Leinster schools league/cup 2015/2016 senior&junior

brokenhooker

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

I think both of them are back next year.

O'Sullivan will stay at full-back next year as I think the other 9 (Cagney?) is back next year as well. Anyway, I'd like to seem him stay at 15 as while he's undersized, he's excellent with ball in hand.

I'd presume Patterson will be back at 9 as I think he only moved to nine as a result of the injuries to O'Brien and Kilgallen which meant Blackrock needed shuffle their backline.

Both are back next year. Cagney is too, expect him to be the leinster schools 9.

funtime93

1. Kelleher (Michaels)
2. Maher(Roscrea)
3. Murphy(Roscrea)
4.Ryan (Blackrock)
5.Dunne(Michaels)
6.Fitzpatrick(Michaels)
7.Kearney(Belvo)
8.De Jongh(Belvo)
9.Kavanagh(Roscrea)
10.Hawkshaw(Belvo)
11.Kelly(Michaels)
12.Tynan(Roscrea)
13.Mullin(Blackrock)
14.McKeown (Belvo)
15.O'Sullivan(Belvo)

DV3

funtime93 wrote: »

1. Kelleher (Michaels)
2. Maher(Roscrea)
3. Murphy(Roscrea)
4.Ryan (Blackrock)
5.Dunne(Michaels)
6.Fitzpatrick(Michaels)
7.Kearney(Belvo)
8.De Jongh(Belvo)
9.Kavanagh(Roscrea)
10.Hawkshaw(Belvo)
11.Kelly(Michaels)
12.Tynan(Roscrea)
13.Mullin(Blackrock)
14.McKeown (Belvo)
15.O'Sullivan(Belvo)

Milne for Murphy, Jennings for Tynan and I'd agree with

DV3

funtime93 wrote: »

1. Kelleher (Michaels)
2. Maher(Roscrea)
3. Murphy(Roscrea)
4.Ryan (Blackrock)
5.Dunne(Michaels)
6.Fitzpatrick(Michaels)
7.Kearney(Belvo)
8.De Jongh(Belvo)
9.Kavanagh(Roscrea)
10.Hawkshaw(Belvo)
11.Kelly(Michaels)
12.Tynan(Roscrea)
13.Mullin(Blackrock)
14.McKeown (Belvo)
15.O'Sullivan(Belvo)

Milne for Murphy, Jennings for Tynan and I'd agree with that. Argument could be made for Doris as well, though it would be hard to choose whom he replaces between De Jongh and Fitzpatrick. Kearney stays regardless.

Islander13

How many of the Belvo team are back next year? 9,10,15.... Any others?

DV3

Islander13 wrote: »

How many of the Belvo team are back next year? 9,10,15.... Any others?

11,7 as well as 4 forwards who were on the bench for the final. Should be contenders again next year but can't see them being as good as they were this time out.

DV3

DV3 wrote: »

11,7 as well as 4 forwards who were on the bench for the final. Should be contenders again next year but can't see them being as good as they were this time out.

Belvo very likely to be very good again as, as other posters have said, it was more about a complete team performance with excellent offensive and defensive execution than a lot of standout players. superbly coached.

DV3

glasso wrote: »

Belvo very likely to be very good again as, as other posters have said, it was more about a complete team performance with excellent offensive and defensive execution than a lot of standout players. superbly coached.

Oh don't get me wrong, I certainly think they could go on to win it, coaching team have done a fantastic job. But it'll be interesting to see how they cope with an almost entirely new pack, as well as without Jennings and McKeown, both of whom have started for the last 3 years.

DV3

Here's a question, now that it's all said and done, any players stand out for a possible sub-academy/academy place in the near future?

brokenhooker

DV3 wrote: »

Here's a question, now that it's all said and done, any players stand out for a possible sub-academy/academy place in the near future?

No one will join the full leinster academy straight from school.

Some standout 6th years:

Ronan Kelleher(Prop/Hooker - St.Michaels)
Oisin Dowling(Lock - St. Michaels)
Caelan Doris(Backrow - Blackrock)
Tom De Jongh(Backrow - Belvedere)
Keith Kavanagh(Scrumhalf - Roscrea)
Conor Dean(Outhalf - Blackrock)
Conor Jennings(Centre/Outhalf - Belvedere)
Jack Kelly(Fullback/Centre/Wing - St. Michaels)
Jordan Larmour(Wing - St. Andrews)
Michael Silvester(Fullback - Clongowes)
Alan Tynan(Fullback/Outhalf - Roscrea)

RugbyRugby2016

Leinster won't be giving any full academy places to players just finishing school now.

Ryan, Porter, Deegan, Power (although being injured again might mean he misses out) would be some of the players who'd be in the running for an academy place. Ryan a certainty, obviously

RugbyRugby2016

brokenhooker wrote: »

No one will join the full academy straight from school.

Some standout 6th years:

Ronan Kelleher(Prop/Hooker - St.Michaels)
Oisin Dowling(Lock - St. Michaels)
Caelan Doris(Backrow - Blackrock)
Tom De Jongh(Backrow - Belvedere)
Keith Kavanagh(Scrumhalf - Roscrea)
Conor Dean(Outhalf - Blackrock)
Conor Jennings(Centre/Outhalf - Belvedere)
Jack Kelly(Fullback/Centre/Wing - St. Michaels)
Jordan Larmour(Wing - St. Andrews)
Michael Silvester(Fullback - Clongowes)
Alan Tynan(Fullback/Outhalf - Roscrea)

Any idea how big the sub-academy is?

brokenhooker

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

Any idea how big the sub-academy is?

It's complicated and varies year on year but around 20 lads will be involved between the different levels. The best of the under-20 squad and the best of the u19 squad who are out of school.

its_phil

brokenhooker wrote: »

No one will join the full academy straight from school.

Some standout 6th years:

Ronan Kelleher(Prop/Hooker - St.Michaels)
Oisin Dowling(Lock - St. Michaels)
Caelan Doris(Backrow - Blackrock)
Tom De Jongh(Backrow - Belvedere)
Keith Kavanagh(Scrumhalf - Roscrea)
Conor Dean(Outhalf - Blackrock)
Conor Jennings(Centre/Outhalf - Belvedere)
Jack Kelly(Fullback/Centre/Wing - St. Michaels)
Jordan Larmour(Wing - St. Andrews)
Michael Silvester(Fullback - Clongowes)
Alan Tynan(Fullback/Outhalf - Roscrea)

Depends which academy it is.

brokenhooker

its_phil wrote: »

Depends which academy it is.

True I could see Connacht trying to bring in all the Roscrea 6th years regardless of what province they played for at underage level, much like Tim Carroll and Rory Moloney.

I'd be surprised if Dylan Murphy & Fineen Wycherly didn't stick with Munster. Wouldn't be surprised if Keith Kavanagh and Alan Tynan were poached by Connacht, and Munster will liekly be after Tynan too. Although Leinster will try to keep them both. Connacht also could try poach Aaron Browne from Leinster u19 aswell.
Then those already with Connacht will obviously be involved with their sub/full academy, Maher, Meagher, Diffley, Hastings, etc.

They will make a run at Caelan Doris too seeing as he is from Mayo.

its_phil

brokenhooker wrote: »

True I could see Connacht trying to bring in all the Roscrea 6th years regardless of what province they played for at underage level, much like Tim Carroll and Rory Moloney.

I'd be surprised if Dylan Murphy & Fineen Wycherly didn't stick with Munster. Wouldn't be surprised if Keith Kavanagh and Alan Tynan were poached by Connacht, and Munster will liekly be after Tynan too. Although Leinster will try to keep them both. Connacht also could try poach Aaron Browne from Leinster u19 aswell.
Then those already with Connacht will obviously be involved with their sub/full academy, Maher, Meagher, Diffley, Hastings, etc.

They will make a run at Caelan Doris too seeing as he is from Mayo.

It's not poaching if Leinster/Munster/Ulster don't see any value in an academy contract for the player next season. Also, I have no idea why free agents out of school can be possibly poached. It's a professional game from here after and college is a big dictator in these decisions.

RugbyRugby2016

its_phil wrote: »

It's not poaching if Leinster/Munster/Ulster don't see any value in an academy contract for the player next season. Also, I have no idea why free agents out of school can be possibly poached. It's a professional game from here after and college is a big dictator in these decisions.

I suppose it's poaching in the same way English football clubs come in and sign young players who were development was started (but not completed) by other clubs.

I've no problem with another province signing a player from another province if they aren't offered a place in the sub-academy coming out of school, but I wouldn't want provinces to be forced to offer full academy places straight out of school just to stop these players going to another province.

The case of Nick Timoney going to Ulster was a good example of how it should work. Was in the Leinster sub-academy the year after school and then moved to Ulster when he didn't get a full academy place.

errlloyd

I'm glad there is competition to sign players right out of school. Leinster don't need to be too worried, they can just let the players go off to the Nigel Carolan and Pat Lam school of rugby and once they're fully developed international class players we can sign them.

brokenhooker

its_phil wrote: »

It's not poaching if Leinster/Munster/Ulster don't see any value in an academy contract for the player next season. Also, I have no idea why free agents out of school can be possibly poached. It's a professional game from here after and college is a big dictator in these decisions.

it's poaching, it's allowed and has worked quite well for Connacht so no need to get so defensive.

If they can convince a leinster or munster underage player to join their academy then they are doing a good job, it's upto the leinster or munster to convince them to stay with their home province.

Given Leinster are trying to make players do a year in the sub-academy before joining the academy it's certainly smart of Connacht to come in and try and poach those players who are impatient or feel like they are more valued by Connacht. As I said that may work on Keith Kavanagh, Alan Tynan or Aaron Browne, all of whom are not sure things to make the Leinster academy. I doubt it will work on Dylan Murphy or Fineen Wycherly who are both 1st choice for Munster u19.

Tynan's future in particular could easily be with Tipp GAA and even if he stuck with rugby he is far from a sure thing to be 1st choice for Leinster u20.
Kavanagh has never played an interpro for Leinster although he was involved with the u19 squad last summer.
Browne could be tempted away with the promise of playing uu20 rugby, as he is unlikely to skip to that level for Leinster next season.

If I had to guess Kavanagh will join Connacht, Tynan will play GAA & Browne will stick with Leinster.

brokenhooker

Munster wise:

Calvin Nash(Wing) - Crescent
Daniel Hurley(Wing/Fullback) - Crescent
Alex McHenry(Centre) - CBC
Conor Fitzgerald(Outhalf)- Ard Scoil
Jack Lyons(Scrumhalf) - Crescent
Alan Fitzgerald(Backrow) - Castletroy
Gavin Coombes(Lock) - Bandon
Fineen Wycherly(Lock) - Roscrea
Mark O'Mara(Hooker) - Castletroy
Dylan Murphy(Prop) - Roscrea

its_phil

brokenhooker wrote: »

it's poaching, it's allowed and has worked quite well for Connacht so no need to get so defensive.

If they can convince a leinster or munster underage player to join their academy then they are doing a good job, it's upto the leinster or munster to convince them to stay with their home province.

Given Leinster are trying to make players do a year in the sub-academy before joining the academy it's certainly smart of Connacht to come in and try and poach those players who are impatient or feel like they are more valued by Connacht. As I said that may work on Keith Kavanagh, Alan Tynan or Aaron Browne, all of whom are not sure things to make the Leinster academy. I doubt it will work on Dylan Murphy or Fineen Wycherly who are both 1st choice for Munster u19.

Tynan's future in particular could easily be with Tipp GAA and even if he stuck with rugby he is far from a sure thing to be 1st choice for Leinster u20.
Kavanagh has never played an interpro for Leinster although he was involved with the u19 squad last summer.
Browne could be tempted away with the promise of playing uu20 rugby, as he is unlikely to skip to that level for Leinster next season.

If I had to guess Kavanagh will join Connacht, Tynan will play GAA & Browne will stick with Leinster.

I'm not being defensive. I'm merely pointing out the error in using the word poaching. I don't care where players go but if Munster/Leinster/Ulster/Connacht don't deem a player good enough for an academy/sub-academy contract next season then why should any of those academies feel so entitled to make the player sit on his arse for year in the hope of getting one next year and the other province who want him now should back off. The academies don't do that either and know well it's a case of s*** or get off the pot.

This is a pro game, not schools.

brokenhooker

its_phil wrote: »

I'm not being defensive. I'm merely pointing out the error in using the word poaching. I don't care where players go but if Munster/Leinster/Ulster/Connacht don't deem a player good enough for an academy/sub-academy contract next season then why should any of those academies feel so entitled to make the player sit on his arse for year in the hope of getting one next year and the other province who want him now should back off. The academies don't do that either and know well it's a case of s*** or get off the pot.

This is a pro game, not schools.

What are you getting so angry about?

I never said they should feel entitled, I also never said a player wouldn't be right to move province if he thought it was the best move for him.

A player may only be offered a leinster sub academy spot next season after he has played in the interpro's, he might get a better offer from Connacht either to join their full academy or skip u19 level and play connacht u20's and have a guaranteed sub-academy place.

They would be taking him out of the leinster underage setup, and doing this by offering him a better deal to move province before his home province is ready to give him the same. That's smart way for Connacht to try and get talented players from Leinster or Munster to join Connacht. It's not against any rule and certainly fair in professional sports. Happened last summer and will likely happen again this summer, it mostly appears to happen with players who go to Roscrea, for whatever reason.

If one province offers a player more opportunity because they value him higher and the player decides to move province then the home province can't really complain. Although i'm sure there would be bad blood over it all, as I'm very sure no province likes seeing players they invested in being taken by a rival province.

Kavanagh is the most obvious candidate to move, but wouldn't surprise me if any Roscrea lad joined Connacht.

its_phil

brokenhooker wrote: »

What are you getting so angry about?

I never said they should feel entitled, I also never said a player wouldn't be right to move province if he thought it was the best move for him.

A player may only be offered a leinster sub academy spot next season after he has played in the interpro's, he might get a better offer from Connacht either to join their full academy or skip u19 level and play connacht u20's and have a guaranteed sub-academy place.

They would be taking him out of the leinster underage setup, and doing this by offering him a better deal to move province before his home province is ready to give him the same. That's smart way for Connacht to try and get talented players from Leinster or Munster to join Connacht. It's not against any rule and certainly fair in professional sports. Happened last summer and will likely happen again this summer, it mostly appears to happen with players who go to Roscrea, for whatever reason.

If one province offers a player more opportunity because they value him higher and the player decides to move province then the home province can't really complain. Although i'm sure there would be bad blood over it all, as I'm very sure no province likes seeing players they invested in being taken by a rival province.

Kavanagh is the most obvious candidate to move, but wouldn't surprise me if any Roscrea lad joined Connacht.

Christ, there's a fine difference between anger, defensive and someone disagreeing with you. Try recognise the difference or you're going to be accusing every second person on the rugby forum of being angry and defensive for disagreeing with you.

brokenhooker

RugbyRugby2016 wrote: »

I suppose it's poaching in the same way English football clubs come in and sign young players who were development was started (but not completed) by other clubs.

I've no problem with another province signing a player from another province if they aren't offered a place in the sub-academy coming out of school, but I wouldn't want provinces to be forced to offer full academy places straight out of school just to stop these players going to another province.

The case of Nick Timoney going to Ulster was a good example of how it should work. Was in the Leinster sub-academy the year after school and then moved to Ulster when he didn't get a full academy place.

Ideally provinces wouldn't poach players, but Connacht don't produce enough of their own plus they have such a strong influence at Roscrea.

wp_rathead

Is that not unfair on the player to have to accept a 1 Year Sub-Academy spot if another Province would offer a 3 Year Academy?

brokenhooker

wp_rathead wrote: »

Is that not unfair on the player to have to accept a 1 Year Sub-Academy spot if another Province would offer a 3 Year Academy?

They don't have to accept it, they have a choice. Several connacht academy players chose the 3 year deal. sometimes it comes downt to starting interpro games, a player may be 3rd choice at Leinster but 1st choice at Connacht.

Hagz

You are all basically agreeing with one another.....

Tarf1234

Hagz wrote: »

You are all basically agreeing with one another.....

Was thinking the exact same thing... Very odd 'argument'

brokenhooker

Hagz wrote: »

You are all basically agreeing with one another.....

im not sure, I'm not in favour of provinces poaching other provinces underage players, but realise it's going to happen.

he seems to have no problem with it.

The Lost Sheep

brokenhooker wrote: »

im not sure, I'm not in favour of provinces poaching other provinces underage players, but realise it's going to happen.

he seems to have no problem with it.

When you keep using the word 'poach' of course people will have issues with that.

Connacht final tomorrow. Garbally beat the Jes when they played in league earlier in the season. And its first time Jes are in final since 2010...
If Jes win they go into 2nd place outright and 1 ahead of the Bish who theyre tied 12 wins apiece. Garbally have 45 titles altogether...