Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

Options
1…6791112…29

Comments

  • Options
    #242
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    walshb wrote: »
    Making a threat like he did last night is IMO bullying. It's definitely threatening.

    It could be that Billy Walsh was bullied out of his job.


  • Options
    #243
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    gordongekko wrote: »
    It could be that Billy Walsh was bullied out of his job.

    Like I said, its a separate issue. Why are people conflating this?

    I have sympathy for Walsh, and if I had to decide on who was more right, I would probabaly lean with Walsh here. That is, of course, based off not knowing the full story. If the IABA are in the wrong it's a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

    Now, this latest move by the ISC is just plain wrong.


  • Options
    #244
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    walshb wrote: »
    Like I said, its a separate issue. Why are people conflating this?

    I have sympathy for Walsh, and if I had to decide on who was more right, I would probabaly lean with Walsh here. That is, of course, based off not knowing the full story. If the IABA are in the wrong it's a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

    Now, this latest move by the ISC is just plain wrong.

    They have a duty to protect public money and if the iaba won't follow through on agreements they are correct in threatening to withdraw funding


  • Options
    #245
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    walshb wrote: »
    Like I said, its a separate issue. Why are people conflating this?

    I have sympathy for Walsh, and if I had to decide on who was more right, I would probabaly lean with Walsh here. That is, of course, based off not knowing the full story. If the IABA are in the wrong it's a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

    Now, this latest move by the ISC is just plain wrong.

    It's completely within their remit to oversee how money is spent and pull funding if they feel it's not being spent wisely.
    Performance Planning is the mechanism that the Irish Sports Council (ISC) uses to invest in High Performance National Governing Bodies of Sport. Its purpose is to drive performance and development of sports and athletes in the High Performance system to achieve consistent success at the World level. It enables the ISC and the Institute of Sport (IIS) to determine the medal potential of individual sports and athletes. It provides the underpinning evidence for investment decisions to be made where resources are targeted at sports best places to succeed at World level. It is the basis for the subsequent oversight of investment in ensuring that a return on investment is delivered for public funds. - See more at: http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/High_Performance/High_Performance_Unit/Performance_Planning/#sthash.7XyZ1I5q.dpuf

    Everything a sport's governing body does with HP money is subject to scrutiny and the ISC have final say. If the NGB doesn't want to conform they don't have to take the money.

    The ISC seem to feel that keeping Billy Walsh on board is the best way to ensure an optimal medal haul and are within their remit to insist that he be accommodated.


  • Options
    #246
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    The Sports Council is taking the last option open to it, the nuclear option. It's not the first time boxing has had this threat over it and I think Athletics Ireland actually had its funding withdrawn a few years back when there was open warfare within the board. I'd have some reservations about the tactic, but without knowing the extent of what agreements were made and then reneged upon, it's silly to be up in arms about it and labelling them bullies or whatever. When it receives funding the IABA, like every other NGB, signs up to a code of governance upon which that funding is conditional. If there are issues and questions to answer, then it has every right to get involved although not everybody will like it.

    The timing stinks but there has to be public accountability now. Too much happening in a vacuum.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #247
    slow
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭slow


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    The Sports Council is taking the last option open to it, the nuclear option. It's not the first time boxing has had this threat over it and I think Athletics Ireland actually had its funding withdrawn a few years back when there was open warfare within the board. I'd have some reservations about the tactic, but without knowing the extent of what agreements were made and then reneged upon, it's silly to be up in arms about it and labelling them bullies or whatever. When it receives funding the IABA, like every other NGB, signs up to a code of governance upon which that funding is conditional. If there are issues and questions to answer, then it has every right to get involved although not everybody will like it.

    The timing stinks but there has to be public accountability now. Too much happening in a vacuum.

    Swim Ireland also had funding withdrawn for a period until certain conditions were met. This is a last resort. It would be ironic if Team Billy Walsh walked away and the persons who were causing him grief also ended up out the door. No winners there.


  • Options
    #248
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    slow wrote: »
    Swim Ireland also had funding withdrawn for a period until certain conditions were met. This is a last resort. It would be ironic if Team Billy Walsh walked away and the persons who were causing him grief also ended up out the door. No winners there.

    That would be a mess. I have a little sympathy for the bloody U.S authorities in all of this....;)


  • Options
    #249
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,060 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Threatening to burn the entire house down because your pissed off someone changed the colour on the kitchen wall is ridiculous tbh.

    Threatening to pull funding from the IABA is not productive at all. I am as sick as anyone that Billy is gone, I think the IABA have plenty to answer and explain in this debacle, and hearing Billy on the radio the other night was gutwrenching. From what we know, as in what is in the public domain it appears to be a disgraceful situation to be allowed to happen but threatening to pull funding from one of the more successful areas of Irish sport and a source of great pride to many over the years is no less a disgrace.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Options
    #250
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Threatening to burn the entire house down because your pissed off someone changed the colour on the kitchen wall is ridiculous tbh.

    Threatening to pull funding from the IABA is not productive at all. I am as sick as anyone that Billy is gone, I think the IABA have plenty to answer and explain in this debacle, and hearing Billy on the radio the other night was gutwrenching. From what we know, as in what is in the public domain it appears to be a disgraceful situation to be allowed to happen but threatening to pull funding from one of the more successful areas of Irish sport and a source of great pride to many over the years is no less a disgrace.

    I don't necessarily disagree with this. We need to be told why they are threatening to pull funding, otherwise it just feeds the public paranoia. All this is happening in public, yet the underlying causes all remain hidden and secret. That's doing nobody any favours.


  • Options
    #251
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    I don't necessarily disagree with this. We need to be told why they are threatening to pull funding, otherwise it just feeds the public paranoia. All this is happening in public, yet the underlying causes all remain hidden and secret. That's doing nobody any favours.

    I think we can read betwen the lines as to why they are threatening to pull funding

    Either way, it's a disgarce that they are going so OTT about this. It's cracking a nut with a sledgehammer approach. It's wrong, and it's pure bully boy tactics.

    Whether or not the ISC have the entitlement or right to do it is irrelevant. It is a step too far, and it does nothing but many many great people in the sport of boxing.

    I am actually leaning more against the ISC in thsi than anyone else.

    I stand by my virew that Billy himself, if he has any character, and I believe he really does, any love for the sport, and I believe he really does, should come out against this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #252
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    There are many great people in boxing- there are a few cossited people too whose only interest is themselves


  • Options
    #253
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    efb wrote: »
    There are many great people in boxing- there are a few cossited people too whose only interest is themselves

    That applies to almost any organisation with people. Punishing the many for the perceived-possible failings of the few is wrong here.


  • Options
    #254
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    walshb wrote: »
    That applies to almost any organisation with people. Punishing the many for the perceived-possible failings of the few is wrong here.

    Well they need to get their House in Order. Kieran Mulvey is a respected public official btw/ not a bully


  • Options
    #255
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    If the IABA is punished I lay the blame with the people that renaged on the agreement without bringing it to the official meeting

    It won't be Billy Walsh or Kieren Mulveys fault.


  • Options
    #256
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    walshb wrote: »
    I think we can read betwen the lines as to why they are threatening to pull funding

    Either way, it's a disgarce that they are going so OTT about this. It's cracking a nut with a sledgehammer approach. It's wrong, and it's pure bully boy tactics.

    Whether or not the ISC have the entitlement or right to do it is irrelevant. It is a step too far, and it does nothing but many many great people in the sport of boxing.

    I am actually leaning more against the ISC in thsi than anyone else.

    I stand by my virew that Billy himself, if he has any character, and I believe he really does, any love for the sport, and I believe he really does, should come out against this.

    They have a duty to protect public money. You fall to realize that the iaba have broken an agreement with the isc so the blame is wholly with them and not the isc.


  • Options
    #257
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    gordongekko wrote: »
    They have a duty to protect public money. You fall to realize that the iaba have broken an agreement with the isc so the blame is wholly with them and not the isc.

    Are you privvy to the intricate details of the "agreement." Was it legally binding? Did the IABA break any rules here? I don't know that much as regards the agreement in detail.

    And, no matter what, the ISCs threat is still way OTT and wrong!


  • Options
    #258
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    walshb wrote: »
    I think we can read betwen the lines as to why they are threatening to pull funding

    Either way, it's a disgarce that they are going so OTT about this. It's cracking a nut with a sledgehammer approach. It's wrong, and it's pure bully boy tactics.

    Whether or not the ISC have the entitlement or right to do it is irrelevant. It is a step too far, and it does nothing but many many great people in the sport of boxing.

    I am actually leaning more against the ISC in thsi than anyone else.

    I stand by my virew that Billy himself, if he has any character, and I believe he really does, any love for the sport, and I believe he really does, should come out against this.

    What do you mean "read between the lines"? It's fair enough calling others out here for making assumptions based on supposition, but then you just go make a fresh set of assumptions yourself that seems to suit your own particular take on things. I respect your position in some ways, but that kind of sums up the whole shaky foundation of it for me.


  • Options
    #259
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    walshb wrote: »
    Are you privvy to the intricate details of the "agreement." Was it legally binding? Did the IABA break any rules here? I don't know that much as regards the agreement in detail.

    And, no matter what, the ISCs threat is still way OTT and wrong!

    Public money must be protected. If the iaba don't want to follow through with agreements then they shouldn't get public money. To condone this and blaming the isc is just plain wrong.

    Public funding comes with conditions. If the iaba aren't happy with those conditions then they won't get funding. It's as simple as that.


  • Options
    #260
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    What do you mean "read between the lines"? It's fair enough calling others out here for making assumptions based on supposition, but then you just go make a fresh set of assumptions yourself that seems to suit your own particular take on things. I respect your position in some ways, but that kind of sums up the whole shaky foundation of it for me.

    Read between the lines that the ISC issued this threat because they are wanting Walsh to stay, and if that is not met, then they will pull funding. Actually, it's not even reading between lines, that is pretty much it.

    Anyway, this is being done to death. Hand on heart I can meet people half way here. It seems one side, the Walsh side is so very much anti the IABA in all of this. That's what's puzzling. I have sympathy for Billy, and I would probabaly believe his side more than theirs. I reckon he has probabaly gotten a rough ride within the HP. That belief in now way condones the ISCs recent threat. That is out there all on its own as bad!


  • Options
    #261
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    gordongekko wrote: »
    Public funding comes with conditions. If the iaba aren't happy with those conditions then they won't get funding. It's as simple as that.

    Yes, our way or the highway it seems with ISC. But, if they have that power and influence then they can get away with it I suppose.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #262
    Utdfan20titles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭Utdfan20titles


    walshb wrote: »
    I have sympathy for Billy, and I would probabaly believe his side more than theirs.

    Newsflash:

    walshb believes bwalsh


  • Options
    #263
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Exactly the IABA are free to seek funding from any source. If they want Government money, they will be held accountable to how that money is spent.

    Kieran Mulvey is currently giving them both barrels. He says: "Walsh could not engage with OCI, ISC or the media without written permission of the CEO - Fergal Carruth. Imagine Joe Schmidt being told he had to contact Philip Browne every time he wanted to announce a team. This is unconscionable."

    "We sought a meeting with IABA, I got so upset at it that at the end I had to ask them if they wanted to keep Billy Walsh at all. It was the most unconvincing 'Yes' I have ever heard in my career"

    And where is Fergal Carruth in all this? Why was he seeking to limit Walsh's contact with the ISC and the media? Why is he in hiding? Why won't he stand behind or explain his decisions? Sending out your brother to speak for you if you're CEO is not good enough. The buck stops with the CEO and Carruth has gone to ground.


  • Options
    #264
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, our way or the highway it seems with ISC. But, if they have that power and influence then they can get away with it I suppose.

    It's seems to be the iaba way and to hell with agreements and we'll spend public money however we want.

    That's not a situation that can be allowed to happen.


  • Options
    #265
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    walshb wrote: »
    Read between the lines that the ISC issued this threat because they are wanting Walsh to stay, and if that is not met, then they will pull funding. Actually, it's not even reading between lines, that is pretty much it.

    Anyway, this is being done to death. Hand on heart I can meet people half way here. It seems one side, the Walsh side is so very much anti the IABA in all of this. That's what's puzzling. I have sympathy for Billy, and I would probabaly believe his side more than theirs. I reckon he has probabaly gotten a rough ride within the HP. That belief in now way condones the ISCs recent threat. That is out there all on its own as bad!

    You said it yourself many posts ago that all this is bigger than Billy Walsh and that was very true. Just because a system is churning out medals and looking healthy on the surface doesn't mean it isn't ailing within. Gerry Hussey, a HP insider but one of those I would listen to, says it's high time the structures of elite sport in Ireland were looked at. I would fully endorse this. The days of professional units like the boxing HP being answerable - or allegedly undermined - by amateur administrators should probably be over. If you follow worldwide trends in top level sport, I believe you'd understand this. But then, people will say sure haven't we always done it like this, won't we be grand? Change is always painful and rarely smooth, so who knows what the future will bring?


  • Options
    #266
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    super_furry wrote: »

    Kieran Mulvey is currently giving them both barrels. He says: "Walsh could not engage with OCI, ISC or the media without written permission of the CEO - Fergal Carruth. Imagine Joe Schmidt being told he had to contact Philip Browne every time he wanted to announce a team. This is unconscionable."

    .

    What is so bad/restrictive with this? Are you implying that the IABA should not be allowed implement any policies?

    Would this policy/restriction be grounds for the ISC to cut funding?


  • Options
    #267
    Ctrl Alt Delete
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Ctrl Alt Delete


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, our way or the highway it seems with ISC. But, if they have that power and influence then they can get away with it I suppose.

    Exactly their way or the highway after all they are the State body that gives or takes away the IABS status as a governing body.

    Their job is to promote and protect Irish sport and that's exactly what they are doing here so they can't be faulted here.

    When you add in the fact that agreements were reached and then suddenly the day before the IABA wanted to change everything then the ISC are double in he right.


  • Options
    #268
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    And last post on the ISC. Yes, I agree their role should be questioned, they have to be accountable too. However, since its inception in 1999 I believe there have been two instances where an NGB had its funding withdrawn - athletics and swimming as mentioned earlier - so it's fair to say it isn't an option that is likely taken. I'd like to hear more of their reasons for it, but wouldn't be so quick to label them "bully boys". That sounds like something you'd roar in across the table in a committee room.


  • Options
    #269
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    walshb wrote: »
    What is so bad/restrictive with this? Are you implying that the IABA should not be allowed implement any policies?

    Oh come off it. How do you conflate having to ask Fergal Carruth for permission to do a TV interview to not being allowed to implement policy?


  • Options
    #270
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,943 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    super_furry wrote: »
    Oh come of it. How do you conflate having to ask Fergal Carruth for permission to do a TV interview to not being allowed to implement policy?

    If Billy is acting/being represented on behalf of the IABA or doing an interview concering-representing the IABA then I don't find the policy at all odd. Of course the IABA should know of it and sign off on it. It's proper order. Billy signed up for the position. He must have read the terms and conditions. When was this policy implemented?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #271
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    walshb wrote: »
    If Billy is acting/being represented on behalf of the IABA or doing an interview concering-representing the IABA then I don't find the policy at all odd. Billy signed up for the position. He must have read the terms and conditions. When was this policy implemented?

    And he wanted that renegotiated in his new contract


Advertisement