Irish Rail - Risk of Strike Action

GM228

Hollister11 wrote: »

Dublin Bus are definitely running ?

Yes and I'm guessing some DB customers arn't going to be happy because I can see services packed to the brim and leaving people behind as 1000s of rail passengers will attempt to use DB.

GM228

Hollister11

GM228 wrote: »

Yes and I'm guessing some DB customers arn't going to be happy because I can see services packed to the brim and leaving people behind as 1000s of rail passengers will attempt to use DB.

GM228

I don't have to get a bus until 9:45 so hopefully i avoid the extra customers.

Hollister11

Hollister11 wrote: »

I don't have to get a bus until 9:45 so hopefully i avoid the extra customers.

The knock on affects of the strike are likely to last several hours after 9AM as trains & drivers will be in the wrong places.

Hollister11

Deleted User wrote: »

The knock on affects of the strike are likely to last several hours after 9AM as trains & drivers will be in the wrong places.

I'll see how it goes, once i get into college i don't care.

WomanSkirtFan8

Hollister11 wrote: »

Strike going ahead, drivers have lost an opportunity for an 8% wage increase. Any future deal will be worse as tomorrows losses need to be recouped.

quite possibily. Not to mention the fact that IE are apparently loosing about one million euro per month as well in addition to possible fines by the NTA. That is in no way sustainable in the long run.

It's going to be absolute chaos in the morning. From Greystones alone we're going to loose 8 DARTs between 6am and 9:30am alone,as well as the 09:23am Rosslare To Connolly and 10:30am Connolly to Rosslare trains.:)

WomanSkirtFan8

Deleted User wrote: »

The knock on affects of the strike are likely to last several hours after 9AM as trains & drivers will be in the wrong places.

Indeed. It's probably going to take until about 4pm tomorrow before things are back to usual.:)

Jamie2k9

So did Irish Rail come down on unions and force 05.20 (Westport), 05.30 (Galway) and 05.45 (Sligo) to operate alongside all other services as those 3 were not supposed to be running....

8% pay rise is a joke and unions not allowing members vote in it is just as bad.

myshirt

Need to identify the troublemakers here and weed them out. Cut the pension rights. No severance pay. If any brave hero wants to step forward after that, let him do it and suffer the same fate. This socialism has gone too far.

Itssoeasy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So did Irish Rail come down on unions and force 05.20 (Westport), 05.30 (Galway) and 05.45 (Sligo) to operate alongside all other services as those 3 were not supposed to be running....

8% pay rise is a joke and unions not allowing members vote in it is just as bad.

Well the strike doesn't start until 6am so trains can leave before that time I'm assuming.

Jamie2k9

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well the strike doesn't start until 6am so trains can leave before that time I'm assuming.

Yes they can but those services were excluded when they first announced services departing before 6 am.

Need to identify the troublemakers here and weed them out. Cut the pension rights. No severance pay. If any brave hero wants to step forward after that, let him do it and suffer the same fate. This socialism has gone too far.

If the past is anything to go by a certain "southern" station tend to be bunch that don't like to compromise.

At this stage it's time they hire new drivers and have them on stand by as strikes are so frequent I would happy pay the additional costs via tickets if I knew current drivers wouldn't get an extra penny.

end of the road

myshirt wrote: »

Need to identify the troublemakers here and weed them out. Cut the pension rights. No severance pay. If any brave hero wants to step forward after that, let him do it and suffer the same fate. This socialism has gone too far.

bad news.
1. this has nothing to do with socialism, just bad industrial relations.
2. there are no trouble makers.
3. your nonsense suggestions would lead a couple of hours of disruption into weeks or months for what? make you feel better? drivel. no thanks.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

At this stage it's time they hire new drivers and have them on stand by as strikes are so frequent I would happy pay the additional costs via tickets if I knew current drivers wouldn't get an extra penny.

where are these drivers coming from. i'm not paying more for extra drivers sitting around just for the odd strike.

Mycro

alcaline wrote: »

It must not be a requirement of the contract drawn up by the NTA.
Resources are spread thin, so why do something the NTA don't deem necessary?

I think this comment perfectly sums up the attitude of most Irish Rail staff. It is obvious that they don't consider customer communication to be of any importance. Devnull has elaborated in some detail on this in his posts. Customers must come first in any company. In Irish Rail, they do not.

As a simple example, I have countless times heard "All services are delayed by up to 30 minutes." What help is this information to anyone? If a DART runs every 10 minutes for example, even with a 30 min delay to all of them, I would expect one within 10 minutes unless it's the first train in the morning. It's a lazy announcement that saves someone the hassle of giving proper information on the approx time of the next northbound, southbound, Dundalk, Maynooth, etc. train. They just couldn't be bothered, and as alkaline says above, they don't believe they should be bother because it's not in their contract,

Because Irish Rail must continue in existence to provide a service, staff can happily rest on their laurels with no repercussions for poor service. This is the opposite of the private sector. And let's not get into the pay argument because private sector pay is generally lower for jobs that require more skill and training than "it's a few months before we're allowed drive a train".

end of the road

Mycro wrote: »

they don't believe they should be bother because it's not in their contract

not much different to any rail company who is contracted to do something. absolutely information should be part of a contract.

Mycro wrote: »

This is the opposite of the private sector.

not in the rail industry. you can be sure where private operators run subsidized/contracted services information provision is part of those contracts. only a fool wouldn't ensure otherwise.

Mycro wrote: »

let's not get into the pay argument because private sector pay is generally lower for jobs that require more skill and training than "it's a few months before we're allowed drive a train".

yeah, shur you only do a few months and you can drive a train. shur begorra its like driving a car. i think you will find that drivers pay is around the similar pay mark of drivers in the uk, who's rail services are operated by the private sector. infact, i believe drivers there can earn more depending on the circumstances.

Mycro

I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me

Infini

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

quite possibily. Not to mention the fact that IE are apparently loosing about one million euro per month as well in addition to possible fines by the NTA. That is in no way sustainable in the long run.

Theyre artificial losses tbh. Think about it. If the service levels havent been cut but the subvention has then that is clearly not sustainable. Eventually it gets to the point where the taxpayer is gonna have to cover those losses one way or another because theyre in essence unpaid bills By the taxpayer. If it was a private enterprise then services wouldve been cut but they havent. Its a semi state or specifically an INFRASTRUCTURE for getting people around that isnt being maintained and this strike is a result of management ignoring the issues AND the goverment deliberately underfunding the service.

End of the day its a pain that people get inconvenienced like this but lets be honest here. There wasnt a strike in 12 years in the rail till this CEO came along and since then theres been not one but TWO strikes in the space of a year! These issues couldve been avoided if people in management AND the DoT had been paying attention in the 1st place and not acting the bollocks.

And as for the 8% thing why would the drivers believe they would get that when they havent been given anything in 8 years except a pay cut and the existing productivity has returned NOTHING. End of the day the drivers agreed to these productivity increases and got nothing for it. Now management wants more but doesnt even pay up for existing ones. Doesnt work that way in any workplace. You break an agreement then noone believes you and you cant get anywhere because of that.

Asmooh

I don't know if the strike did continue or not.. irishrail app still says that the train is going anyway.
because i took the bus 6.05 instead of the train 6.47 so I hope I didn't get up for nothing.

Wild Garlic

I hope those wonderful drivers strike more often, loads of room on the train I'm on now🚊

suicide_circus

I'm on a Dublin Bus on O'Connell St now...not packed at all and neither are other buses I've looked into so far. Traffic a bit heavier but nothing crazy. The electronic noticeboard on my bus stop was wrong so all is as it should be.

LXFlyer

Infini2 wrote: »

Theyre artificial losses tbh. Think about it. If the service levels havent been cut but the subvention has then that is clearly not sustainable. Eventually it gets to the point where the taxpayer is gonna have to cover those losses one way or another because theyre in essence unpaid bills By the taxpayer. If it was a private enterprise then services wouldve been cut but they havent. Its a semi state or specifically an INFRASTRUCTURE for getting people around that isnt being maintained and this strike is a result of management ignoring the issues AND the goverment deliberately underfunding the service.

End of the day its a pain that people get inconvenienced like this but lets be honest here. There wasnt a strike in 12 years in the rail till this CEO came along and since then theres been not one but TWO strikes in the space of a year! These issues couldve been avoided if people in management AND the DoT had been paying attention in the 1st place and not acting the bollocks.

And as for the 8% thing why would the drivers believe they would get that when they havent been given anything in 8 years except a pay cut and the existing productivity has returned NOTHING. End of the day the drivers agreed to these productivity increases and got nothing for it. Now management wants more but doesnt even pay up for existing ones. Doesnt work that way in any workplace. You break an agreement then noone believes you and you cant get anywhere because of that.

You seem to be blindly ignoring the fact that the country has been in a recession and every element of the public sector (and private sector) have had to have pay cuts and cost cutting to try and keep afloat.

In fact most people in the private sector suffered these six years ago - IE didn't implement pay cuts until 2014

More relevantly (subsidy cut or not) the company's finances are simply in an unsustainable position and there isn't money either in government or in the company to pay for this. It is not the government's job to bail IE out - IE have a responsibility to operate the business in as cost efficient a manner as possible.

The jury is out as to whether that is actually happening.

The current CEO will have his own view on that - ultimately he is responsible to the Board and the Minister, and he may be faced with the reality that this is not sustainable, whether you want to hear that or not.

Alf Veedersane

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm on a Dublin Bus on O'Connell St now...not packed at all and neither are other buses I've looked into so far. Traffic a bit heavier but nothing crazy. The electronic noticeboard on my bus stop was wrong so all is as it should be.

Was on Nassau St just before 7. Had three full buses pass before a driver allowed us to cram on.

suicide_circus

The quays aren't the May West!

Infini

lxflyer wrote: »

You seem to be blindly ignoring the fact that the country has been in a recession and every element of the public sector (and private sector) have had to have pay cuts and cost cutting to try and keep afloat.

In fact most people in the private sector suffered these six years ago - IE didn't implement pay cuts until 2014

More relevantly (subsidy cut or not) the company's finances are simply in an unsustainable position and there isn't money either in government or in the company to pay for this. It is not the government's job to bail IE out - IE have a responsibility to operate the business in as cost efficient a manner as possible.

The jury is out as to whether that is actually happening.

The current CEO will have his own view on that - ultimately he is responsible to the Board and the Minister, and he may be faced with the reality that this is not sustainable, whether you want to hear that or not.

There has been cost cutting tho. 2300 jobs have been done away with in the last few years. The staffing is so bad in places its borderline dangerous. The service levels havent been reduced but money to fund them has. To levels below break even levels.

As for the government not having money? They have money they just choose to try and bribe people ahead of an election instead of putting it back into the infrastructure.

End of the day its not just here in transport that strikes are breaking out its in other sectors too and its because everyone is getting fed up with this situation across the board where people are expected to work long hours for low pay.

LXFlyer

Infini2 wrote: »

There has been cost cutting tho. 2300 jobs have been done away with in the last few years. The staffing is so bad in places its borderline dangerous. The service levels havent been reduced but money to fund them has. To levels below break even levels.

As for the government not having money? They have money they just choose to try and bribe people ahead of an election instead of putting it back into the infrastructure.

End of the day its not just here in transport that strikes are breaking out its in other sectors too and its because everyone is getting fed up with this situation across the board where people are expected to work long hours for low pay.

Every company in the country has suffered revenue losses and has had to cut costs and cut pay levels - IE is no different from that, but only managed to implement pay restraint a year ago, which frankly is farcical.

Perhaps if you analyse the company's financial statements, particularly the balance sheet, you might realise the precarious state the company is in. It's not sustainable.

As I said above, it's not the government's job to bail IE out - the company has a responsibility to operate in a cost effective manner.

The budget was hardly a giveaway budget by any means.

With respect I find it a bit rich to be complaining about "low pay" when pay restraint was only agreed to within IE one year ago, six years later than most people in the private sector.

People need to have a reality check here.

GLaDOS

suicide_circus wrote: »

The quays aren't the May West!

Of all the days for their to be a crash :rolleyes: waited half an hour for a bus that was 'due' in 5 minutes

Rezident

Awful service anyway, take this as an opportunity to get fit cycling to work instead of having to rely on irish rails appalling and overpriced "service". After suffering IR and their continual delays and "operational problems" for decades I started cycling the 15km each way instead.

I've been in third world countries with better transport than IR. And it's so expensive here now!

thomasj

suicide_circus wrote: »

The quays aren't the May West!

The quays havent been the may west at all this week. Utter hell getting stuck, the bus lane has been pretty useless.

devnull

Saw a number of trains with Pearse on the front going through with no passengers this morning?

Infini

lxflyer wrote: »

Every company in the country has suffered revenue losses and has had to cut costs and cut pay levels - IE is no different from that, but only managed to implement pay restraint a year ago, which frankly is farcical.

Perhaps if you analyse the company's financial statements, particularly the balance sheet, you might realise the precarious state the company is in. It's not sustainable.

As I said above, it's not the government's job to bail IE out - the company has a responsibility to operate in a cost effective manner.

The budget was hardly a giveaway budget by any means.

With respect I find it a bit rich to be complaining about "low pay" when pay restraint was only agreed to within IE one year ago, six years later than most people in the private sector.

People need to have a reality check here.

Yea people do need a reality check. Its not the responsibility of the government to bail them out? however it IS the responsibility of the government to fund the services. Subvention was cut by 40%. FORTY PERCENT from 2007 onwards. Services were not cut AT ALL. That is not sustainable yet the company is compelled by the government to run these services. Thats why I call these losses artificial. If the services had been cut to save money people would be giving out murder. These same people are the ones whinging about privatisation whenever theres a strike (theres only been TWO of them in the last 10 odd years, TWO with significant notice yet people complain like they strike every week) but these services are the ones that would be gutted anyways if they did try privatisation. End of the day those debts wouldnt exist if the funding was done right but its not. Thus those debts are infact moneys the taxpayer owes the company and if funding is not done in a way to run them down over time the Taxpayer will get hit with the full whack anyways!

This country suffered pay cuts that should never have happened. The country was forced into a bailout and everyone suffered losses for something they shouldnt have. Yet people didnt go out and protest at the time this came along and got walked over. People give out that those at irish rail didnt suffer cuts probably out of jealousy becauss they managed to hold their ground for so long.

As I said people expect staff working these to work for a pittance even though they can be responsible for the lives of up to a 1000 people at a given time. You dont give that kind of responsibity to someone on a low wage.

LXFlyer

Infini2 wrote: »

Yea people do need a reality check. Its not the responsibility of the government to bail them out? however it IS the responsibility of the government to fund the services. Subvention was cut by 40%. FORTY PERCENT from 2007 onwards. Services were not cut AT ALL. That is not sustainable yet the company is compelled by the government to run these services. Thats why I call these losses artificial. If the services had been cut to save money people would be giving out murder. These same people are the ones whinging about privatisation whenever theres a strike (theres only been TWO of them in the last 10 odd years, TWO with significant notice yet people complain like they strike every week) but these services are the ones that would be gutted anyways if they did try privatisation. End of the day those debts wouldnt exist if the funding was done right but its not. Thus those debts are infact moneys the taxpayer owes the company and if funding is not done in a way to run them down over time the Taxpayer will get hit with the full whack anyways!

This country suffered pay cuts that should never have happened. The country was forced into a bailout and everyone suffered losses for something they shouldnt have. Yet people didnt go out and protest at the time this came along and got walked over. People give out that those at irish rail didnt suffer cuts probably out of jealousy becauss they managed to hold their ground for so long.

As I said people expect staff working these to work for a pittance even though they can be responsible for the lives of up to a 1000 people at a given time. You dont give that kind of responsibity to someone on a low wage.

With due respect - train drivers are not paid a pittance. They have a good rate of pay for the responsible job that they do.

Services weren't cut? I must be imagining all those shorter trains going around and the large drop in passenger numbers that happened. Do you seriously expect PSO subsidy to remain constant with a massive drop in passenger numbers?

I'm afraid this post sums it all up perfectly for me - greed and nothing less.

CosmicJay

Infini2 wrote: »

As I said people expect staff working these to work for a pittance even though they can be responsible for the lives of up to a 1000 people at a given time. You dont give that kind of responsibity to someone on a low wage.

Let's not be disingenuous, Irish Rail staff are not paid pittance. After factoring in pension, salary and travel perks they are quote well paid, show me any other job where a person can complete 8-12 weeks of training and get 40k + a year.

There seems to be a disconnect with reality at Irish Rail.