Irish Rail - Risk of Strike Action

LXFlyer

alcaline wrote: »

Who told you that?
It is a outside contractor, as someone who works for DB when the new contracts for DB where given all of this was explained to us.

I've personally dealt with the people who run Irish Rail social media on numerous occasions - they are internal Irish Rail staff.

So please stop posting mis-information.

alcaline

lxflyer wrote: »

I've personally dealt with the people who run Irish Rail social media on numerous occasions - they are internal Irish Rail staff.

So please stop posting mis-information.

You are wrong!
It is a outside contractor, they were a requirement of the NTA contract.
So please stop posting mis-information.

alcaline

Reading here there is a lot of misunderstanding, someone down the pub told me this is how it works, so it must be true.
When this twitter, Facebook presence became a requirement of the new contract,we where told about it, and it is run by a outside contractor.
The staff are keep informed of some thing the public don't know about, the same as every other job, why do some find this hard to believe?

LXFlyer

Really - there is no point in continuing this.

It's really difficult to take anything you post seriously when you are telling me that people that I have dealt with on a personal basis, in other words, have had direct correspondence with, and that I know to be IE employees, are not IE employees.

alcaline

lxflyer wrote: »

Really - there is no point in continuing this.

It's really difficult to take anything you post seriously when you are telling me that people that I have dealt with on a personal basis, in other words, have had direct correspondence with, and that I know to be IE employees, are not IE employees.

Believe what you want to believe, you have been told the truth, if you choose to ignore it, there is nothing i or anyone else can do.

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

No monopoly is completely efficient and does things for the lowest price, this applies to any industry, airlines, supermarkets, competition always brings price down as companies have to look for efficiencies.

private operators aren't always efficient and do things for the lowist price. again, just ask the british railway.

devnull wrote: »

The Public sector is there to offer a service to the public, of course the service that is offered to the public is the most important thing. That is the whole point of a public service, rightly or wrongly.

whats that got to do with the fact a unions job is to look after its members? and quote where i stated the service to the public isn't important?

devnull wrote: »

But this is my point, there are people in the state companies moaning about the GREED of private companies making money at the expense of what should be a public service, whilst at the same time when it comes to their own money, they're far more concerned about that than the public service.

they are a minority. you should try actually talking to some staff. you will find a lot in irish rail genuinely care about the railway and want it to be the best it can. however they have gotten to the stage where so many promises have been made and nothing delivered that they have effectively given up because as they see it, nothing will change. only so much you can care, and only for so long can you care before you say whats the point nothing will change.

devnull wrote: »

If they were so concerned about the public service why don't they go on strike about how badly the service is run and how it lets the public down on a daily basis to make Irish Rail fix many of the problems the organisation has in serving the customers?

because irish rail won't do it no matter what. nobody will do it. whoever is running it, the government won't make sure the money is spent properly.

devnull wrote: »

Because quite simply once they get their money they don't give a toss and the public service element of Irish Rail is a smokescreen for the real reason, as a public service it's more beneficial to them, to hell with the actual public they claim to serve.

for a minority of people yes. for the rest, no . fine, you don't like irish rail. i have issues with them as well, but most of your point here is generalizing nonsense about people most of who actually care but can do nothing about how the company is run

devnull wrote: »

I'm all for unions to stand up for people who are unfairly sacked, but unions in a monopoly generally abuse their power time and time again because they know that if they don't get their own way they should just got on strike.

they don't. nobody goes out on strike these days unless its for good reason. they don't get payed while on strike as far as i know

devnull wrote: »

If state companies want to solely use facilities that they never actually had to pay for themselves, they should have to actually buy them from the state at their book value. Otherwise they should be regarded as assets of the state and the state should have the choice to do whatever it wants them.

no they shouldn't. those facilities are CIE facilities.

devnull wrote: »

Again it comes down to the fact that once more the public transport system in this country is not being run for the benefit of the public, and that is exactly why the NTA had to be set-up in their current form to bang a few heads together and actually work for a public transport system to suit the needs of the public. You have the unions protecting themselves, the state companies looking after themselves. Nobody gives a toss about fully integrated transport and providing the public with a proper service, because they are too busy worrying about themselves.

the NTA was set up because we need a transport regulator anyway. even if CIE was fully integrated, having a transport regulator to regulate all public transport is common sense in my view.

devnull wrote: »

Why should private companies give up their advantages as well? That is what the unions are asking. To keep hold of their own advantages but to let the competition have none of their own.

private companies aren't giving up their advantages. they have been given plenty of access on routes where competition is viable.

devnull wrote: »

If CIE paid for things out of their own money they can keep them all they want. But if not they should be considered assets of the state and the state should deploy them in the best way possible for the people of the state. If the state companies don't like that, that's just tough, it's the states job to run the country for the benefit of the people in it first and foremost.

CIE can keep them all they want as they are CIE facilities. the state companies should do what is necessary to keep hold of those facilities.

devnull wrote: »

I'm telling you that what I actually think. You have a different opinion to me but that doesn't mean that either me or you are factually right or factually wrong, just different opinions.

a link was posted either here or on another thread that backs up my argument in relation to pay for train drivers.

devnull wrote: »

I would have a lot less problems with pay if the company could provide an adequate level of service or the staff actually care. But all the staff care about is money, not service, whilst at the same time moaning private companies only care about money and not service.

more generalizations. i've no doubt such staff exist but they are in a minority.

devnull wrote: »

But every time I see people on here moaning about staff salaries and strikes, if people do not think that the pay is not worth the performance the companies give, how come the standard of service always is mentioned on boards in any pay dispute?

because people don't wish to admit the reason they might be against such a wage is simple begrudgery? you cannot deny that there are people who are jealous of those getting a decent wage

devnull wrote: »

The fact is some staff at stations couldn't care less about how well or how badly the company is run on the ground level. Nobody is going to try and so something about that. They don't care.

have you asked them all as to whether they do or don't care? you keep coming out with generalizations about all the staff but you have never spoken to hardly any have you? i have.

devnull wrote: »

But the moment any term or condition is slightly altered, they suddenly get very vocal.

wouldn't you. we all would.

devnull wrote: »

As I said before if they want to get the public on their side, why don't they go out and make such a fuss about the various customer service issues that are prevalent on a daily basis and force their company to do something about them, since after all they are supposed to be working to provide a great service to the public, why don't they hold their company to that and force them to fix the many things wrong within the organisation. They'd really improve their standing with the public.

standing with the public means nothing at the end of it all. its nice to have but it won't solve any issues. why don't you ask them why they don't go out on strike over customer service issues. maybe its because it won't make any difference?

end of the road

devnull wrote: »

they ignore their obligations under EU regulations to update and compensate passengers on delays.

no money for compensation. tbh compensation should only be payed to those for genuine reasons which cause people not to be able to work, such as injury.

devnull wrote: »

The NTA have done far more for proper public transport integration in the last few years than any of the state companies ever have.

what has the NTA done for wexfords railways? certainly hasn't improved them has it

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

To be fair they are generally pretty good about big disruption to DART services, in some cases isolated faults are a little sketchy with them. Overall I think they do a fairly good job on twitter but always room for improvement.

except the time where there was a landslide somewhere along the rosslare line and they never bothered to inform anyone meaning we all ended up being at the station and having to get a bus to wicklow i think or was it arklow? yet they were aware of it long before the train left rosslare.

alcaline wrote: »

It must not be a requirement of the contract drawn up by the NTA.
Resources are spread thin, so why do something the NTA don't deem necessary?

because it would be the decent thing to do in fairness

Jamie2k9

except the time where there was a landslide somewhere along the rosslare line and they never bothered to inform anyone meaning we all ended up being at the station and having to get a bus to wicklow i think or was it arklow? yet they were aware of it long before the train left rosslare.

It's only Rosslare, not impotent at all :eek: (sorry)

Seriously of course they miss things but they do a fairly good job at informing people, a weekend shift wouldn't do any harm.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's only Rosslare, not impotent at all (sorry)

don't be sorry.

kingshankly

Twitter is run by Irish rail staff
They have staff numbers they are Irish rail employees

markpb

kingshankly wrote: »

Twitter is run by Irish rail staff
They have staff numbers they are Irish rail employees

Don't be daft.

They're actually a team of covert military contractors parachuted into a secure location by the NTA. Communication between Irish Rail and these experts is by means of one time pads exchanged at dead drop locations across the city at pre-arranged times (never before 0730 for secure reasons).

This is what it takes to get CIE companies to use advanced 21st century technology like Twitter. They'd still be relying on the town preacher and parchment to announce delays if the NTA hadn't been so mean.

Wild Garlic

Irish Rail's Twitter account is indeed operated by Irish Rail staff, Fact.

Infini

Tbh we should just ban all social media. Its too dangerous fo people to handle!

Seriously tho thought this was about the strike and I come back and people are arguing over twitter?! -.O

end of the road

Infini2 wrote: »

Tbh we should just ban all social media. Its too dangerous fo people to handle!

Seriously tho thought this was about the strike and I come back and people are arguing over twitter?! -.O

you might be right, with some of the stuff i've seen on there over the years my brain has rotted away

Hilly Bill

alcaline wrote: »

For all we know the rail staff are ringing the phone of the twitter crew of the hook to inform them of the breakdown, but its pointless as they don't start work until 730.

A text alert gets sent out .

lanomist

hmmm wrote:

Nowhere is in profit, every one of the CIE companies receive an annual bailout/subvention from the taxpayer.

Hi, is there any update on the proposed rail strike on the 23rd of this month. I read where their were talks on Monday but haven't heard anything since. I am due to travel to Belfast on that day from Kildare to Heuston and the Luas to Connolly and onwards about 11am to Belfast. Anyone any experience of the last strike, how long does it take for normal services to get back to normal, will the Luas be affected by the action. Would be grateful for any advise . Thanks

Captain Chaos

lanomist wrote: »

Hi, is there any update on the proposed rail strike on the 23rd of this month. I read where their were talks on Monday but haven't heard anything since. I am due to travel to Belfast on that day from Kildare to Heuston and the Luas to Connolly and onwards about 11am to Belfast. Anyone any experience of the last strike, how long does it take for normal services to get back to normal, will the Luas be affected by the action. Would be grateful for any advise . Thanks

The strike is from 6-9am. Basically once it's 9am then trains will start moving. So only then will they start getting sets into position and leave depots etc. It will take hours if at all before they are running at timetable times, it will be a crazy day. I'm taking the day off work as I have no way of getting to work without a taxi or have any idea of what time I would get home at. Just going to enjoy an even longer weekend instead.

Luas is a private company and are not on strike.

Jamie2k9

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The strike is from 6-9am. Basically once it's 9am then trains will start moving. So only then will they start getting sets into position and leave depots etc. It will take hours if at all before they are running at timetable times, it will be a crazy day. I'm taking the day off work as I have no way of getting to work without a taxi or have any idea of what time I would get home at. Just going to enjoy an even longer weekend instead.

Luas is a private company and are not on strike.

I assume add departures prior to 06.00 will operate as planned as well?

Given they have spend 4 days talking I expect it may be called off, usually its hours and they are out bickering in public.

Infini

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I assume add departures prior to 06.00 will operate as planned as well?

Given they have spend 4 days talking I expect it may be called off, usually its hours and they are out bickering in public.

Sadly it looks like its going ahead. Company is wanting to link new "productivity" increases to the pay increases sought even though the unions are looking for the company to comply with pay increases after the company got existing "productivity" increases already. I mean why would the unions agree to new "productivity" measures when the company hasnt even complied by giving pay increases for EXISTING ones.

Also hearing rumors on the grapevine (tho this aint very reliable -.-) that apparently there was a deal ready to be signed and it was blocked by Franks. I mean why does it take the throwing the sink at management before anyone listens?

billyhead

Will dublin bus honour valid train tickets (i.e travel pass for Irish Rail) on Friday morning?

Infini

billyhead wrote: »

Will dublin bus honour valid train tickets (i.e travel pass for Irish Rail) on Friday morning?

Nope unfortunately they wont cover in an event of a strike.

GM228

billyhead wrote: »

Will dublin bus honour valid train tickets (i.e travel pass for Irish Rail) on Friday morning?

During strike/industrial actions the bus/rail companies have never honoured each others tickets-this is only done diring disruption for failures etc.

It should also be noted that bus replacement is not provided at times of strike/industrial action.

GM228

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

During strike/industrial actions the bus/rail companies have never honoured each others tickets because unions will not allow it as they would organism for DB and BE to strike as well

GM228

FYP

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

FYP

Although they are part of the same holding group, they are all seperate companies with seperate union divisions and seperate goals and issues, one union branch would not encourage another to go on strike for a reason which dosn't concern them, why would a bus driver want to go out on strike for a train driver? If that were to happen I could see the unions getting sued.

The other companies will not honour the tickets as it dosn't concern them, they only do during disruption as part of a prior agreement.

GM228

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Although they are part of the same holding group, they are all seperate companies with seperate union divisions and seperate goals and issues, one union branch would not encourage another to go on strike for a reason which dosn't concern them, why would a bus driver want to go out on strike for a train driver? If that were to happen I could see the unions getting sued.

The other companies will not honour the tickets as it dosn't concern them, they only do during disruption as part of a prior agreement.

GM228

Separate or not, unions have threatened to spread action before.

I am telling you they will not honour tickets because of the unions, why would DB and BE turn down IE paying them money to fill any empty seats on either networks.

You would be very naive to believe there is another reason behind it.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Separate or not, unions have threatened to spread action before.

I am telling you they will not honour tickets because of the unions, why would DB and BE turn down IE paying them money to fill any empty seats on either networks.

You would be very naive to believe there is another reason behind it.

DB do NOT get payed when they honour IE tickets! It's done as a good gesture between the companies.

The reason why DB and BE don't honour rail tickets during a dispute is simply because there is a dispute and the same reason why IE don't organise private coaches either, because during a dispute there is no guarantee of a service from A to B

GM228

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Separate or not, unions have threatened to spread action before.

only on issues relating to the 3 companies and CIE as a whole though. the unions for example couldn't cause any spread of issues that relate to rail workers to their members on the busses. of course sometimes shared bus and train stations may be subject to a little disruption if rail staff are picketing the station but for the most part it is very minimal.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

only on issues relating to the 3 companies and CIE as a whole though. the unions for example couldn't cause any spread of issues that relate to rail workers to their members on the busses. of course sometimes shared bus and train stations may be subject to a little disruption if rail staff are picketing the station but for the most part it is very minimal.

Nonsense

Strike action at Bus Éireann could escalate to include other semi-state transport firms, a union spokesman has warned today.
A member of the National Bus & Rail Union's national executive said that there is a "huge risk" that members at Irish Rail and Dublin Bus may follow them on to the picket lines.
NBRU spokesman John Maloney said that staff at Iarnród Éireann and Dublin Bus want to become involved.
"Our members in the two companies are getting increasingly frustrated here," he said.
"Seeing their colleagues being treated like they're being treated,

Link with quotes

Infini

Well it has been said that theres some grumblings over in Dublin Bus alright in regards to their own issues. Theres also the Luas drivers, there WAS the post sorters too, theres the Nurses as well and now I believe the teachers aren't impressed either. Theres ALOT of industrial disputes brewing lately its not just here to be fair. They cant necessarily call the other companies out on strike at a whim of course but at the same time they can if they bring their own disputes from those companies into it as well. The LUAS has threats of strike related to their own pay what If they turned around one of these days and went on strike at the same time as Irish Rail or Dublin bus?

Regardless the Transport Minister saying he isnt intervening might seem like hes taking the high ground but hes not because its him and his department that's the root cause of all this.

Looked here http://www.irishrail.ie/media/2009_ar_english.pdf

Subvention was reduced drastically by 20mil from 196m in 2007 to 170m in 2009. Its an older document BUT the subvention has been repeatedly cut further in the following years till last year (If someone could post up the subvention levels of the last 10 years it would be nice). It doesnt take a genius to see who the REAL problem is. The subvention is reduced to a level that deliberately leaves the company in a loss making position. Meanwhile service levels have NOT been reduced during this time. This has left the company dangerously undermanned and underfunded and if anything this backs the Unions position on this who have said that the company isn't losing 1mil a month (some are saying its 1.5mil now I mean are we dramatizing this now guys?) but is underfunded that much. If someone were to be cynical it would look like the government are deliberately trying to engineer a situation where they can try selling off the company or privatize it and offload everything onto Paddy's back (if you think privatization would be savings for people you got to be dreaming the grass is NEVER greener on the other side *points at UK*). Something has to give and the drivers are right to demand they get what they're owed. They wont accept a new agreement if the previous one wasn't followed through on by the company as it basically means the managements word and agreements aren't worth squat.

One other thing is Franks is an axe man hes only there to butcher the place as much as he can get away with it. His attitude was also shown clearly last year when the staff went on strike and he was "living the dream" in Mauritius (he aint living THAT one down) so when I hear talk that hes blocking agreements then I tend to give them some belief to them.

GM228

And did they join in? No!

I remember that strike and speaking to a friend who is a BE inspector shortly afterwards he told me that was just spin from the unions and that the DB and IE staff had absolutely no interest in their dispute and would not get involved.

At locations of co-sited bus/rail depots the IE staff walked right past the BE staff he recalled.

The only time I can remember a strike affecting another company was the ILDA strike towards the end when they started picketing at the DB garages and the bus drivers refused to work as they would not pass a picket.

GM228