Irish Rail - Risk of Strike Action

Seridisand

Looks like another Train strike going to happen, judging from past form and the mention of next month, I'd imagine they'll aim for the weekend of the September 20th to maximise disruption.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0817/721769-irish-rail/

flyingsnail

The article seems like a bit of posturing to me, they might ballot members that could result in strike action. Sounds like negotiations are not going their way and they want to up the ante.

Jamie2k9

Toys out of the pram again, need to make sure when pay is restored the smaller train sizes need to be taken into account, bet they won't be vocal about that!

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Toys out of the pram again, need to make sure when pay is restored the smaller train sizes need to be taken into account, bet they won't be vocal about that!

its doubtful the size of trains will be changed unless the NTA force it upon them. of course the fixed nature of much of the fleet means when a train is sized it can either be sized to much, or to little. hopefully any more procurements in the future will take advantage of the much better 2 coach unit sets as they can be better formed in to more numbers and matched to demand.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

its doubtful the size of trains will be changed unless the NTA force it upon them. of course the fixed nature of much of the fleet means when a train is sized it can either be sized to much, or to little. hopefully any more procurements in the future will take advantage of the much better 2 coach unit sets as they can be better formed in to more numbers and matched to demand.

I mean drivers pay restored according to train size after all they get increased pay because of longer trains. :rolleyes:

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I mean drivers pay restored according to train size after all they get increased pay because of longer trains.

ah yeah i know what you meant, don't worry. i was just saying in general.

Captain Chaos

Speaking of train sizes, I have noticed there are alot of 8 car formations going around over the past week. Even 8 car LHB sets and they are/were very rare.

end of the road

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Speaking of train sizes, I have noticed there are alot of 8 car formations going around over the past week. Even 8 car LHB sets and they are/were very rare.

you mean they have saw sense in terms of the dart? genuinely wouldn't have expected that.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

you mean they have saw sense in terms of the dart? genuinely wouldn't have expected that.

Sense is a stretch to far but a lot more tourists and in general commuting in Dublin is the reason.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Sense is a stretch to far

very fair point.

Infini

Problems arent necessarily the train sizes but rather the LACK OF STAFF to support them. Driving the train is hard enough when you have to concentrate on whats ahead of you without people distracting you with 40 questions because theres no staff on board some of these long distance trains. On top of that theyre getting abuse and threats from drunken bellends while trying to do their job which is stressful enough with all the safety this and that without having to deal with that too. Theres a few idiots out there as well who think its fair game to give the drivers just doing their job a hard time as well.

In addition theres the issues with keeping even the main stations manned even. Theres noone around alot of the time to help wheelchairs and theyre beeing left on platforms sometimes. Drivers on the dart wont put them on not just because its not their job but because of health and safety issues ( paticularly the reason is many wheelchairs are not simple wheelchairs but heavy powered scooters ) and theres questions over wether theyre even insured about that.

Another is the new dart 10min timetable. From what Ive heard so far they were meant to hire more drivers for that but instead theyre replacing drivers leaving instead. That leaves existing drivers facing having to take up the slack with no support or reasonable breathing space.

The whole way the companys being managed with getting rid of staff and refusing to replace staff where theyre badly needed is the root issue. More work and issues are being pushed onto those with enough problems to deal with and theres no thanks or help given from maanagement. The whole strike threat is probably a warning across the bow for management to start doing something to help. Maybe its pay for having to take on more stuff or mebbe its just to get them to hire the staff thats badly needed in some parts.

Its easy to think its just about money when you want to but when you start seeing whats really going on then it becomes alot more understandable. I wouldnt wanna be going on strike myself but management have been dragging and ignoring some of these issues for years expecially with antisocial issues which are getting worse and more dangerous. Sooner or later somethings gonna happen and its because of these things going on that will end up being the cause.

Hilly Bill

There isn't a health and safety issue about putting a wheelchair on a train. All they do is put the ramp down, the passenger does the rest. No insurance issue either. I agree a driver should focus on driving and nothing else seeing as they are being suffocated with countless new safety regulations and any minor slip up could get you stood down but leaving someone stranded just to make a point is poor form.

Jamie2k9

Driving the train is hard enough when you have to concentrate on whats ahead of you without people distracting you with 40 questions because theres no staff on board some of these long distance trains. On top of that theyre getting abuse and threats from drunken bellends while trying to do their job which is stressful enough with all the safety this and that without having to deal with that too. Theres a few idiots out there as well who think its fair game to give the drivers just doing their job a hard time as well.

From a driving point it probably easier than ever and while you have "some" points however the question thing is such rubbish.

When there is staff on board they are generally in with the driver and I expect it's far from dead silence between both of them....

As for been abused is it really a big deal, passengers get abuse nothing IE can do even if they have a hundred staff on the platforms/trains.

Another is the new dart 10min timetable. From what Ive heard so far they were meant to hire more drivers for that but instead theyre replacing drivers leaving instead. That leaves existing drivers facing having to take up the slack with no support or reasonable breathing space.

Slack, remind me when the 10 minute timetable was introduced....

If drivers are replacing ones going then what is the issue when service has not increased.

Its easy to think its just about money when you want to but when you start seeing whats really going on then it becomes alot more understandable. I wouldnt wanna be going on strike myself but management have been dragging and ignoring some of these issues for years expecially with antisocial issues which are getting worse and more dangerous. Sooner or later somethings gonna happen and its because of these things going on that will end up being the cause.

There is going on about money but call a spade a spade here if they were offered a couple of quid extra per day we would hear next to nothing.

Whatever way you look at it it comes down to money. They will have their pay restored from end of next year and it's a small price to put up with until then when passengers have put up with a lot more.

I agree a driver should focus on driving and nothing else seeing as they are being suffocated with countless new safety regulations and any minor slip up could get you stood down but leaving someone stranded just to make a point is poor form.

While H & S is a pain in many respects not a lot IE can do perhaps they had more notice about new measures but there is not a lot of consultation that IE can do if RSC here or EU laws have been drafted and implemented.

What do unions want to discuss the regulations and pick which ones they want?

For a long time in IE, throwing money to fix problems worked with unions but that tap has run dry now...

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

From a driving point it probably easier than ever and while you have "some" points however the question thing is such rubbish.

no it isn't. a drivers job is to drive, nothing more. there is no excuse not to have other staff on board long distance trains.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

When there is staff on board they are generally in with the driver and I expect it's far from dead silence between both of them....

so have them out in a customer facing roll, and ensure they can only use the non driving cab.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

As for been abused is it really a big deal,

it absolutely is .

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

passengers get abuse nothing IE can do even if they have a hundred staff on the platforms/trains.

thats no excuse

Jamie2k9

no it isn't. a drivers job is to drive, nothing more. there is no excuse not to have other staff on board long distance trains.

If the whole county did exactly what their job descriptions say out unemployment figures would be 0 overnight.

Driving a train is straight forward and if anything gets in the way not a lot can be done. I really can't see any issues with them having to put on/off odd wheelchair. There is safety systems in place if passengers require assistance from drivers when they are driving ie-speed drops to around half of what a driver is doing to allow them speak to passengers in a safe way.

They do a great job but a lot of what the union are moaning about is beyond the control of IE.

IE management and unions are probably as bad as each other trying to push each other to the limits.

so have them out in a customer facing roll, and ensure they can only use the non driving cab.

I don't have a problem with them with drivers etc but it's rich of drivers to moan about such things when it happens all the time. How would you police such procedures?

it absolutely is .

thats no excuse

I'm not making an excuse but what are other IE staff going to do, they are unlikely going to interfere as they more less legally can't and it will be a case of waiting for the guards. I agree major stations should be staffed but I don't believe full station staffing is required, the number of passengers is not viable to warrent such an operation which happens across Europe in most stations.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If the whole county did exactly what their job descriptions say out unemployment figures would be 0 overnight.

Driving a train is straight forward and if anything gets in the way not a lot can be done. I really can't see any issues with them having to put on/off odd wheelchair. There is safety systems in place if passengers require assistance from drivers when they are driving ie-speed drops to around half of what a driver is doing to allow them speak to passengers in a safe way.

They do a great job but a lot of what the union are moaning about is beyond the control of IE.

IE management and unions are probably as bad as each other trying to push each other to the limits.



I don't have a problem with them with drivers etc but it's rich of drivers to moan about such things when it happens all the time. How would you police such procedures?




I'm not making an excuse but what are other IE staff going to do, they are unlikely going to interfere as they more less legally can't and it will be a case of waiting for the guards. I agree major stations should be staffed but I don't believe full station staffing is required, the number of passengers is not viable to warrent such an operation which happens across Europe in most stations.

which is why its important to have staff on the long distance trains instead. that way stations that don't justify staff don't have to be staffed. however the drivers job is simply to drive and they should not be expected to do any more.

Hilly Bill

They shouldn't be expected to do more but you wouldn't leave someone on a platform just to make a point. The money will be restored this time next year but the i think the argument here is that staff was promised that the money would be partially restored if the finances got better. Rumour has it, that come next year, they won't restore it and it will remain on the current level indefinitely. Only a rumour though.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They shouldn't be expected to do more but you wouldn't leave someone on a platform just to make a point. The money will be restored this time next year but the i think the argument here is that staff was promised that the money would be partially restored if the finances got better. Rumour has it, that come next year, they won't restore it and it will remain on the current level indefinitely. Only a rumour though.

I expect this will happen however it cannot be an issue until 2016.

The company finance has improved and one would expect a profit this year and next and while drivers may feel they should have pay restored earlier such surplus should be reinvested in infrastructure which is badly needed.

There is also the fact that Income Tax/USC will be cut again this year so after all one wonders how badly will many staff particularly those above lowest grades of pay will actually be off in 2016 compared to 2013.

Looking at bigger picture if they restore it fully from late next year then how many months will we be waiting until unions are calling for everything lose since 2008 to be restored which I hope many staff wouldn't expect but you never know.

Hilly Bill

The only crowd that get looked after are the signal men. When the rest got money cut or refused the agreed pay increase, they got an increase. Maybe its these the drivers mean that got the increase ?
Either way, for an union or a group of unions, they treat the majority of their members as mushrooms as they are in the dark as to what is actually going on and only a chosen few get a say over the rest of them.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The only crowd that get looked after are the signal men. When the rest got money cut or refused the agreed pay increase, they got an increase. Maybe its these the drivers mean that got the increase ?
Either way, for an union or a group of unions, they treat the majority of their members as mushrooms as they are in the dark as to what is actually going on and only a chosen few get a say over the rest of them.

And those mushrooms allow it and go along like the sheep they are and vote to strike.

As for signal lads would I be correct in saying IE wouldn't want to lose any of them as training them up would require much more work/time than a drivers.

LXFlyer

While I'm not going to comment on the particular issues relating to a potential dispute as I don't know what is involved, I think people need to stand back a little when making comments about company finances.

Company finances form two parts:
1) Annual Profit & Loss Account
2) Balance Sheet at year end

Now while the company P & L account might show a profit in one year, that does not mean that you can suddenly relinquish whatever cost saving measures are in place.

You can't simply look at one year in isolation. As at 31 December 2014. Irish Rail had an accumulated deficit of €135m and net current liabilities of €196m.

There needs to be some inroads made into that in order to get the company finances back on track and recoup the losses made in recent years - you don't simply look at the P & L account in one year, see a profit and then say, ok everything can go back to normal.

Those accumulated losses need to reduce and set the company back on track so to speak. Otherwise we could end up back where this started and the company facing financial oblivion.

Heisenberg1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The only crowd that get looked after are the signal men. When the rest got money cut or refused the agreed pay increase, they got an increase. Maybe its these the drivers mean that got the increase ?
Either way, for an union or a group of unions, they treat the majority of their members as mushrooms as they are in the dark as to what is actually going on and only a chosen few get a say over the rest of them.

I would imagine the signal mans job would be more stressful and of a higher grade than a driver so they should earn more than a driver.

Hilly Bill

It's not about who gets a higher basic and why.

Heisenberg1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's not about who gets a higher basic and why.

But you implied that the drivers are not happy the signalmen got an increase and that they would like parity no??

Hilly Bill

No.

Heisenberg1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No.

Then why mention a particular group of employees and that they got an increase in salary ?

Hilly Bill

It's about a certain group getting an agreed pay rise and others being refused it. It's not about wanting to be on the same pay.

Heisenberg1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's about a certain group getting an agreed pay rise and others being refused it. It's not about wanting to be on the same pay.

Why were the signalmen given a raise? Are the drivers doing more work than they were 2 years ago?

Hilly Bill

Yes.

Heisenberg1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Yes.

Such as?

Infini

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/luas-drivers-plan-strikes-in-protest-over-wages-31478937.html

And now the Luas drivers are getting fed up as well.