Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

ukoda

On that note, one thing the government should do is add eircode to the Journey Planner App the National Transport Authority have available. So tourists or locals could enter a destination eircode and be given the public transport options to get to it.

Irish Steve

ukoda wrote: »

On that note, one thing the government should do is add eircode to the Journey Planner App the National Transport Authority have available. So tourists or locals could enter a destination eircode and be given the public transport options to get to it.

But Eircode won't be able to give them the exact location of the places they need to go to to start the journey, it will be (possibly) able to give the location of the nearest address to the (bus stop) location, but not the exact location that the transport service may start from.

ukoda

Irish Steve wrote: »

But Eircode won't be able to give them the exact location of the places they need to go to to start the journey, it will be (possibly) able to give the location of the nearest address to the (bus stop) location, but not the exact location that the transport service may start from.

No need, the location of the bus stop is baked into the app, you can see it on the map and navigate to it, again all possible offline with no internet

marmurr1916

gizmo555 wrote: »

One simple reason why relying on an online-only solution such as Google Maps is inadequate is that foreign tourists using it on their phones are likely to incur hefty roaming data charges. I know the EU is planning to abolish these next year, but that's no help to visitors from outside the EU.

If you're from outside the EU and you don't buy a pay as you go SIM card when you visit the EU, quite frankly you're looking to be ripped off.

Do you think that US tourists, for example, don't use data on their phones when visiting France?

gizmo555 wrote: »

By contrast, for example, I'm going to France on holiday this summer. I can download a map of France to my phone's Here Maps app before I go and get offline turn-by-turn navigation completely free of charge.

An online-only solution is also of no use whatever to all the existing satnav systems which don't incorporate internet access.

As ukoda has pointed out, all such systems can integrate Eircodes for offline use.

oscarBravo

gizmo555 wrote: »

Yeah, well this is consistent with your position throughout these discussions, which could be summed up as "I'm happy with Eircode, therefore anyone else's criticism is by definition invalid."

Let's recap.

You said that Google Maps is "not much good for navigation".

I pointed out that I'm using Google Maps very successfully for navigation.

You somehow manage to interpret this as a defence of Eircode.

I quite honestly don't know what to do with that... "logic".

Mountainsandh

TheChizler wrote: »

Who's suggesting that it would be mandatory whenever you use the site? It would be used when you're unfamiliar with the locality and don't know where the local Lidl/whatever us.

In France the postcode is required to look up offers in your local Lidl, that's what I understood as being discussed. Your local post office Eircode or neighbour's Eircode would be irrelevant in the situation you describe ?

Mountainsandh

BoatMad wrote: »

These discussions are all " perceptions" , I'm sure what your colleagues do, is down to them and not what you " think" they will do.

No doubt any company will offer either postcode lookup or town lookup , users can decide as appropriate. Personally, typing in 7 digits, is very fast.

People will remember their postcodes as they see it more and more.

In fact , asking my friends, more now know it then 6 months ago

I don't "think" my friends and family don't know their codes, they tell me they don't.

It's great that you are happy with typing 7 digits, and find it easy to remember, good for you. I'm happy with typing 7 digits too, and I'm fine remembering my code too. Great.

My circle of friends is as valid as yours, and if your perception is still that these are my perceptions, my perceptions are as valid as yours too.

My point being, to go back to it, that the human element has been neglected, and that it is important when your intentions are that the public should use a brand new postcode.

Mountainsandh

BoatMad wrote: »

No, He "speculated" that his colleagues etc, he didn't say he asked them. I said I asked them. His is a perception , mine is a fact ( within the bounds of truth on boards ). He admitted his is speculation in the form of words he used "I can hear it in my colleagues', friends and family members' voices : "ahhh now. Too much hassle"." thats simply speculation

His speculation may be valid, thats an entirely different point. but it remains speculation or a perception on his part

Just to be absolutely clear, the discussions have actually taken place, so mine are not "perceptions".

Gathering up the lot into one example was a way of summarizing the situation.

The subject of Eircode has usually been brought up by myself in all environments since none of these people ever mentioned it. They don't know it, they don't use it, they don't think of it, they're not interested in the news about it. Not perceptions, I'm paraphrasing conversations here.

Mountainsandh

marmurr1916 wrote: »

It's a set of seven characters - after you've looked up the Eircode once you can store it somewhere (or if you use Chrome, just make sure that autofill is turned on and every time you go to enter it, Chrome will suggest the full Eircode) or you could simply remember it (remember when people used to remember stuff?) for future use.




I'm the same vintage as you and I've got no problem putting my 7 character UK postcode into websites to do just that.

When I moved into my house I didn't know the postcode so I had to look it up. Once I used it a few times I remembered it and no longer have to look it up. The same will apply if you start using an Eircode, unless you've got a memory like a sieve.

If you prefer to fart around with maps to find your nearest store or prefer to enter your full postal address instead of your Eircode, that's your business.

Personally I think those methods are too much hassle. Each to his own.

Again reading in my post what you want to read, rather than what is written.

There is a semi-colon in my sentence to indicate two separate clauses :
in my first clause I indicate that in fact, I love the internet and am not paranoid about entering my details online. I didn't feel I had to develop that point further as I previously said in another post I would consider myself pretty internet "savvy".
In the second clause I make the case for people in my entourage who do not share these characteristics.

Some of these people are older, some are of our vintage. They tell me (I have to be very explicit in my choice of words, this is not speculation) that the internet can be a challenge for them, that they tend to use sites that they find easiest and fastest to use, rather than sites where they have to fill in lots of things.

To give you an idea of the general level of computer literacy, they are very impressed when they see me opening a new window, or a new tab.

I am told that it is my "perception" that people are reluctant to use Eircode, yet the "perception" here, or assumption maybe rather, that people in real life will be totally comfortable using Google maps for example (I know, right, Google maps !), is erroneous, in my experience.

People are not in fact as computer literate as is perceived. As a result, the adoption of Eircodes is pretty much irrelevant for them, in most situations.

A post code that would have made sense to them in real life, for example a postcode that would have used a pre-known prefix based on county initials and double digits, would have been adopted much quicker.

For these friends and family, who don't know how to open a second tab on their phone internet for example, a real life postcode that you could call out to the petrol station attendant, and be given real life directions, would have been a lot more user friendly, and useful.

ukoda

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Again reading in my post what you want to read, rather than what is written.

There is a semi-colon in my sentence to indicate two separate clauses :
in my first clause I indicate that in fact, I love the internet and am not paranoid about entering my details online. I didn't feel I had to develop that point further as I previously said in my post I would consider myself pretty internet "savvy".
In the second clause I make the case for people in my entourage who do not share these characteristics.

Some of these people are older, some are of our vintage. They tell me (I have to be very explicit in my choice of words, this is not speculation) that the internet can be a challenge for them, that they tend to use sites that they find easiest and fastest to use, rather than sites where they have to fill in lots of things.

To give you an idea of the general level of computer literacy, they are very impressed when they see me opening a new window, or a new tab.

I am told that it is my "perception" that people are reluctant to use Eircode, yet the "perception" here, or assumption maybe rather, that people in real life will be totally comfortable using Google maps for example (I know, right, Google maps !), is erroneous, in my experience.

People are not in fact as computer literate as is perceived. As a result, the adoption of Eircodes is pretty much irrelevant for them, in most situations.

A post code that would have made sense to them in real life, for example a postcode that would have used a pre-known prefix based on county initials and double digits, would have been adopted much quicker.

For these friends and family, who don't know how to open a second tab on their phone internet for example, a real life postcode that you could call out to the petrol station attendant, and be given real life directions, would have been a lot more user friendly, and useful.

The TL;DR version of that post for those who don't want to read all the waffle

Old people no likey technology

Mountainsandh

ukoda wrote: »

The TL;DR version of that post for those who don't want to read all the waffle

Old people no likey technology

I am as entitled to reply to posts which quote mine as you are Ukoda.

"Old people no likey technology" is not a very valid concept for you is it ?

edit : apologies I replied to posts on here that I should have directed to the other thread maybe.

ukoda

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I am as entitled to reply to posts which quote mine as you are Ukoda.

"Old people no likey technology" is not a very valid concept for you is it ?

edit : apologies I replied to posts on here that I should have directed to the other thread maybe.

There is merit to it, but if everyone had that belief then we'd have no new technology at all, or maybe we'd have an iPhone with massive buttons and an OS that just texts and makes calls

You build for the future, the future is a connected world, the Internet of things, always on, always connected, everything connected.

Mountainsandh

ukoda wrote: »

There is merit to it, but if everyone had that belief then we'd have no new technology at all, or maybe we'd have an iPhone with massive buttons and an OS that just texts and makes calls

You build for the future, the future is a connected world, the Internet of things, always on, always connected, everything connected.

And you leave behind an entire cohort of people, which explains the very poor response to Eircode implementation so far (from the public).

ukoda

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And you leave behind an entire cohort of people, which explains the very poor response to Eircode implementation so far (from the public).

Nah, the slow uptake is because the other technology (google maps, sat navs etc) haven't integrated it yet

We don't leave behind anyone, some simply aren't open to it and that's their choice, but they are probably the last generation of old people who will not embrace technology, when the current generations of teens to middle age reach that age, we will be a generation of tech savvy auld codgers

Mountainsandh

Yeah sure they'll die off.

oscarBravo

I'm not sure what all this talk of old people being tech savvy has to do with the implementation of Eircodes. For the average punter, young or old, the maximum extent of their involvement with Eircode is knowing what theirs is. For the majority of my customers who can tell me their Eircode, they do so by reading it off the wee card that they stuck to the fridge when it came in the post.

Mountainsandh

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not sure what all this talk of old people being tech savvy has to do with the implementation of Eircodes. For the average punter, young or old, the maximum extent of their involvement with Eircode is knowing what theirs is. For the majority of my customers who can tell me their Eircode, they do so by reading it off the wee card that they stuck to the fridge when it came in the post.

Eircode implementation by online companies and services leads to discussion on how tech savvy one has to be to avail of it.

Is that far fetched ?

ukoda

You're probably aware of this, but it's now mandatory to give a valid eircode when adding an address to PayPal

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

You're probably aware of this, but it's now mandatory to give a valid eircode when adding an address to PayPal

Looks like they're one of the first of many online services to implement such a requirement, I expect that all the others will follow suit the next time they upgrade their web sites.

my3cents

It would be interesting to check if there is any further validation of the Eircode when you sign up for a new PayPal account. Could you for example give an Eircode with a Dublin routing key and an address in Cork?

ukoda

my3cents wrote: »

It would be interesting to check if there is any further validation of the Eircode when you sign up for a new PayPal account. Could you for example give an Eircode with a Dublin routing key and an address in Cork?

There isn't. I was able to put a fake eircode in, so they don't do full address validation. They force you to enter an eircode in the right format tho, as in I can't save without an eircode

The first commercial company I've seen using address validation (I.e. They ask for your eircode and return your address) is 123.ie

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like they're one of the first of many online services to implement such a requirement, I expect that all the others will follow suit the next time they upgrade their web sites.

ukoda wrote: »

There isn't. I was able to put a fake eircode in, so they don't do full address validation. They force you to enter an eircode in the right format tho, as in I can't save without an eircode

The first commercial company I've seen using address validation (I.e. They ask for your eircode and return your address) is 123.ie

And there was me thinking that they actually validated the postcode! :rolleyes:

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there was me thinking that they actually validated the postcode! :rolleyes:

They may in time, but given they don't actually have a huge requirement for the correct address (they don't write to or deliver to customers themselves and the verify card details with the bank ) I guess they feel it's enough to just make it mandatory for an eircode, on the belief no one will want to enter a fake one for fear of losing their account.

For a really good example of use of eircode for address verification, check out 123.ie go to get a quote (you don't have to actually finish the process) scroll down to address section and they ask you if you know your eircode

ukoda

123.ie







Also, if you say you don't know your eircode, you enter your address and they will return matches including the eircode at the end, this only works for unique addresses tho

marmurr1916

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Again reading in my post what you want to read, rather than what is written.

There is a semi-colon in my sentence to indicate two separate clauses :
in my first clause I indicate that in fact, I love the internet and am not paranoid about entering my details online. I didn't feel I had to develop that point further as I previously said in another post I would consider myself pretty internet "savvy".
In the second clause I make the case for people in my entourage who do not share these characteristics.

Some of these people are older, some are of our vintage. They tell me (I have to be very explicit in my choice of words, this is not speculation) that the internet can be a challenge for them, that they tend to use sites that they find easiest and fastest to use, rather than sites where they have to fill in lots of things.

To give you an idea of the general level of computer literacy, they are very impressed when they see me opening a new window, or a new tab.

I am told that it is my "perception" that people are reluctant to use Eircode, yet the "perception" here, or assumption maybe rather, that people in real life will be totally comfortable using Google maps for example (I know, right, Google maps !), is erroneous, in my experience.

People are not in fact as computer literate as is perceived. As a result, the adoption of Eircodes is pretty much irrelevant for them, in most situations.

A post code that would have made sense to them in real life, for example a postcode that would have used a pre-known prefix based on county initials and double digits, would have been adopted much quicker.

For these friends and family, who don't know how to open a second tab on their phone internet for example, a real life postcode that you could call out to the petrol station attendant, and be given real life directions, would have been a lot more user friendly, and useful.

I do read your posts with the care and attention they deserve.

I don't know why you think I've failed to respond correctly.

Is there some particular response you're seeking to elicit?

In my opinion, it's easier for me to enter my postcode when offered a choice between a postcode-based search, a map search or an address-based search.

I don't find it a big deal and I think you're making a big song and dance about it.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

a real life postcode that you could call out to the petrol station attendant, and be given real life directions, would have been a lot more user friendly, and useful.

I must try that next time I'm in Birmingham: 'Hi mate, could you tell me how to get to B6 5NE from here?'

Mountainsandh

marmurr I have explained in my posts that I am computer literate, have no problem using the internet, I know my Eircode by heart, and have no difficulty typing it in.

My argument is not about myself having difficulty typing my Eircode, but the people around me.

This was your post :

It's a set of seven characters - after you've looked up the Eircode once you can store it somewhere (or if you use Chrome, just make sure that autofill is turned on and every time you go to enter it, Chrome will suggest the full Eircode) or you could simply remember it (remember when people used to remember stuff?) for future use.

I'm the same vintage as you and I've got no problem putting my 7 character UK postcode into websites to do just that.

When I moved into my house I didn't know the postcode so I had to look it up. Once I used it a few times I remembered it and no longer have to look it up. The same will apply if you start using an Eircode, unless you've got a memory like a sieve.

If you prefer to fart around with maps to find your nearest store or prefer to enter your full postal address instead of your Eircode, that's your business.

Personally I think those methods are too much hassle. Each to his own.

oscarBravo

Mountainsandh wrote: »

My argument is not about myself having difficulty typing my Eircode, but the people around me.

People have difficulty typing their Eircode?

Seriously?

ukoda

Another site that has eircode is solocheck.ie, where you look up company registration details, all the companies are listed with their eircode in the address

Mountainsandh

oscarBravo wrote: »

People have difficulty typing their Eircode?

Seriously?

I'll stay away from these discussions again, you don't seem willing at all to consider other viewpoints, and your post above illustrates that. There's no discussion possible of course when people adopt your stance.

Imo it's a poor way to approach change, to despise and dismiss possible hurdles due to other sections of society.

Of course you can do it, it's not going to stop the adoption of Eircode, since this particular demographic will no longer be a problem within say, 2 decades, and the large swathes of population who are indeed not as computer literate as you can easily be overlooked.

In time, this large portion of the population for whom the design of current Eircodes, and the chaotic implementation process, are an inconvenience rather than an improvement ; this large swathe of people will pass, and a ridiculous, but widely used postal code system will remain.

I understand this is not important to you as economics, commercial validity, and the prospect of savings are paramount for another section of society right now.

ukoda

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'll stay away from these discussions again, you don't seem willing at all to consider other viewpoints, and your post above illustrates that. There's no discussion possible of course when people adopt your stance.

Imo it's a poor way to approach change, to despise and dismiss possible hurdles due to other sections of society.

Of course you can do it, it's not going to stop the adoption of Eircode, since this particular demographic will no longer be a problem within say, 2 decades, and the large swathes of population who are indeed not as computer literate as you can easily be overlooked.

In time, this large portion of the population for whom the design of current Eircodes, and the chaotic implementation process, are an inconvenience rather than an improvement ; this large swathe of people will pass, and a ridiculous, but widely used postal code system will remain.

I understand this is not important to you as economics, commercial validity, and the prospect of savings are paramount for another section of society right now.

I think you're underestimating the older generation, they are more than capable of remembering or storing their eircode somewhere prominently and they can use it ambulance calls, dealing on the phone with government departments, giving it to people for directions and generally making use of it when required in their current lives.

If they don't like tech or don't used tech, then no postcode design is going to be of use to them online.

In the scenario of "typing it into to an online form" I can tell you right now, if they are capable of getting on to the lidl site or any other website it is very disrespectful of you to claim they would then be incapable of typing their eircode Into a box if such a service was available.

If they are elderly people who are tech savvy, they can use eircode online.

If they are not tech savvy then they have no need to use eircode online and therefore can use it in their phone interactions or face to face.