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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

  • 13-08-2015 8:22pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭ beveragelady


    I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
    The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
    Amazed!
    It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,370 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    It does seem a bit pointless if the postal service aren't using it. Or satnavs.

    There's an advert on RTE radio for eircode at the minute, about a mum trying to get her daughter to a friend's house for a birthday party, and says you should the eircode instead of vague directions.

    Thing is, how exactly do we use am Europe should a friend give it to you to get to their house?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,370 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    It does seem a bit pointless if the postal service aren't using it. Or satnavs.

    There's an advert on RTE radio for eircode at the minute, about a mum trying to get her daughter to a friend's house for a birthday party, and says you should the eircode instead of vague directions.

    Thing is, how exactly do we use am Europe should a friend give it to you to get to their house?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭ Into The Blue


    The one with the aul lad giving directions is fairly on the ball in fairness.. Pity eircode would be no better!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,708 ✭✭✭✭ blade1


    Call in to your local sorting office instead of ringing customer service.
    Or have you tried asking your postman about it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭ beveragelady


    blade1 wrote: »
    Call in to your local sorting office instead of ringing customer service.
    Or have you tried asking your postman about it?

    It's sorted out now, it was definitely a customer service issue. I hardly ever see the postman, the postbox is a bit away from the house.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭ View


    To ask the obvious question, why should they use it?

    An Post did not want it, the current system works for them due to their extensive network. It is other companies who benefit from it as they can use it to make deliveries in parallel to and faster than An Post.

    So, if An Post just turn a blind eye to Eircode - an optional addressing part - it might wither on the vine, leaving them with the old no post code system which would suit them.

    It is only if a Post Code is mandatory for all deliveries and address that all must use it.

    Since we have never manage to even standardise our (non post code) addressing system, much less make such a system mandatory, there is fat chance of our new Eircode being made mandatory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,889 ✭✭✭✭ murphaph


    The thing is (and I believe Eircode is a sub optimal solution and could have been fairly easily improved upon) we have the state creating Eircodes and An Post is a state company. An Post should just be told to use Eircodes and that should be the end of it. I am amazed the world regards us so highly when we have postcodes that aren't used by the post office. I won't say "only in Ireland" because there are probably some banana republics in Africa that have the same problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    Give them more than a few weeks to have it 100% implemented, national infrastructure projects can take years to fully roll out.

    Edit: Article's a year old but they have integrated it into their systems, these things take time though to enable fully.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/new-irish-postcodes-to-be-sent-to-2-2m-households-in-spring-2015-1.1776841


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    I wouldn't read much into an experience of one person with one employee of an organisation that employs thousands.

    People have posted letters with only the eircode written on it and An Post have delivere. This proves that the organisation can and indeed will use eircode.

    My own view is that the eircode system is of some use to An Post. It is of much more use to utilities and government agencies, and to couriers who do occasional deliveries to rural areas and so lack the knowledge that An Post staff have from daily rounds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    I thought eircodes were pretty useless to ...until I tried to order a taxi in a rural area


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  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭ Dave_Dublin


    Bray Head wrote: »
    People have posted letters with only the eircode written on it and An Post have delivere. This proves that the organisation can and indeed will use eircode.

    I'm having a problem with deliveries since the Eircodes were introduced.

    I added the Eircode to my address instead of "Dublin 7" since the code starts "D07" and I've been waited nearly 4 weeks for something that should've been here in 4 days!

    The order was in 4 identical boxes with the same exact address on each in the same position on each box.

    Box #1 arrived in 4 days; box #2 arrived the following day but box #3 took THREE WEEKS to arrive and when it did, it had
    "IMPORTANT : Delay caused by incorrect postal address" labels all over it -- one would've sufficed.

    The final box has still not arrived.

    I contacted An Post via their website on Wednesday last but I have not yet received a response.


    My address is in the format :

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin
    D07 XXXX


    --- Previously it would've been always :

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin 7



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    That suggests poor integration at this stage all right, might be worth sending a complaint to An Post.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Or to Eircode.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    Or to Eircode.
    They can't force An Post to speed up integration though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ threeiron




    My address is in the format :

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin
    D07 XXXX


    --- Previously it would've been always :

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin 7



    You should use:

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin 7
    D07 XXXX


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭ mackerski


    threeiron wrote: »
    [/SIZE]

    You should use:

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin 7
    D07 XXXX

    No, An Post should be able to pick up on the D07 in the postal code. Irish addresses are already long enough. Postal codes supersede postal districts, it would be nuts to maintain both.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ threeiron


    mackerski wrote: »
    No, An Post should be able to pick up on the D07 in the postal code. Irish addresses are already long enough. Postal codes supersede postal districts, it would be nuts to maintain both.

    Postal districts only exist in Dublin and they are being retained e.g. Dublin 4.

    Why do you think the parcels were delayed? Could it be because the address did not say Dublin 7?

    An Post software is reading the text address as one item of information and giving preference to it. Hence Dublin on its own prevented their sorting software from working normally. An Post are reading Eircodes as a separate address item.

    I am in sure in time many persons will drop the Dublin 7 but not yet if you want your post delivered on time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    threeiron wrote: »
    Postal districts only exist in Dublin and they are being retained e.g. Dublin 4.

    Why do you think the parcels were delayed? Could it be because the address did not say Dublin 7?

    So what you're saying is that we now have two postcodes?!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Yes, one designed for An Post and one used by An Post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭ SPDUB


    threeiron wrote: »

    Why do you think the parcels were delayed? Could it be because the address did not say Dublin 7?

    An Post software is reading the text address as one item of information and giving preference to it. Hence Dublin on its own prevented their sorting software from working normally. An Post are reading Eircodes as a separate address item.

    Most parcels are still handsorted so software probably has nothing to do with it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ threeiron


    AngryLips wrote: »
    So what you're saying is that we now have two postcodes?!

    In Dublin you have postal districts and now you also have postcodes.

    SPDUB wrote: »
    Most parcels are still handsorted so software probably has nothing to do with it.

    probably? We don't know whether these were put through the automatic sorting process but if they were then Dublin on its own is unlikely to pass through unless the road name was unique. Without knowing the actual address on the parcel, we are just speculating and hence I am applying logic to my speculation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭ AngryLips


    threeiron wrote: »
    In Dublin you have postal districts and now you also have postcodes

    Then why incorporate the postal districts into the postcode? Postcodes have replaced the postal districts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭ mackerski


    Let me try this again...
    threeiron wrote: »
    Postal districts only exist in Dublin and they are being retained e.g. Dublin 4.

    Thank you, I know what a postal district is. It's clear that they remain a viable unit against which An Post can plan deliveries. So I think we are agreed that the districts will continue to "exist". But I dispute that they should have to be flagged twice in every Dublin address label...
    threeiron wrote: »
    Why do you think the parcels were delayed? Could it be because the address did not say Dublin 7?

    If I were a betting man, I'd bet that this was the reason. But I'm making some claims that to me are unrelated to whether or not this is so:

    1. That the D07 at the beginning of the postal code asserts the postal district in a sufficiently unambiguous manner that there should be no requirement for a separate articulation in the form of an address line reading "Dublin 7".

    2. That the best path to adoption of the postal code is to encourage the public to consider it as an extension of the postal district whose importance they already understand. Not as a separate unrelated item.

    3. That the last time a postal service added postal codes to a system that had, in larger towns and cities, used postal districts previously (the UK, from which we inherited the Dublin postal districts), postal codes replaced postal districts instead of augmenting them.

    4. That lots of the places in the world that expect you to enter your postal city (airline booking sites most prominently) reject numbers but do have a field for a postal code, so there is a great freedom from being able to discard the district number from the city field.

    5. That there is, quite literally, a whole world full of people who don't expect to have to address a letter "Dublin 7, D07 ABCD" (and therefore probably won't) but who are well used to addressing one "Dublin, D07 ABCD".

    6. That An Post has had plenty of time to adjust their address scanners to handle gracefully the case where one address line reads "Dublin" and another contains a 7-digit code beginning Dnn or D6W. So there's no real excuse for failing to sort addresses expressed in this (as I've outlined above) extremely reasonable and predictable format.
    threeiron wrote: »
    An Post software is reading the text address as one item of information and giving preference to it. Hence Dublin on its own prevented their sorting software from working normally. An Post are reading Eircodes as a separate address item.

    Unless you have insider knowledge, you can't know this (though I tend to agree with your assumption). What I'm saying is that this is daft behaviour that they have to fix soon.
    threeiron wrote: »
    I am in sure in time many persons will drop the Dublin 7 but not yet if you want your post delivered on time.

    Notwithstanding that the official addresses we are seeing in the postal code finder do retain the Dublin nn format, It's a bad thing and needs to be whacked ASAP.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ threeiron


    Here's what Liam O'Sullivan said at the Oireachtas last November:

    One of the principal tenets set by the Department in selecting a code is that people should not have to change their current address. This is related to the Chairman's point about sense of place and attachment to place. The Dublin postal districts are viewed by residents living in those areas as part of their current addresses. To attempt to change or remove Dublin 4 would be the equivalent of taking away the name of a town for people who live in provincial Ireland. It does no violence to people's current addresses and it is carried into the code as designed.

    He also talked about how they will use Eircodes both in their automatic and manual sorting. The Oireachtas meetings were thoroughly discussed on Boards at the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 707 Bayberry


    threeiron wrote: »
    Here's what Liam O'Sullivan said at the Oireachtas last November:

    One of the principal tenets set by the Department in selecting a code is that people should not have to change their current address. This is related to the Chairman's point about sense of place and attachment to place.
    Unless they live in Clare or Roscommon or Kilkenny or dozens of towns around the country, in which case their addresses won't be be changed, they'll just be informed that they've been using the wrong address all along!
    He also talked about how they will use Eircodes both in their automatic and manual sorting. The Oireachtas meetings were thoroughly discussed on Boards at the time.
    He told the committee what they wanted to hear. Nobody is going to bother their arse asking him to come back and account for the fact that An Post haven't actually implemented any of this (and no, An Post didn't have to wait for eircodes to be delivered tp end users before reconfiguring their systems to use eircodes) and either commit to a date for full implementation, or just admit that An Post aren't really bothered either way, because eircode doesn't actually deliver any real benefit to An Post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    Bayberry wrote: »
    and no, An Post didn't have to wait for eircodes to be delivered tp end users before reconfiguring their systems to use eircodes)
    Unless they had to wait till the 12th if Eircode are treating them the same as any other customer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 707 Bayberry


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Unless they had to wait till the 12th if Eircode are treating them the same as any other customer.

    Seriously? You're not in the least bit perturbed by the apparent fact that something that is being sold to the public as a postcode was delivered to the public by the postal service, but that the postal service wasn't given access to the database in time to facilitate the use of this supposed post code?

    The words pissup and brewery come to mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,981 ✭✭✭ TheChizler


    Bayberry wrote: »
    Seriously? You're not in the least bit perturbed by the apparent fact that something that is being sold to the public as a postcode was delivered to the public by the postal service, but that the postal service wasn't given access to the database in time to facilitate the use of this supposed post code?

    The words pissup and brewery come to mind.
    Not at all. Could be that it gives them a chance to fix errors by applying individual's feedback to the database. Also I feel companies would be hesitant to purchase the database unless the government were totally committed to rollout, and posting out codes would be the point of no return. I'd be slow to pour money into supporting something that nobody was using, or could use, yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭ Poulgorm


    I spoke to my local postman yesterday morning - I live in a rural area - no house number or house name. He says that the new Eircodes are not used by them - they have no device in the van to use them. And he is not aware of any plans by An Post to install such equipment.

    I only raised the question with him, because I discovered that a letter, intended for my daughter, was returned to sender by An Post. The problem arose because the postman was not aware of her new surname - just recently married. I asked the postman if the address had the Eircode on it, would the letter have been delivered. No, he replied, it would not have been delivered - the Eircode makes no difference.

    I know this postman well, over the years and he is a very conscientious lad - always goes the extra mile to be helpful.

    The problem described above is the exact issue that the Eircode was meant to solve. Or so they told us at the time of its introduction.

    If delivery companies are refusing to use the Eircode, then there must a problem with some aspect of the codes - clearly, the delivery companies have looked at the possibility of using them and have decided that the advantages do NOT outweigh the disadvantages.

    Some civil servant will get a promotion out of this yet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭ Dave_Dublin


    I'm having a problem with deliveries since the Eircodes were introduced.

    I added the Eircode to my address instead of "Dublin 7" since the code starts "D07" and I've been waited nearly 4 weeks for something that should've been here in 4 days!

    The order was in 4 identical boxes with the same exact address on each in the same position on each box.

    Box #1 arrived in 4 days; box #2 arrived the following day but box #3 took THREE WEEKS to arrive and when it did, it had
    "IMPORTANT : Delay caused by incorrect postal address" labels all over it -- one would've sufficed.

    The final box has still not arrived.

    I contacted An Post via their website on Wednesday last but I have not yet received a response.


    My address is in the format :

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin
    D07 XXXX


    --- Previously it would've been always :

    XXX Road Name
    Dublin 7


    UPDATE :

    My final box did arrive but it was 7 WEEKS after the dispatch date.

    An Post did answer me by email and wanted photos of the boxes and a copy of the order form and proof of postage from the sender.
    I provided all and they said they would "look into this matter" -- I haven't heard from them since...

    I dealt with THREE different people by email and ALL THREE have the following as the footer in the emails:

    (Name), Customer Services, An Post, Ground Floor, GPO, D01 F5P2, Ireland

    --- NO "Dublin 1" or even "Dublin" as part of THEIR address!



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