Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

ukoda

https://twitter.com/gelcowebdesign/status/697795528101400578

TheChizler

Mountainsandh wrote: »

having to look up an Eircode to access your old weekly specials, or supply your full address, both sound like complete turn offs. I can hear it in my colleagues', friends and family members' voices : "ahhh now. Too much hassle".
None of whom know their own Eircode to input in the first place.

Who's suggesting that it would be mandatory whenever you use the site? It would be used when you're unfamiliar with the locality and don't know where the local Lidl/whatever us.

BoatMad

Mountainsandh wrote: »

You don't seem to have read my post I'm afraid, please do so again.

The suggestions to use a local post office, or a neighbour's Eircode are once again cumbersome. I would in that situation have to open another tab, look up someone or some place's Eircode, then go back to my lidl page, tick/untick some small print, paste or type Eircode ; instead of simply typing in a set of 5 or so digits and clicking enter. These things matter in the internet world, "ain't nobody got time for that" comes to mind.
And that's my viewpoint, I'm in my 40s, love using the internet, not paranoid ; from a slightly older or generally less internet oriented person's perspective, having to look up an Eircode to access your old weekly specials, or supply your full address, both sound like complete turn offs. I can hear it in my colleagues', friends and family members' voices : "ahhh now. Too much hassle".
None of whom know their own Eircode to input in the first place.

.

These discussions are all " perceptions" , I'm sure what your colleagues do, is down to them and not what you " think" they will do.

No doubt any company will offer either postcode lookup or town lookup , users can decide as appropriate. Personally, typing in 7 digits, is very fast.

People will remember their postcodes as they see it more and more.

In fact , asking my friends, more now know it then 6 months ago

ukoda

BoatMad wrote: »

In fact , asking my friends, more now know it then 6 months ago

i would agree with this, i hear it being talked about more and more, i think the talk of google maps using it has sparked a lot of peoples interest. i would imagine thats why (per my post above of the website company) more companies want to get their eircode out there for people to see and use

plodder

BoatMad wrote: »

These discussions are all " perceptions" , I'm sure what your colleagues do, is down to them and not what you " think" they will do.

No doubt any company will offer either postcode lookup or town lookup , users can decide as appropriate. Personally, typing in 7 digits, is very fast.

People will remember their postcodes as they see it more and more.

In fact , asking my friends, more now know it then 6 months ago

So, what he says is 'perception', but what you say is 'fact'? :cool:

BoatMad

plodder wrote: »

So, what he says is 'perception', but what you say is 'fact'? :cool:

No, He "speculated" that his colleagues etc, he didn't say he asked them. I said I asked them. His is a perception , mine is a fact ( within the bounds of truth on boards ). He admitted his is speculation in the form of words he used "I can hear it in my colleagues', friends and family members' voices : "ahhh now. Too much hassle"." thats simply speculation

His speculation may be valid, thats an entirely different point. but it remains speculation or a perception on his part

BoatMad

ukoda wrote: »

i would agree with this, i hear it being talked about more and more, i think the talk of google maps using it has sparked a lot of peoples interest. i would imagine thats why (per my post above of the website company) more companies want to get their eircode out there for people to see and use

given the use people make of Google maps, I use it for example several times a day, it will bring Eircode to the masses.

I recently had to drive to the wilds of Meath , a county I dont know well, ( being in the sunny south east dont you know). The mess of entering town lands, phoning the person to try to pinpoint the address better, he eventually gave me a lat long , which is equally cumbersome to type in.

ah the bliss in a few months , when I can type a 7 digit code and get to his door

oscarBravo

BoatMad wrote: »

ah the bliss in a few months , when I can type a 7 digit code and get to his door

You can do that today. Type it into finder.eircode.ie and let it open Google Maps for you.

BoatMad

oscarBravo wrote: »

You can do that today. Type it into finder.eircode.ie and let it open Google Maps for you.

you learn something new every day , go Eircode !

ukoda

oscarBravo wrote: »

You can do that today. Type it into finder.eircode.ie and let it open Google Maps for you.

true, but it does require an extra step, and being able to plug an eircode directly into google maps app is a lot more appealing

gizmo555

ukoda wrote: »

true, but it does require an extra step, and being able to plug an eircode directly into google maps app is a lot more appealing

And it also requires internet connectivity, which may or may not be available. This is a kludge.

BoatMad

gizmo555 wrote: »

And it also requires internet connectivity, which may or may not be available. This is a kludge.

as we technically progress , this will not be a problem, you project forward , not look back.

Today, I get 4G and 3G, rural areas that a year or two ago where a wasteland. I use spotify in my car, two years ago I would find breaks in its reception everywhere, now its few and far between

Internet connectivity via any number of means is rapidly expanding , It makes complete sense to have a online system


NOTE: Eircode can be resolved without internet , via a local database of course

but of course its a " kludge", but Hey " US tanks are not in Baghdad, as they roar over your foot"

oscarBravo

ukoda wrote: »

true, but it does require an extra step, and being able to plug an eircode directly into google maps app is a lot more appealing

Absolutely. I'm looking forward to full Google integration; just pointing out that it's possible to use Eircodes for navigation already.

gizmo555 wrote: »

And it also requires internet connectivity, which may or may not be available.

As does Google Maps.

gizmo555

BoatMad wrote: »

as we technically progress , this will not be a problem, you project forward , not look back.

There is a very large number of satnav systems in use which aren't online. Are these all to be scrapped so their owners can use Eircode?

BoatMad wrote: »

Internet connectivity via any number is means is rapidly expanding , It makes complete sense to have a online system

IMO it makes no sense that the system's unusable if connectivity is unavailable for whatever reason.

BoatMad wrote: »

NOTE: Eircode can be resolved without internet , via a local database of course

Which isn't currently available for ordinary satnav users, and we don't know if or when it will be, nor what the cost may be if it is.

gizmo555

oscarBravo wrote: »

As does Google Maps.

Which is one of the main reasons Google Maps itself is not much good for navigation, compared for example to Here Maps, which has for years allowed you to download maps for the entire world to your phone for offline use, free of charge.

Even if one could directly search Google Maps right now using Eircodes, that would not in my view be an adequate solution.

ukoda

The version of the eircode database that's needed to use eircode for navigation offline is about 20MB, so while google maps is an online service (although it does offer you the ability to access your frequent areas offline) there is scope for any and all offline navigation apps to integrate eircode for full offline use requiring zero internet connectivity

BoatMad

here is scope for any and all offline navigation apps to integrate eircode for full offline use requiring zero internet connectivity

which is exactly what Garmin is doing

BoatMad

here is scope for any and all offline navigation apps to integrate eircode for full offline use requiring zero internet connectivity

which is exactly what Garmin is doing

ukoda

BoatMad wrote: »

which is exactly what Garmin is doing

It will be interesting to see who is first to market with a navigation solution for eircode, my money is on google maps.

Both the major sat nav companies have publicly confirmed adoption of eircode, but are reluctant to give a date for launch, I suspect this is partly to do with not affecting their sales, I.e. If word got out that eircode was coming to Garmin in say 2 months, then im sure they'd see a dip in sales as people would want to wait for an eircode enabled device, although I'm also sure they'll offer eircode as an update for all older sat navs too

BoatMad

ukoda wrote: »

It will be interesting to see who is first to market with a navigation solution for eircode, my money is on google maps.

Both the major sat nav companies have publicly confirmed adoption of eircode, but are reluctant to give a date for launch, I suspect this is partly to do with not affecting their sales, I.e. If word got out that eircode was coming to Garmin in say 2 months, then im sure they'd see a dip in sales as people would want to wait for an eircode enabled device, although I'm also sure they'll offer eircode as an update for all older sat navs too

Im under NDAs here, but I know Google Maps isn't far away. Garmins release is more a functional of its update cycle , rather then the things you say, as most existing satnavs of recent vintage can be updated with new Software

ukoda

BoatMad wrote: »

Im under NDAs here, but I know Google Maps isn't far away. Garmins release is more a functional of its update cycle , rather then the things you say, as most existing satnavs of recent vintage can be updated with new Software

Not to ask you to violate an NDA, but.... Is "not far away" equal to days, weeks, months, 6 months?

BoatMad

ukoda wrote: »

Not to ask you to violate an NDA, but.... Is "not far away" equal to days, weeks, months, 6 months?

I cant possibly comment ......:)

ukoda

BoatMad wrote: »

I cant possibly comment ......:)

Worth a try anyway!

Given that Google maps have previously bought the geodirectory, I would imagine it's a pretty easy implemation for them, the hardest part might be matching it to the other data sources they have. But I guess the really easy way to do it is just translate the eircode to a geo location and display the pre exssiting addresses they have in their database at that location

BoatMad

ukoda wrote: »

Worth a try anyway!

Given that Google maps have previously bought the geodirectory, I would imagine it's a pretty easy implemation for them, the hardest part might be matching it to the other data sources they have. But I guess the really easy way to do it is just translate the eircode to a geo location and display the pre exssiting addresses they have in their database at that location

despite uniformed comment to the contrary , the technical issues are relatively trivial . Eircode was designed for computer integration. The major delays, especially in Google case was the licensing terms and the associated costs. This is a major weakness of the Eircode system and As far as I know is being resolved.

In my view the Gov should compensate the operator of Eircode and simply offer licenses to approved bodies for free. They also need to remove from GeoDirectories any hand act or part that the OSI and AnPost play

But I guess the really easy way to do it is just translate the eircode to a geo location and display the pre exssiting addresses they have in their database at that location

I cant possibly comment, but that seems an entirely reasonable thing to do

in fact for general navigation , rather then address lookup, you only need the Eircode and its matching GeoDirectory co-ords. you dont need address match at all. Address match is a bonus. ( This is easily accessed as you can just display the GeoDirectory address, even if it means the database gets larger)

Some of the issues in integration is that some mapping software isn't using GeoDirectories and are using private databases that dont correspond, again this is down primarily to licensing costs rather then technical issues, in the same way that Ireland was late to the table with digital mapping because of the OSIs crazy licensing costs. They were subsequently bypassed when two mapping companies built their own licenser free maps.

marmurr1916

Mountainsandh wrote: »

The suggestions to use a local post office, or a neighbour's Eircode are once again cumbersome. I would in that situation have to open another tab, look up someone or some place's Eircode, then go back to my lidl page, tick/untick some small print, paste or type Eircode ; instead of simply typing in a set of 5 or so digits and clicking enter. These things matter in the internet world, "ain't nobody got time for that" comes to mind.

It's a set of seven characters - after you've looked up the Eircode once you can store it somewhere (or if you use Chrome, just make sure that autofill is turned on and every time you go to enter it, Chrome will suggest the full Eircode) or you could simply remember it (remember when people used to remember stuff?) for future use.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And that's my viewpoint, I'm in my 40s, love using the internet, not paranoid ; from a slightly older or generally less internet oriented person's perspective, having to look up an Eircode to access your old weekly specials, or supply your full address, both sound like complete turn offs. I can hear it in my colleagues', friends and family members' voices : "ahhh now. Too much hassle".
None of whom know their own Eircode to input in the first place.

I'm the same vintage as you and I've got no problem putting my 7 character UK postcode into websites to do just that.

When I moved into my house I didn't know the postcode so I had to look it up. Once I used it a few times I remembered it and no longer have to look it up. The same will apply if you start using an Eircode, unless you've got a memory like a sieve.

If you prefer to fart around with maps to find your nearest store or prefer to enter your full postal address instead of your Eircode, that's your business.

Personally I think those methods are too much hassle. Each to his own.

marmurr1916

BoatMad wrote: »

These discussions are all " perceptions" , I'm sure what your colleagues do, is down to them and not what you " think" they will do.

No doubt any company will offer either postcode lookup or town lookup , users can decide as appropriate. Personally, typing in 7 digits, is very fast.

People will remember their postcodes as they see it more and more.

In fact , asking my friends, more now know it then 6 months ago

I prefer using my postcode rather than typing in the name of the town where I live (which isn't unique to this county, I have to choose one of several towns from a list if I do that) or putting in my full address, which is obviously slower than simply typing in my postcode.

BoatMad

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I prefer using my postcode rather than typing in the name of the town where I live (which isn't unique to this county, I have to choose one of several towns from a list if I do that) or putting in my full address, which is obviously slower than simply typing in my postcode.

then you are entirely free to offer it.

oscarBravo

gizmo555 wrote: »

Which is one of the main reasons Google Maps itself is not much good for navigation...

And yet it's the only navigation solution used by my company, whose business is almost entirely in relatively sparsely-populated rural areas.

Even if one could directly search Google Maps right now using Eircodes, that would not in my view be an adequate solution.

Why am I not surprised?

gizmo555

oscarBravo wrote: »

And yet it's the only navigation solution used by my company, whose business is almost entirely in relatively sparsely-populated rural areas.

Yeah, well this is consistent with your position throughout these discussions, which could be summed up as "I'm happy with Eircode, therefore anyone else's criticism is by definition invalid."

One simple reason why relying on an online-only solution such as Google Maps is inadequate is that foreign tourists using it on their phones are likely to incur hefty roaming data charges. I know the EU is planning to abolish these next year, but that's no help to visitors from outside the EU.

By contrast, for example, I'm going to France on holiday this summer. I can download a map of France to my phone's Here Maps app before I go and get offline turn-by-turn navigation completely free of charge.

An online-only solution is also of no use whatever to all the existing satnav systems which don't incorporate internet access.

ukoda

gizmo555 wrote: »

Yeah, well this is consistent with your position throughout these discussions, which could be summed up as "I'm happy with Eircode, therefore anyone else's criticism is by definition invalid."

One simple reason why relying on an online-only solution such as Google Maps is inadequate is that foreign tourists using it on their phones are likely to incur hefty roaming data charges. I know the EU is planning to abolish these next year, but that's no help to visitors from outside the EU.

By contrast, for example, I'm going to France on holiday this summer. I can download a map of France to my phone's Here Maps app before I go and get offline turn-by-turn navigation completely free of charge.

An online-only solution is also of no use whatever to all the existing satnav systems which don't incorporate internet access.

Do you not read the posts here?


GOOGLE MAPS is an ONLINE service.

EIRCODE is NOT an online only solution.

Eircode can be integrated with any and all OFFLINE mapping and navigation services.

There's is NOTHING in the design of eircode stopping people making a new offline navigation app with it integrated, or adding it to any and all currently available offline navigation devices

That means HERE maps can have eircode added to them for an entirely offline solution

If you want to discuss the pros and cons of offline v's online navigation apps. Start a new thread. Because it has nothing to do with eircode.