Gameweek 2 Captain

CSF

TheDazzler wrote: »

I don't know if the quote comes form Shearer, I'm quoting from your post;

"Alan Shearer, the PL's highest scorer, has come out and said that himself. He said you can't help but feel a sense of anticipation going to certain grounds or playing teams where you know you've performed well before."

I am making the point that anything that Alan Shearer has to say in the realms of sports psychology can be discounted due to the fact that he is a cretin.
He may have been a tremendous footballer but he doesn't have the intelligence to understand why. And he certainly doesn't have the ability to convey anything of value to the viewer. Other than perhaps, "Rooney hasn't scored in 6 here at Villa Park."
I am saying that "a sense of anticipation" does not presuppose performance. It's the sort of nonsensical cliched garbage that Shearer would spout.

You brought up the Suarez vs Norwich example. We all knew that example was going to be brought up, didn't we? Why? Coz it's the one outstanding example.
Suarez scored 11 in 4 against Norwich. Pretty explosive.

Suarez did that against Norwich over the space of 2 years.
A poor side, likely to concede against a rampant Pool side. Pool scored higher than their goal expectation over the period and Suarez scored higher than his individual 25-30% individual contribution. Impressive.
But he didn't do it against Chelsea, did he? Why was it that it was the worst team in the league, "that he liked playing against"?
Because they were the worst team in the league.
But yes, Suarez probably had a psychological edge over Norwich due to the fact that those games were all played within a short enough window. The teams would have been similar, his opponents would have similar.

Do I believe in confidence? Yes, I do.
If you score in 10 consecutive games, I think you're possibly more likely to score in the 11th.
I do think confidence and form is overstated hugely but I believe it plays a part.
However a teams current form/confidence (last 6 matches) would be much more important than historical form (games from 8 years ago!).


This is not the case with Rooney and Villa. You're taking into account games from 8, 7, 6 and 5 years ago. They are irrelevant.
I wouldn't be surprised if Rooney isn't even aware of the '0 in 6' stat. He probably thinks, "I've 9 in 13 against Villa. I like playing them."

I know past performance is an indicator of future performance.
I don't dispute that. So long as factors remain constant.
You understand that saying that because Preston North End were the most successful team in the 1880s and that they have a winning record over Man Utd*, that they would be favourites if Preston met Man Utd. You understand that that's nonsense, right?
Why? Because it would be misusing and misunderstanding completely out of date stats.
Which is what 0 in 6 at Villa Park is.

Captaining Suarez against Norwich? How astute. I think a few of us followed you in on that one though. Not for him, "loving playing Norwich" but the fact that one of the best strikers in the world, in the form of his life, was playing one of the worst teams in the Prem.

Aguero vs Spurs? Again, the best striker in the league playing against a side that plays an open expansive game, instead of parking the bus. We're all on that one too.

But considering you're so keen on these stats, I assume you captained Costa at home to Swansea? That was a banker 2 goals at least.
Costa loves playing against Swansea. You know he scored 5 in 2 against them last year?

Strikers love playing bad teams that gives them chances and goals. They "love playing against" the teams that they score against.



* This is a hypothetical example.

Edit: Regarding an earlier question, I'm not this Miller character.
I'm;
fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/2266/history/ (sorry, I can't link as a new user so you'll need to put in the www. yourself).

The 2nd half of this post is absolutely more aggressive than it needs to be.

RossieMan

What ****e is going on here? I came to see who the captains choice is and find pages of pure and other crap.

TheDazzler

CSF wrote: »

The 2nd half of this post is absolutely more aggressive than it needs to be.

It certainly wasn't the intention. Lighthearted was what I was aiming at.

RossieMan wrote: »

What ****e is going on here? I came to see who the captains choice is and find pages of pure and other crap.

Apologies. My intention was to inform and educate.
I thought rather than picking this weeks best captain, it better to be able to learn how to pick the best captain.

"Give a man a fish, you feed for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life."
(Alan Shearer 2015)

jimmii

I'd hate to see your aggressive posting if that was lighthearted! Welcome to boards all the same always good to see new blood in FSA.

Mr.Prodston

TheDazzler wrote: »

Apologies. My intention was to inform and educate.
I thought rather than picking this weeks best captain, it better to be able to learn how to pick the best captain.

So how do we pick the best captain?

My captaincy choices were rather poor at times last year so any advice and tips would be welcome

FHFC

CSF wrote: »

The 2nd half of this post is absolutely more aggressive than it needs to be.

My biggest problem with it was it took me three whole swipes of my thumb to quickly scroll past it.

Then three most cause you quoted it.

Yaaaaawn

Benimar

RossieMan wrote: »

What ****e is going on here? I came to see who the captains choice is and find pages of pure and other crap.

Apologies, it's my fault for using a stat suggesting Rooney might not be the best option as captain this week!

I won't let it happen again!!

TheDazzler

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

So how do we pick the best captain?

My captaincy choices were rather poor at times last year so any advice and tips would be welcome

Well the number 2 ranked player on the FFS HOF, Triggerlips;
fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/4231/event-history/1/
swears by going by the Wisdom of Crowds;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
and always captains the winner of his captains poll on his own blog;
triggerlips.com/
He previously would have gone by the FFS captains poll.
He's probably one of the best writers on FPL theory out there.

You'll need to add www. to all those links as I can't link, being a new member.

FourFourRED

It's got to be that boy Benteke

Necronomicon

I disagree with everyone, I think it's a really interesting discussion (though I am a boring academic type so it's right up my alley!). The concept of strikers having teams that they perform particularly well against is something I've always sort of passively believed in, but I think there are some good arguments made against it. It's good to have a critical discussions like this and challenge convention IMO.

As to my own captain choice, I'm torn between Sakho and Benteke. Something tells me that West Ham vs. Leicester could be a more open afair - and let's face it, if Leicester conceded two at home to Sunderland it doesn't inspire confidence in their defence. I think Bournemouth, travelling to Anfield and being televised on the Monday Night Football, might give Liverpool a decent test.

Mr.Prodston

TheDazzler wrote: »

Well the number 2 ranked player on the FFS HOF, Triggerlips;
fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/4231/event-history/1/
swears by going by the Wisdom of Crowds;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
and always captains the winner of his captains poll on his own blog;
triggerlips.com/
He previously would have gone by the FFS captains poll.
He's probably one of the best writers on FPL theory out there.

You'll need to add www. to all those links as I can't link, being a new member.

So do you apply the Wisdom of Crowds each week?

What if different crowds gave different answers? You have the FFS poll, Triggerlips poll and our own wise crowd in the FSA among others too.

TheDazzler

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

So do you apply the Wisdom of Crowds each week?

What if different crowds gave different answers? You have the FFS poll, Triggerlips poll and our own wise crowd in the FSA among others too.

I do not. But Trigger is a better player than I am!
Triggers idea is that you will lose too much ground on the majority if you go against the consensus. He is very much into posting solid, consistent scores as opposed to maverick, high risk strategies. He believes rigidly following this strategy is the most optimum way to get him top 1K, which is his aim every year.
I believe in picking what I believe to be the correct choice, whether that is high risk or low risk.
I will often not even look at captains polls. I just did look at the the FFS one and your one here and I'm pretty surprised to see Rooney top. I bought Benteke in my initial draft to be my captain for this week.
Nobodies performance changed my mind over the weekend. If anything, Rooney has dropped from my vice captain to be replaced by Sahko but I'm pretty set on Benteke (c) and happy with it.
If the polls gave the same results (I don't think that's ever happened) then I guess Trigger would pick who he personally felt was best.

Edit: Oh and I'm not very keen on giving the captaincy to an away player. But that's generally a goal expectation issue with away teams invariably scoring less.

CSF

TheDazzler wrote: »

Well the number 2 ranked player on the FFS HOF, Triggerlips;
fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/4231/event-history/1/
swears by going by the Wisdom of Crowds;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds
and always captains the winner of his captains poll on his own blog;
triggerlips.com/
He previously would have gone by the FFS captains poll.
He's probably one of the best writers on FPL theory out there.

You'll need to add www. to all those links as I can't link, being a new member.

Just looked up his history, and that is ridiculously impressive. But that particular nugget of information isn't exactly new thinking or particularly strong strategy. Most weeks the most popular choice will be the correct one. The variance in any given week will determine how safe it is to take that risk. This week there will probably be alot of variance this week (given that no big hitter from last year impressed that much last week and nobody great bar Liverpool has that attractive a home fixture) so not captaining person A wouldn't hurt you in that same way that not captaining Suarez against Norwich would have hurt people.

Weeks like this would absolutely be the ones to go with your own logic rather than the consensus.

Ziegler1988

I read Trigger's blog as well and I think his rule is just to at least own the most highly captained player among serious FPLers. He plays very safe but I remember him getting 32 points out of Rooney(c) on Boxing Day last season that was maverick.
Personally, I think polls are instructive but more so in the 2nd half of the season. I'd rather play my own game and back my judgement than a poll

TheDazzler

CSF wrote: »

Just looked up his history, and that is ridiculously impressive. But that particular nugget of information isn't exactly new thinking or particularly strong strategy. Most weeks the most popular choice will be the correct one. The variance in any given week will determine how safe it is to take that risk. This week there will probably be alot of variance this week (given that no big hitter from last year impressed that much last week and nobody great bar Liverpool has that attractive a home fixture) so not captaining person A wouldn't hurt you in that same way that not captaining Suarez against Norwich would have hurt people.

Weeks like this would absolutely be the ones to go with your own logic rather than the consensus.

I don't know why you would expect it to be new thinking.
All that the best players do, is do the simple things well, all the time.
It is strong strategy for what he wants to achieve, which is top 1K-ish figures. If he embraces variance more, he could finish higher and he could finish lower. He wants less variance and more stable scoring. He thinks a lot about what he's doing!
It looks like there is going to be a split vote this week alright. But I'd imagine one of those two is probably your own logic as well as being the consensus. If it isn't, you might want to look at your own logic

Ziegler1988 wrote: »

I read Trigger's blog as well and I think his rule is just to at least own the most highly captained player among serious FPLers. He plays very safe but I remember him getting 32 points out of Rooney(c) on Boxing Day last season that was maverick.
Personally, I think polls are instructive but more so in the 2nd half of the season. I'd rather play my own game and back my judgement than a poll

I'm pretty sure his rule is captaining, not just owning, the poll winner. If Rooney was his captain on Boxing Day, I presume he won the poll? I'll ask him.
As regards backing your own judgement rather than a poll, I'd agree if you're good at the game and disagree if you're bad at the game!
And then if you're looking for solid, stable scoring then Triggers idea of following the poll is fine too. It depends on your aims.

CSF

TheDazzler wrote: »

I don't know why you would expect it to be new thinking.

Because you were talking (even in a lighthearted manner) about informing and educating. We're not stupid like. Going with popular captains has been mentioned in passing once or twice before.

Dearg81

Has to be Messi for me, I don't even care if his goals get me zero points ;-)

manual_man

No PVA option...?

FHFC

manual_man wrote: »

No PVA option...?

Asuming this post will be in every captain poll thread somewhere, like where's wally!!

Not really fancying the captain options at my disposal this week. Kane probably the pick for me. Rooney meh. Aguero probably not ready yet, may only get 60min.

Might just be the week for a punt like Payet given the variance.

tomaussie

I'll put this to bed.

If you don't realise that players (in any sport) have favourite teams / players to play against, then you have never played any sport. Simple. This is also true for individual sport and locations.

Also, if you are not captaining Benteke this week then put down the crack pipe.

Lemlin

TheDazzler wrote: »

I don't know if the quote comes form Shearer, I'm quoting from your post;

"Alan Shearer, the PL's highest scorer, has come out and said that himself. He said you can't help but feel a sense of anticipation going to certain grounds or playing teams where you know you've performed well before."

I am making the point that anything that Alan Shearer has to say in the realms of sports psychology can be discounted due to the fact that he is a cretin.
He may have been a tremendous footballer but he doesn't have the intelligence to understand why. And he certainly doesn't have the ability to convey anything of value to the viewer. Other than perhaps, "Rooney hasn't scored in 6 here at Villa Park."
I am saying that "a sense of anticipation" does not presuppose performance. It's the sort of nonsensical cliched garbage that Shearer would spout.

You brought up the Suarez vs Norwich example. We all knew that example was going to be brought up, didn't we? Why? Coz it's the one outstanding example.
Suarez scored 11 in 4 against Norwich. Pretty explosive.

Suarez did that against Norwich over the space of 2 years.
A poor side, likely to concede against a rampant Pool side. Pool scored higher than their goal expectation over the period and Suarez scored higher than his individual 25-30% individual contribution. Impressive.
But he didn't do it against Chelsea, did he? Why was it that it was the worst team in the league, "that he liked playing against"?
Because they were the worst team in the league.
But yes, Suarez probably had a psychological edge over Norwich due to the fact that those games were all played within a short enough window. The teams would have been similar, his opponents would have similar.

Do I believe in confidence? Yes, I do.
If you score in 10 consecutive games, I think you're possibly more likely to score in the 11th.
I do think confidence and form is overstated hugely but I believe it plays a part.
However a teams current form/confidence (last 6 matches) would be much more important than historical form (games from 8 years ago!).


This is not the case with Rooney and Villa. You're taking into account games from 8, 7, 6 and 5 years ago. They are irrelevant.
I wouldn't be surprised if Rooney isn't even aware of the '0 in 6' stat. He probably thinks, "I've 9 in 13 against Villa. I like playing them."

I know past performance is an indicator of future performance.
I don't dispute that. So long as factors remain constant.
You understand that saying that because Preston North End were the most successful team in the 1880s and that they have a winning record over Man Utd*, that they would be favourites if Preston met Man Utd. You understand that that's nonsense, right?
Why? Because it would be misusing and misunderstanding completely out of date stats.
Which is what 0 in 6 at Villa Park is.

Captaining Suarez against Norwich? How astute. I think a few of us followed you in on that one though. Not for him, "loving playing Norwich" but the fact that one of the best strikers in the world, in the form of his life, was playing one of the worst teams in the Prem.

Aguero vs Spurs? Again, the best striker in the league playing against a side that plays an open expansive game, instead of parking the bus. We're all on that one too.

But considering you're so keen on these stats, I assume you captained Costa at home to Swansea? That was a banker 2 goals at least.
Costa loves playing against Swansea. You know he scored 5 in 2 against them last year?

Strikers love playing bad teams that gives them chances and goals. They "love playing against" the teams that they score against.

* This is a hypothetical example.

Edit: Regarding an earlier question, I'm not this Miller character.
I'm;
fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/2266/history/ (sorry, I can't link as a new user so you'll need to put in the www. yourself).

Have you read many footballer's autobiographies? Do so and you'll constantly see mention of grounds they liked playing at, clubs they liked playing etc. Why? Often because of past performance.

For example, Roy Keane mentions in his last book that Fergie once gave a team talk at White Hart Lane by saying "lads, it's Spurs". That was all he had to say - United had come to see Spurs over the years as a team that would fold.

Another example - Gary Neville. Ferguson had to pull him aside before a game against Liverpool and tell him to tone it down. Neville was consistently getting worked up against them over the years and Fergie felt it was affecting his performance.

Thierry Henry has spoken about Shay Given being a goalkeeper that he found it very hard to score against during his career. I could go on and on and on with examples.

You're completely disregarding the whole area of sports psychology. Players are going to associate past positive experiences with future meetings. It's only natural to. Most of us do the same thing everyday in our jobs.

Spurs were far from the worst team in the League over the past few years. Very little also remained constant at Spurs with changes of mangers and players.

I don't really see the crux of your point re strikers liking playing against poor teams. Of course they do because, if anything, they have probably had previously good performances against said poor teams like Suarez, therefore reinforcing the point I and other posters are making.

Nobody is looking at stats from the 1880s either so that example is ridiculous. People are looking at Rooney's career stats against Villa which will have an effect on his psychological view of playing against them. You say Rooney wouldn't even be aware of these stats - like I said, read a few footballer's books and you'll be surprised what they remember.

Now I'm not saying past performance should be your number one indicator for a captain choice. I, myself, as you go on to suggest, generally use captaincy polls and they led me to select Rooney last week. Did I consider Costa? Yes I did. Did I remember that he scored 5 in 2 against Swansea last year? I did consider it but it was not an overriding factor.

GetWithIt

Also, I remember a particular time Roy Race was playing a match against some keeper he'd never scored against. It was his last ever match (again) and knew this was his final opportunity to score.

He kept telling himself to shoot low and close to the keeper cos that was his weakness but every time would bottle his chances.

In the last minute he got a bang to noggin but played on. A ball dropped to him. He spanked it and it flew into the top corner. Afterwards the 2 embraced, as great players exiting the stage do, and Roy admitted that in that moment his mind went blank and instincts took over. Proving conclusively how much psychology plays for even the greatest players.

True story.

Benimar

FHFC wrote: »

Asuming this post will be in every captain poll thread somewhere, like where's wally!!

Not really fancying the captain options at my disposal this week. Kane probably the pick for me. Rooney meh. Aguero probably not ready yet, may only get 60min.

Might just be the week for a punt like Payet given the variance.

Thinking something similar. Not happy putting it on any of my front 3 (Rooney, Aguero, Deeney) so thinking of gambling on Mane.

I'm usually all for the 'safe' captain option but I don't have Benteke or Kane and Rooney doesn't appeal to me (in so many ways!!)

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/barneyrednews/status/631437192431312897

Taxuser1

extra gravy wrote: »

On Benteke now but tempted to take a punt on Sakho.

that's what the wife said

jimmii

Taxuser1 wrote: »

that's what the wife said

That must have been awkward.

TheDazzler

Lemlin wrote: »

Have you read many footballer's autobiographies? Do so and you'll constantly see mention of grounds they liked playing at, clubs they liked playing etc. Why? Often because of past performance.

For example, Roy Keane mentions in his last book that Fergie once gave a team talk at White Hart Lane by saying "lads, it's Spurs". That was all he had to say - United had come to see Spurs over the years as a team that would fold.

Another example - Gary Neville. Ferguson had to pull him aside before a game against Liverpool and tell him to tone it down. Neville was consistently getting worked up against them over the years and Fergie felt it was affecting his performance.

Thierry Henry has spoken about Shay Given being a goalkeeper that he found it very hard to score against during his career. I could go on and on and on with examples.

You're completely disregarding the whole area of sports psychology. Players are going to associate past positive experiences with future meetings. It's only natural to. Most of us do the same thing everyday in our jobs.

Spurs were far from the worst team in the League over the past few years. Very little also remained constant at Spurs with changes of mangers and players.

I don't really see the crux of your point re strikers liking playing against poor teams. Of course they do because, if anything, they have probably had previously good performances against said poor teams like Suarez, therefore reinforcing the point I and other posters are making.

Nobody is looking at stats from the 1880s either so that example is ridiculous. People are looking at Rooney's career stats against Villa which will have an effect on his psychological view of playing against them. You say Rooney wouldn't even be aware of these stats - like I said, read a few footballer's books and you'll be surprised what they remember.

Now I'm not saying past performance should be your number one indicator for a captain choice. I, myself, as you go on to suggest, generally use captaincy polls and they led me to select Rooney last week. Did I consider Costa? Yes I did. Did I remember that he scored 5 in 2 against Swansea last year? I did consider it but it was not an overriding factor.

I have addressed why I think players have favourite grounds.
With the benefit of hindsight, they are saying they enjoyed playing at the grounds that they did well at. It's confirmation and hindsight bias.
I am saying they enjoyed playing at Villa Park (for example) BECAUSE they scored at Villa Park.
You seem to be saying that they scored at Villa Park because they enjoyed playing at Villa Park.
You may think that's the same thing. I would say it isn't and you've got the cart before the horse.


I am not disregarding the whole area of sports psychology. I believe it is overstated but I believe it plays a part.
I am also not suggesting that past performance can't predict future performance. I believe it's overstated but I believe it plays a part.

However, all the above is subjective and arguable on both sides. I have my view and others have theirs. I am happy to agree to disagree.
That's all fine but we've reached this point as people have gone off on tangents from my original point.

---

The 0 in 6 is a useless stat.
Anyone discarding Rooney on the basis of that stat is making a mistake.
It is my belief that most people don't understand stats very well at all and Fantasy players, who really need to understand this stuff, are rarely any better.
With a backround in poker and sportbetting, I think I have a better handle on stats than most although I do not claim to be an expert.


You seem to suggest (due to you having read footballers autobiographies) that he will be aware of the stat and it will negatively affect his performance. ("which will have an effect on his psychological view....")
This is highly questionable.
Firstly neither of us know whether he is aware of it or not.

Secondly, what is the point here?
He has 0 in 6 as he dislikes playing specifically at Villa Park? Even though he quite like playing Villa overall with 9 in 13?
Which is more reasonable? That it's a small statistical anomoly or that Villa Park itself is a problem for him?

Or because he now has 0 in 6 at Villa Park, he is in danger of this becoming a self fulfilling prophesy, as he will be tense? Or?

And even if we accept that Rooney both knows the stat and that the knowing of the stat will affect his game in some way, why would it lessen his game?
Why wouldn't it motivate him to "put that right"?
Various matchups will affect players in different ways.
Keane raised his game versus Arsenal, Neville lost his edge versus Pool.
Why doesn't that stat makes it MORE likely Rooney will score than normal?

I have suggested a reasonable statistical expectation for Rooney in those 6 games would be 2 goals. So to have 0 is not such a big statistical anomoly.
And we can mostly discard the games at Villa Park played in 2007-12. How can games played 7 or 8 years ago have any bearing on a game that will be played on Friday?

Probably the only players in common between all those games will be Rooney and Agbonlahor.
The example from the 1880s was of course an extreme example but the point stands. The stats are out of date and therefore mostly useless.
If we move to a bigger statistical sample, we find he has 9 in 13.
So Rooney loves playing Villa!
And as someone has helpfully pointed out in another thread, of Rooneys last 121 goals, 68 have been at home and 53 away.
That actually indicates that he is probably scoring a slightly higher proportion of Uniteds away goals than Uniteds home goals.

---

Apologies to all those that find this discussion tedious.
If this forum doesn't have an appetite for this sort of discussion, I'm happy to leave it there.

FHFC

TheDazzler wrote: »

I have addressed why I think players have favourite grounds.
With the benefit of hindsight, they are saying they enjoyed playing at the grounds that they did well at. It's confirmation and hindsight bias.
I am saying they enjoyed playing at Villa Park (for example) BECAUSE they scored at Villa Park.
You seem to be saying that they scored at Villa Park because they enjoyed playing at Villa Park.
You may think that's the same thing. I would say it isn't and you've got the cart before the horse.


I am not disregarding the whole area of sports psychology. I believe it is overstated but I believe it plays a part.
I am also not suggesting that past performance can't predict future performance. I believe it's overstated but I believe it plays a part.

However, all the above is subjective and arguable on both sides. I have my view and others have theirs. I am happy to agree to disagree.
That's all fine but we've reached this point as people have gone off on tangents from my original point.

---

The 0 in 6 is a useless stat.
Anyone discarding Rooney on the basis of that stat is making a mistake.
It is my belief that most people don't understand stats very well at all and Fantasy players, who really need to understand this stuff, are rarely any better.
With a backround in poker and sportbetting, I think I have a better handle on stats than most although I do not claim to be an expert.


You seem to suggest (due to you having read footballers autobiographies) that he will be aware of the stat and it will negatively affect his performance. ("which will have an effect on his psychological view....")
This is highly questionable.
Firstly neither of us know whether he is aware of it or not.

Secondly, what is the point here?
He has 0 in 6 as he dislikes playing specifically at Villa Park? Even though he quite like playing Villa overall with 9 in 13?
Which is more reasonable? That it's a small statistical anomoly or that Villa Park itself is a problem for him?

Or because he now has 0 in 6 at Villa Park, he is in danger of this becoming a self fulfilling prophesy, as he will be tense? Or?

And even if we accept that Rooney both knows the stat and that the knowing of the stat will affect his game in some way, why would it lessen his game?
Why wouldn't it motivate him to "put that right"?
Various matchups will affect players in different ways.
Keane raised his game versus Arsenal, Neville lost his edge versus Pool.
Why doesn't that stat makes it MORE likely Rooney will score than normal?

I have suggested a reasonable statistical expectation for Rooney in those 6 games would be 2 goals. So to have 0 is not such a big statistical anomoly.
And we can mostly discard the games at Villa Park played in 2007-12. How can games played 7 or 8 years ago have any bearing on a game that will be played on Friday?

Probably the only players in common between all those games will be Rooney and Agbonlahor.
The example from the 1880s was of course an extreme example but the point stands. The stats are out of date and therefore mostly useless.
If we move to a bigger statistical sample, we find he has 9 in 13.
So Rooney loves playing Villa!
And as someone has helpfully pointed out in another thread, of Rooneys last 121 goals, 68 have been at home and 53 away.
That actually indicates that he is probably scoring a slightly higher proportion of Uniteds away goals than Uniteds home goals.

---

Apologies to all those that find this discussion tedious.
If this forum doesn't have an appetite for this sort of discussion, I'm happy to leave it there.

Wow. Two Lemlins!!

iroced

FHFC wrote: »

Wow. Two Lemlins!!

Hum... Well... Not quite... Stats, betting, bookies, defending strongly his arguments-based opinions. Rory's back isn't it ?


---

More seriously. No offense intended at all TheDazzler and welcome to this addictive dementia :rolleyes: .

Like Necronomicon said, I pretty much enjoyed this debate. It may sound tedious to some but questioning your own belief is always a good thing, IMO anyway.

As for Rooney away to Villa, you provide many good and interesting points but personally if I combine the 0 goal in 6 games at Villa Park (despite acknowledging it is indeed a small sample of data) with Rooney only scoring once away last year I may well not captain him for this week. And if he got 9 in 7 at OT against Villa, well maybe Villa Park ground, its atsmosphere etc really does bother him indeed. Strikers generally know their stats quite well so I'd be surprised if Rooney doesn't know he's on a terrible run at Villa Park. And that may psychologically "block" him in some way now...

That said, what I'd love to know is in these 0 out of 6, how many assists? If it's 0 too then it's a definite no for me. But if he got more than a couple, then why not. After all, assists are only worth 1 point less than goals for forwards (though they're not weighted as much for bonus pts).

Scorpion Sting

iroced wrote: »

That said, what I'd love to know is in these 0 out of 6, how many assists? If it's 0 too then it's a definite no for me. But if he got more than a couple, then why not. After all, assists are only worth 1 point less than goals for forwards (though they're not weighted as much for bonus pts).

1 assist - for Tom Cleverley in the December 2013 game at Villa Park.