Acting the **** abroad

Very Bored

Very Bored wrote: »

As Rachel said on Friends "I don't think anyone is angry about the Louisiana Purchase anymore".

The things your cited are not the reason modern French people, and gross generalisation here I know, don't like the English. Its because of the behaviour, and here is another generalisation, of the English tourist abroad.

Nonsense.

The French English thing is as old as history. The English don't like the French, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with them spilling out onto the street from cafés, drinking Pernod. Similarly, I know French people who don't like the English and lived in areas where they'd have never ever seen an English lager lout. The antipathy between the two is not a reaction to the boozed up Brits thing of the last couple of decades.

Very Bored

Deleted User wrote: »

Nonsense.

The French English thing is as old as history. The English don't like the French, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with them spilling out onto the street from cafés, drinking Pernod. Similarly, I know French people who don't like the English and lived in areas where they'd have never ever seen an English lager lout. The antipathy between the two is not a reaction to the boozed up Brits thing of the last couple of decades.

Don't be silly. There is a historic antipathy but then so there is between the Irish - English, Welsh - English and Scottish - English. Now, I've heard that the English don't get on too well in Scotland, though personally I think that is an overinflated truth. But the vast majority of English who visit Ireland and Wales, or even live in them, generally get on fine. What I do know, at least in Wales though I'm not so sure in Ireland, is that things are more fraught in Welsh speaking areas. And its generally due to the English going there and acting like they're in England. The French experience is similar. Yes, there is antipathy but no more than in the other nations I mentioned. If you are seriously suggesting that people on either side of the English Channel dislike each other simply because their great-great-great-great-great grandfather was killed by the other person's uncle 63 times removed you need to have another think about the real possibility of that situation. The English don't like the French because, stereotypically, the French abroad behave like they're in France. The French don't like the English because, stereotypically, the English behave abroad behave like they're in England. Neither like the Germans for, stereotypically, exactly the same reason and the Germans don't like either again because of the same stereotypes. I will concede that they also don't like each other because they are the three kingpins in Europe, though the majority is down to behaviour.

Also, even if your mates have never met an Englishman or a Frenchman, doesn't mean they don't talk to other people they know who may have done. There are nationalities I typically don't like as a group, yet I have met no-one or very few from those countries, because I have built an impression from the media and from talking to people I know who have. What I do, fortunately, have is the ability to treat people on an individual basis regardless of their background and if I find the individual to be a decent person then I like them regardless of my own stereotypical prejudices. Which leads onto my next point. That the vast majority of people in this world put stereotypes onto others, but fortunately the vast majority are decent people who don't judge individuals on that basis. That is as true for the French, English, Irish, Canadians, Australians and so on as it is of anyone else. Because, at the end of the day, the majority are intelligent enough to realise that a stereotype is just that.

jackboy

If we want to sort out our reputation we should burn the passports of anyone who shows up to the airport in a county jersey. These are the worst of the worst.

Very Bored

jackboy wrote: »

If we want to sort out our reputation we should burn the passports of anyone who shows up to the airport in a county jersey. These are the worst of the worst.

I never understand that to be honest. Why is it that many Irish insist of wearing their county jersey to the airport? I'm sure the people of Prague, Milan, Barcelona and any other major European destination instantly recognise the colours .

Very Bored

Very Bored wrote: »

Don't be silly. There is a historic antipathy but then so there is between the Irish - English, Welsh - English and Scottish - English. Now, I've heard that the English don't get on too well in Scotland, though personally I think that is an overinflated truth. But the vast majority of English who visit Ireland and Wales, or even live in them, generally get on fine. What I do know, at least in Wales though I'm not so sure in Ireland, is that things are more fraught in Welsh speaking areas. And its generally due to the English going there and acting like they're in England. The French experience is similar. Yes, there is antipathy but no more than in the other nations I mentioned. If you are seriously suggesting that people on either side of the English Channel dislike each other simply because their great-great-great-great-great grandfather was killed by the other person's uncle 63 times removed you need to have another think about the real possibility of that situation. The English don't like the French because, stereotypically, the French abroad behave like they're in France. The French don't like the English because, stereotypically, the English behave abroad behave like they're in England. Neither like the Germans for, stereotypically, exactly the same reason and the Germans don't like either again because of the same stereotypes. I will concede that they also don't like each other because they are the three kingpins in Europe, though the majority is down to behaviour.

Still though, it is nonsense. Not sure why you drag the Scottish and Irish into it, antipathy may exist between people for different reasons.

No matter how much digging you do, I'm afraid the English French antipathy existed for many decades and centuries before the Brits started heading abroad and getting drunk and rowdy in the 70s and 80s.

Or maybe to paraphrase your own line...

If you are seriously suggesting that people on either side of the English Channel dislike each other simply because English people in recent years have a reputation for drinking too much beer, you need to have another think about the real possibility of that situation.

looksee

dreamers75 wrote: »

Last 25 years or so I have the had privilge of going all over Europe with St Pats fans and we have had ****ing brilliant trips. A group of up to 200 people on the piss for 3 days and we have never had a single issue with anyone.


Can only assume emigration wnkers are just that wnkers.

I can imagine that 200 fellas on the piss for three days would not even notice any issues. I know if I had any issues I would not take them up with 200 drunks.

ihavenoname3

Deleted User wrote: »

That's only because they don't know how alike we are, or when they see a group of English speakers drinking, fighting, urinating on the street etc. assume they're English and don't know it's just as likely to be our lot.

bull$hit, the English abroad are obnoxious, loud arrogant morons, last time I was in spain, a group of English lads walked by singing a song about jimmy savile being a legend, this was in 2014, not a hope a crowd of Irish lads would do that.

The_Valeyard

Yeah, but still better than those free loading Canadians!!


Canada sucks.


Wait, what are we talking about again???

suicide_circus

Lets be honest, the irish causing this hassle are 18-25 year old celtic tirger pups

Fukuyama

Obviously not going to go into specifics here but until recently I worked in a job related to working visas. Had a kind of front row seat to this phenomenon - police reports and all.

90% of people who go abroad are fine. They do their research. They listen to the advice and guidance. They realise that they're abroad in a foreign country where they have few support systems if things go wrong. They're careful and make efforts to integrate. They might have a bit of a party and drink more than usual but they have heads on their shoulders, confine their activities to areas where it's allowed (pubs, nightclubs etc...) and generally have no issues at all.

Then we have the other type who, in my experience, it's their parents who organize most of their visa for them. They've moddy-coddled their kids and by the time they're 22 and are finally let off the leash they run amok.

Of course when it all blows up in the kids face and they face repercussions with police, courts, landlords, evictions, hospitals etc.. they put their tail between their legs and play the helpless, likable Irish puppy dog.

There are 18 year olds who can go to America for the summer, get a job, have fun, make American friends and generally behave like a mature adult.

And there are 27 year olds who will go abroad, get plastered, get peppersprayed and arrested, get evicted and get their visa revoked all in the name of "having the craic". They ruin the Irish reputation which until recently was very good abroad. And then they blame the host country, the police, the locals and their visa company instead of looking in the mirror.

The latter also wear country colours more often than not.

Wright

jackboy wrote: »

If we want to sort out our reputation we should burn the passports of anyone who shows up to the airport in a county jersey. These are the worst of the worst.

Correct.

Very Bored

Deleted User wrote: »

Still though, it is nonsense. Not sure why you drag the Scottish and Irish into it, antipathy may exist between people for different reasons.

No matter how much digging you do, I'm afraid the English French antipathy existed for many decades and centuries before the Brits started heading abroad and getting drunk and rowdy in the 70s and 80s.

Or maybe to paraphrase your own line...

If you are seriously suggesting that people on either side of the English Channel dislike each other simply because English people in recent years have a reputation for drinking too much beer, you need to have another think about the real possibility of that situation.

I'm afraid you're coming at this with your own blinkered prejudice. I'll give you a summation of one of the main reasons the English are unpopular abroad.

An Irish/Welsh/Scotsman walks into a bar in Paris and badly pronounces:
"Je veudrais un biere si vous plais".*

An Englishman walks into the same bar and says:
"I want a beer".
The barman doesn't understand so the Englishman roars it at him.

Stereotypical true, but all too often its what happens.

*If this isn't correct then you can still take the example, my second language is Italian, not French.

Fukuyama

suicide_circus wrote: »

Lets be honest, the irish causing this hassle are 18-25 year old celtic tirger pups

I honestly wish I could disagree (being part of that demographic) but you're 100% spot on.

The only thing I'd say is that it's a minority and there is a quiet frustration among the remainder watching your reputation being soiled. It makes it tougher to get accommodation, jobs etc..

In many cities around the world our welcome has been worn out thanks to a small minority. Very soon we'll have the same loutish reputation as the English which will mean any Irish bagpacker, J1er or Oz emigrant will face anti-Irish discrimination the minute they step off the plane.

99% of the problem relates to childish attitudes towards alcohol among a sub-set of our society. Lads and girloz thinking an Ibiza holdiay and be replicated in the US or Aus. :rolleyes:

ComfortKid

Lets be honest, anyone between 18-25 would have been 10-17 during the Tiger years.

suicide_circus

ComfortKid wrote: »

Lets be honest, anyone between 18-25 would have been 10-17 during the Tiger years.

Making them children of the celtic tiger aka celtic tiger pups....

ComfortKid

suicide_circus wrote:

Making them children of the celtic tiger aka celtic tiger pups....

I thought being conceived during the tiger years would make them Celtic Tiger pups. Sorry.

suicide_circus

ComfortKid wrote: »

I thought being conceived during the tiger years would make them Celtic Tiger pups. Sorry.

Dont worry I dont think the definition is set in stone, thats just my interpretation!

Wright

Very Bored wrote: »

An Irish/Welsh/Scotsman walks into a bar in Paris and badly pronounces:
"Je veudrais un biere si vous plais".*

An Englishman walks into the same bar and says:
"I want a beer".
The barman doesn't understand so the Englishman roars it at him.

*"that's my complete guess anyway"

I wonder how many French wouldn't know what you meant if you said 'beer please'. Probably not a whole lot lol.

The other poster is right, there is just a general distain stretching back a long time, and not for the reasons you suggest. But, ask yourself, is it even worth being right about this? The answer is probably not.

jca

buried wrote: »

The heavily State sponsored advertising for the Irish identity to be associated with booze. That's why they do it. That "identity" produces a twisted notion of "Irishness", I mean, how could it not? What other nation brings the "leader of the free world" AKA the president of the United States to publicly down a pint of Guinness in a dingy pub and this event is a "celebration" ? Nowhere except here.

Very good point. From the Dubliners touring in the 60's to the present day if we aren't being portrayed as gombeen leprechauns we're the drunken paddies.

JustTheOne

jca wrote: »

Very good point. From the Dubliners touring in the 60's to the present day if we aren't being portrayed as gombeen leprechauns we're the drunken paddies.

It's pretty true in fairness though.

Billy86

ihavenoname3 wrote: »

bull$hit, the English abroad are obnoxious, loud arrogant morons, last time I was in spain, a group of English lads walked by singing a song about jimmy savile being a legend, this was in 2014, not a hope a crowd of Irish lads would do that.

No, they would rather do what the eejits sitting in the same pub during the UFC McGregor card there a few weeks back were up to (in Toronto), chanting "F**k the queen, f**k the queen, f**k the queen" over... and over... and over... and over, between and during fights and interviews. Despite there barely even being any English fighters on the card.

Of course, they did stop to try and pick a few fights with the locals the table across from them after being politely asked to stop blocking all the TVs by standing up all the time (usually for a sing/clap-along of the always witty "f**k the queen", which was every 5-6 minutes without exaggeration). I'm still amazed the bouncer didn't kick them out, as they had to be told to stop acting like kids no less than 7 or 8 times through the night. And then one of them left a lovely present by p*ssing on the couch in their booth and ripping the upholstery beneath it, probably because they were jumping up and down on the thing all night long.

No doubt these are probably the same f***ers who go home complaining that the Canadians are "no craic", mean spirited, must have something against the Irish from their experience (because Canada is of course the home of racism! ), etc etc. I say that because the majority of people who complain about that stuff in Australia would be right there, in the blink of an eye, up on the couch chanting "F**k the queen, f**k the queen, f**k the queen" gleefully as a Canadian loses to an American in a really close, hard fought fight.

martingriff

lertsnim wrote: »

Absolutely. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Our great leader said it was not our fault so everyone is now taking it literally when he did not mean it and was only trying to win popularity

Jim79

yesto24 wrote: »

So I spend a lot of me free time in pubs.

thats time well spent! i think u shud take the CAGE questionnaire

LDN_Irish

ihavenoname3 wrote: »

bull$hit, the English abroad are obnoxious, loud arrogant morons, last time I was in spain, a group of English lads walked by singing a song about jimmy savile being a legend, this was in 2014, not a hope a crowd of Irish lads would do that.

Those who don't like paedophilia jokes, look away now.

I was playing xbox live one night with a crowd of dubs who abused anyone who came online without an Irish accent, particularly anyone English. Basically bullying them in to not talking which at the time was a part of the xbox live experience. They then started sharing jokes about paedophilia, the one that stuck in my kind was "what's the difference between Madeline McCann and a fridge? My fridge doesn't cry when I put my meat in it."

I very much doubt those lads would have qualms about cheering on Jimmy Saville when abroad.

yesto24

Jim79 wrote: »

thats time well spent! i think u shud take the CAGE questionnaire

Just did at your request. I got 1.

The reason I put that line in was to avoid to inevitable reply of "you don't know how to have the craic" of course this being after hours there was always the chance it would be used against me.
And it was. Before you. Must be quicker.

What do you think brings out the inner **** of some Irish people abroad.

heldel00

I might get shot for saying this but...
the only upside of the recession,in my end of the country, was that it drastically reduced the number of $hitheads we had.
Few of them got brave and packed up their bags, throngs of them followed. Peace and quiet at last to have a drink on a Saturday night or to even go in to collect a takeaway on a Sunday evening without the usual verbal barrage of dung from the "big men".
Unfortunately, they just became someone else's problem.

derfderf

The whole thing about the Irish wearing out their welcome in Oz is greatly exaggerated. We do have the drunken reputation, and Irish bars in Sydney are generally hell holes, but the Aussies can be as bad. Trust me on this, nobody hates the Irish over there as much as other Irish.

Jim79

OP,
most are young stupid full of alcohol or other drugs or both. maybe the bars u are in have no music on and you can hear these guys from a mile away.

they think they can hold their booze but really they cant. if they could they would conduct themselves the same way when they are sober.

when they are home they are the same way. i know because i have worked nights and dealt with many young fools full of drink and acting like morons( not everyone of course).

there is 1 thing i will add the generation of late teens ,early 20 somethings now are much more in your face. 1 example when i worked at night there were incidents when groups would congregate at a monument in the centre of town and start soccer style singing and chants.

ComfortKid

Jim79 wrote:

they think they can hold their booze but really they cant. if they could they would conduct themselves the same way when they are sober.

If you conduct yourself when you're full of booze the same as you would when sober then why drink at all? Isn't the whole point of drinking to get merry, socialize,sing a few songs and have a laugh in general?

You can get drunk without acting the bollocks.

When the Sun Hits

I think it's the drink. I have friends from the US and they've told me that we really have an extra gear or two when it comes to boozing.