Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

RightTurnClyde

Milked out wrote: »

Are many on here in derogation territory? In it here and Can't spread a bag of p here under nitrates so tightening up in this by putting all n allowance back to 170kg would knock me back anyway and I'd imagine many more.

In Derogation here aswell ( and in Reps till end of 2015.... Tis a great country). Removing derogation would be a major kick is the ass for me.
(Scratching head)

degetme

How quickly can one graze paddocks that got 40 units of pasture sward Thursday without harming the cows?

mahoney_j

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

In Derogation here aswell ( and in Reps till end of 2015.... Tis a great country). Removing derogation would be a major kick is the ass for me.
(Scratching head)

+1

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

There's a lot of negative media coming out of France and Germany about the extra production coming from IRL, DK, UK, BE and NL. Rumblings about enforcing nitrate regs on those countries...
There is a lot of talk also that the Irish Ag dept did not show up at a meeting about the scheme proposed by FR and DE.

The confidence of the French that their proposals will be considered comes from the fact that the Germans have rowed in behind them.



What happens to Belview if this becomes law? Irexit along with Brexit?
:)



Edit. "We will build a wall around Ireland, and the Irish will pay for it!"...

Any wonder why ICOS are the first out to knock it.
If it is 10c/litre and if it is voluntary, I think it will encourage a lot of farmers near retirement to pull the plug. Something like that would lift prices fast. But who pays the 10c. And it ups the game for Glanbia et al to improve their payments if they're competing with a 10c/litre "setaside"
I think it would be great, really throws the cat into the pigeons. Coops would really know what work is then, as thy try to hold suppliers and litres. It would be some stick to have to beat them with.
The derogation suggestion on the other hand....now that would be a balls. Shoves the problem back onto the farmer.

RightTurnClyde

jaymla627 wrote: »

The nitrates route is the best tool they have and it will cost them zilch, simply scrap derogation, strictly enforce 170kg/ha limit and prohibit the exportation of slurry/dung off farm and you'd go a he'll of away to stopping the likes of Ireland expanding its dairy herd
Go a step further and pay the drystock/beef lads a top-up in their bps if their nitrates are under 100kg/ha that was high enough to discourage them from renting ground to dairy farmers and you have the thing sewn-up

Shhhhhhhh, will ya
(Delete that feck1n post will ya)

jaymla627

Milked out wrote: »

Are many on here in derogation territory? In it here and Can't spread a bag of p here under nitrates so tightening up in this by putting all n allowance back to 170kg would knock me back anyway and I'd imagine many more.

I was at 411kg/ha for 2015 and have been plus 300kg for 2014/2014 haven't had so much as a inspection only correspondence is letters outlining cuts to my bps which I don't receive anyways as have no entitlements

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

I was thinking the opposite dawg. Certain individuals who Simon or any other minister for ag would always take a phonecall from are being inconvenienced to say the least by the stricter enforcement of the regs in this area. A place that would often see a million gals/day being moved on a day like today has slurry flowing out the gates and not a tanker in sight apart from a neighbour of mine who took a grand total of 9k gals from two of their units this week. No one has any spare capacity to import and there's no blind eye anymore.

Do you actually believe that Simon has any say in the actual decision making in Europe? Honestly?
Take Ireland's 'special' Corp tax exemption that was written into the Lisbon treaty...there is now the amusing situation where Apple could 'owe' the Irish revenue between 8 and 18 billion...and Ireland are saying "Jeez no Apple don't owe us a bob"!! Lol. You actually couldn't make it up...





My nitrate allowance is 74.8units/acre because some savant decides it is better for the environment or whatever...

NB. Every ton of nitrogen is coded and traceable here now. There are questions being asked why there are x amount of tons of N imported into Ireland and there are x-1000's tons used by farmers OR the farmers/merchants of Ireland carry a lot of stock for decoration...

Like I keep repeating...coming to a country near you, soon.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

What happens to Belview if this becomes law? Irexit along with Brexit?
:)


Edit. "We will build a wall around Ireland, and the Irish will pay for it!"...

The more I think about this, it would be a brilliant wake up call for the coops. Might give them a clue at what it's like to invest in a business and then have the jack boot shoved down on the neck. That 10c would mean that they'd have to get their suited asses off their leather chairs and go out and buy our milk and then find a decent market to sell it. Time for them to earn their crusts.

(All probably too good to be true and Brussels will bottle it and big Phil make the usual arse over elbow job of it and Simon will come back telling us how he saved the dairy industry in Ireland and the coops will cut another few cent off the litre of milk and I'll have to turn off my phone for another 6 months.... Oh well)

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Any wonder why ICOS are the first out to knock it.
If it is 10c/litre and if it is voluntary, I think it will encourage a lot of farmers near retirement to pull the plug. Something like that would lift prices fast. But who pays the 10c. And it ups the game for Glanbia et al to improve their payments if they're competing with a 10c/litre "setaside"
I think it would be great, really throws the cat into the pigeons. Coops would really know what work is then, as thy try to hold suppliers and litres. It would be some stick to have to beat them with.
The derogation suggestion on the other hand....now that would be a balls. Shoves the problem back onto the farmer.

+1. Excellent post.

Europe is not NZ, and never will be...

My N allowance is 74.8units/ha and there is absolutely no way around it. Coming to a country near you, soon.

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Any wonder why ICOS are the first out to knock it.
If it is 10c/litre and if it is voluntary, I think it will encourage a lot of farmers near retirement to pull the plug. Something like that would lift prices fast. But who pays the 10c. And it ups the game for Glanbia et al to improve their payments if they're competing with a 10c/litre "setaside"
I think it would be great, really throws the cat into the pigeons. Coops would really know what work is then, as thy try to hold suppliers and litres. It would be some stick to have to beat them with.
The derogation suggestion on the other hand....now that would be a balls. Shoves the problem back onto the farmer.

That's the French/German proposal, setaside. Setaside actually (in a European way) worked...

visatorro

degetme wrote: »

How quickly can one graze paddocks that got 40 units of pasture sward Thursday without harming the cows?

fairly sure fraz used to spread between milkings and return cows to paddock no problem.

mahoney_j

jaymla627 wrote: »

I was at 411kg/ha for 2015 and have been plus 300kg for 2014/2014 haven't had so much as a inspection only correspondence is letters outlining cuts to my bps which I don't receive anyways as have no entitlements

So basically if dero limits are dropped as u suggested earlier u be seriously fooked at that high an n kg/he

Timmaay

visatorro wrote: »

fairly sure fraz used to spread between milkings and return cows to paddock no problem.

Turfed afew cows out to a Paddock one evening afew week back that my dad had only spread a bag that day, got a fair bollocking from him over it ha, didn't do the cows any harm.

Timmaay

I thought 250kg/ha was the limit when in derogation?? Jay what sort of SR you running??? Over the 200 here, would be a right kick to have to drop back, in fairness though if you count up the ground used for bought in silage/maize it would drop me back under 170 defo.

yosemitesam1

Dawggone wrote: »

+1. Excellent post.

Europe is not NZ, and never will be...

My N allowance is 74.8units/ha and there is absolutely no way around it. Coming to a country near you, soon.

I'd say it'll be here sooner than many would think teagasc included, but there is still huge untapped potential to reduce inputs while maintaining good output

pedigree 6

Timmaay wrote: »

Turfed afew cows out to a Paddock one evening afew week back that my dad had only spread a bag that day, got a fair bollocking from him over it ha, didn't do the cows any harm.

I often graze cows on ground that's just been spread.
The fastest fertilisers will take 2 days to get into the plant in optimal conditions in the summer. Will take longer this time of year.
Afaik in NZ they often spread fert 1-2 days ahead of grazing to waste no time for fert to work.

Dgetme spread Thursday i'd say graze away now.

Dawggone

jaymla627 wrote: »

The nitrates route is the best tool they have and it will cost them zilch, simply scrap derogation, strictly enforce 170kg/ha limit and prohibit the exportation of slurry/dung off farm and you'd go a he'll of away to stopping the likes of Ireland expanding its dairy herd
Go a step further and pay the drystock/beef lads a top-up in their bps if their nitrates are under 100kg/ha that was high enough to discourage them from renting ground to dairy farmers and you have the thing sewn-up

+1.

You've a good understanding of the 'tools' available to Brussels. They will use them in periods of crisis however we are a long way from crisis now...

I wouldn't bank on the fact that you're immune to what's coming down the tracks because you don't get any sfp though.

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

So basically if dero limits are dropped as u suggested earlier u be seriously fooked at that high an n kg/he

Current set-up was due to new entrant quota system when I got into milk in 2013 which ment had to have a 3 year lease on ground in my own name so my da just rented us 40 acres off a 150 acre block to get around this....
Lease is up now so will consolidate the whole lot this year, just looking into the best way to go about it....
Never applied for dero/filled in any paperwork/exported slurry, was quiet surprised I haven't had a inspection to date but having racked a a teagasc advisors brain on the subject in my situation where I hadn't a bps for them penelise me on the only way I could off got myself into trouble was if I was found to off caused pollution by the local county council as I have adequate slurry storage/housing for a 16 week closed period

Dawggone

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I'd say it'll be here sooner than many would think teagasc included, but there is still huge untapped potential to reduce inputs while maintaining good output

It will need a major reverse of policy from the Ag establishment, but you're correct, there are major savings to be made by embracing the use of old time farming methods coupled with modern research.


Dare I say the cussword...clover?

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

It will need a major reverse of policy from the Ag establishment, but you're correct, there are major savings to be made by embracing the use of old time farming methods coupled with modern research.


Dare I say the cussword...clover?

Clover that Fookin weed!!!!,we don't have the climate here for it bar maby a few weeks in the year .anywhere with heavy clover awards will have virtually no grass all spring and open weed filled swards

jaymla627

Dawggone wrote: »

It will need a major reverse of policy from the Ag establishment, but you're correct, there are major savings to be made by embracing the use of old time farming methods coupled with modern research.


Dare I say the cussword...clover?

The funniest thing would be teagasc having to do a 360 and actually having to research/promote higher yielding cow systems cause I can't see their been one limit for your 450 kg grasshopper and another for your 700kg plus leggy lady

Dawggone

mahoney_j wrote: »

Clover that Fookin weed!!!!,we don't have the climate here for it bar maby a few weeks in the year .anywhere with heavy clover awards will have virtually no grass all spring and open weed filled swards

The problem with mainstream clover varieties is that they are produced and bred on mainland Europe.
More input/research is needed for Northern Europe to develop cool climate clovers. But then who would gain from that in Ag...farmers? No money there.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

It will need a major reverse of policy from the Ag establishment, but you're correct, there are major savings to be made by embracing the use of old time farming methods coupled with modern research.


Dare I say the cussword...clover?

As much as Ireland isn't NZ, it isn't France either.

yosemitesam1

Dawggone wrote: »

It will need a major reverse of policy from the Ag establishment, but you're correct, there are major savings to be made by embracing the use of old time farming methods coupled with modern research.


Dare I say the cussword...clover?

It would be interesting to see the difference in costs versus production from the current system of horsing out the nitrogen and developing a really biologically active soil that really seems alive when you stick a spade in it, plant diversity is underrated imo

Milked out

mahoney_j wrote: »

Clover that Fookin weed!!!!,we don't have the climate here for it bar maby a few weeks in the year .anywhere with heavy clover awards will have virtually no grass all spring and open weed filled swards

+1 even worse in high rainfall areas or heavy ground.

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

As much as Ireland isn't NZ, it isn't France either.

But as the Sheriff said it is a satrap of Europe...


The Irish are well versed in "Thy will be done", especially German will.

yosemitesam1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Clover that Fookin weed!!!!,we don't have the climate here for it bar maby a few weeks in the year .anywhere with heavy clover awards will have virtually no grass all spring and open weed filled swards

Simple grass and clover might not be enough, sticking in chicory, plantain and earlier growing grass will increase production at the shoulders of the year

Buford T. Justice XIX

Milked out wrote: »

Are many on here in derogation territory? In it here and Can't spread a bag of p here under nitrates so tightening up in this by putting all n allowance back to 170kg would knock me back anyway and I'd imagine many more.

Dawggone wrote: »

It will need a major reverse of policy from the Ag establishment, but you're correct, there are major savings to be made by embracing the use of old time farming methods coupled with modern research.


Dare I say the cussword...clover?

That thar be fightin' talk:D

There is still huge potential for improvements in grassland growth rates. Over half of Irish grassland is low in pH and consists of old swards and also index 1 and 2 soils in P and K. With a lower nitrates, there will be more emphasis in improving those 'simple' constraints which will take up a lot of the slack of lower N limits.

Lime, clover, reseeding, improving fertility will be a huge factor in maintaining grass growth rates.

I remember when the regulations came in, a lot of model farmers were saying they would go out of business without putting out 10 bags of can/acre.

They didn't, they adapted and improved.

Life will go on pretty much the same as before with a few changes to management.

keep going

jaymla627 wrote: »

Current set-up was due to new entrant quota system when I got into milk in 2013 which ment had to have a 3 year lease on ground in my own name so my da just rented us 40 acres off a 150 acre block to get around this....
Lease is up now so will consolidate the whole lot this year, just looking into the best way to go about it....
Never applied for dero/filled in any paperwork/exported slurry, was quiet surprised I haven't had a inspection to date but having racked a a teagasc advisors brain on the subject in my situation where I hadn't a bps for them penelise me on the only way I could off got myself into trouble was if I was found to off caused pollution by the local county council as I have adequate slurry storage/housing for a 16 week closed period

My admiration grows

keep going

Milked out wrote: »

8 cows bulling + rain = 3 acres in pure ****

Is it my imagination or arecows bulling mad