Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

keep going

are you a good enough farmer dawg?.if you think conventional farming separates the men from the boys,organic takes it to a whole new level.you have to be a superb stratigist because theres no quick fix to dealing with problems

whelan2

waiting on vet as cow is alot worse I would say she would have been dead this morning if vet hadnt treated her last night

Dawggone

Markcheese wrote: »

If the animal is ill - you treat - gets expensive though cos 2 or ,3 courses and the animal is no longer organic...

Spoke to the vet this morning and he said there is no issues with antibiotics/vaccines/worming and fluke etc.



Makes a bit of a joke of organic food, doesn't it?

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

Spoke to the vet this morning and he said there is no issues with antibiotics/vaccines/worming and fluke etc.



Makes a bit of a joke of organic food, doesn't it?

A neighbour has just gone organic suckler farming near me. He said it only needs to be organic on paper.... he has a point

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

What's the demand profile for organics in mainland Europe? Growing as liquid, as cheese?

I honestly have no idea of the growth profile of organics europeanwide, but the Coop reckons that its demand for organics has grown by 8% YoY for the last 10 years...

It's for their cheese, yoghurt and icecream.


As far as I can see there is no downside at the actual dairy side of things. Just carryon as is.
On speaking to the Dept. earlier, it's the forage/land side of things that it gets messy. Looks like I might have to commit to having the land organic for 15yrs...

Dawggone

darragh_haven wrote: »

A neighbour has just gone organic suckler farming near me. He said it only needs to be organic on paper.... he has a point

Honestly Darragh I think that it's a joke!


The only organic that I buy (or believe!) is what we get from the locals at the saturday market.

Dawggone

keep going wrote: »

are you a good enough farmer dawg?.if you think conventional farming separates the men from the boys,organic takes it to a whole new level.you have to be a superb stratigist because theres no quick fix to dealing with problems

Could you elaborate a little on that Kg?
What problems are you thinking on?

yosemitesam1

There's a good bit of info on sare.org, don't know enough about organics to comment

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Makes a bit of a joke of organic food, doesn't it?

The problem with organic farming as commonly understood is that the definitions are arbitrary and vary from country to country. As a result it becomes a matter of meeting labelling requirements in the cheapest way rather than a true farming approach.

What we used to refer to as regulatory arbitrage.

For example I could find no reasonable explanation (other than a typing error) for the Irish regulation which prohibits the export of organic manure to conventional farms.

keep going

Dawggone wrote: »

Could you elaborate a little on that Kg?
What problems are you thinking on?

no more wheeling out the sprayer to solve problems when they occur and alot of planning must go into rotation crops rather than boosting fertility with bag fert when you need it.i have to admit im acomplete non beliver in organics but that is not to say there is good basis in some of the stuff especially with soils.id suggest to go fully organic you should do away with diesel in the system as well.

Deepsouthwest

keep going wrote: »

no more wheeling out the sprayer to solve problems when they occur and alot of planning must go into rotation crops rather than boosting fertility with bag fert when you need it.i have to admit im acomplete non beliver in organics but that is not to say there is good basis in some of the stuff especially with soils.id suggest to go fully organic you should do away with diesel in the system as well.

Lol, classic!

Dawggone

keep going wrote: »

id suggest to go fully organic you should do away with diesel in the system as well.

Lol. Extremist!


With maize and lucerne as a rotation there are no weed/fungi/insect that would cause any concern, for now.

kowtow

I think the techniques of hard core organics are fascinating. .. laying hens cleaning pasture behind cows, pigs composting the straw pack in search of fermented kernels put there through the winter... absolute magic and I hope I live long enough to learn to make a few of them work.

But I wouldn't do it for the organic label.

Edit: and I think I might wait for a robotic flamethrower to become widely available before throwing away the sprayer. Any fool can be uncomfortable.

Panch18

kowtow wrote: »

For example I could find no reasonable explanation (other than a typing error) for the Irish regulation which prohibits the export of organic manure to conventional farms.

Isn't the reason for this that you are exporting out nutrients (lets call it good stuff) out of your organic farm and you can't bring it back again. so instead of having an onfarm cycle you break the cycle and the good stuff leaves but you keep draining.

What you take from the land you should give back to the land type scenario

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

waiting on vet as cow is alot worse I would say she would have been dead this morning if vet hadnt treated her last night

How is she now?

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

How is she now?

She's fairly wobbly, she ate a small bit of calf crunch this evening, strigging her out as often as I can and theres always a good bit of stuff there. Left her too long last night with out strigging her- from 11 until 6- wont leave it as long tonight. Vet gave her stuff with aggers pump and gave her finadyne and shes on marbocyl as well now as the noroclav. Thanks for asking

kowtow

Panch18 wrote:

Isn't the reason for this that you are exporting out nutrients (lets call it good stuff) out of your organic farm and you can't bring it back again. so instead of having an onfarm cycle you break the cycle and the good stuff leaves but you keep draining.

Could be I suppose. .. I think you are allowed to export to an organic producer.

Might also be to discourage high stocking rates but still seems a bit odd to prohibit.

Importing non organic manure I can understand.

Dawggone

Is Ruby Wax into dairying....?

stretch film

Time for some musical chairs in anticipation of the first calvings.
Whats the best stocking rate for keeping dry cows on slats(rubber matted) to minimise dirt . I can tighten up the maidens and culls and free up a couple of 15x12 ft pens

tanko

A neighbour of mine has a herd of 100% Holstein cows and uses a Limousin bull on them. The bull only has 2 stars on the maternal index but 23 month old heifers off this cross only have two stars for maternal also.
I would have assumed that the Holstein cows would be rated as 5 star for maternal meaning the heifers would have at least 3 or maybe 4 stars.
Do dairy farmers have much interest in how many stars beef cross heifers which they sell have given that they would be in demand for the beef genomics scheme?

mahoney_j

tanko wrote: »

A neighbour of mine has a herd of 100% Holstein cows and uses a Limousin bull on them. The bull only has 2 stars on the maternal index but 23 month old heifers off this cross only have two stars for maternal also.
I would have assumed that the Holstein cows would be rated as 5 star for maternal meaning the heifers would have at least 3 or maybe 4 stars.
Do dairy farmers have much interest in how many stars beef cross heifers which they sell have given that they would be in demand for the beef genomics scheme?

Bought a he bull 2 years ago to mop up cows and heifers.all I was interested in was calving ease and short gestation .he also had to have good feet .stars didn't interest me as I'm a dairy farmer .in fairness to bull he is bringing smashing calves that calve easy and calve more or less at or before time

atlantic mist

never looked at beef stars when putting beef on dairy cows
be looking for the easiest calving bull for cow as she is priority
id say they are monsters those 5 star beef calves

tanko

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bought a he bull 2 years ago to mop up cows and heifers.all I was interested in was calving ease and short gestation .he also had to have good feet .stars didn't interest me as I'm a dairy farmer .in fairness to bull he is bringing smashing calves that calve easy and calve more or less at or before time

That's fair enough but the stars might be of interest to the farmer who buys the heifer calves. They can make nice suckler cows.

tanko

atlantic mist wrote: »

never looked at beef stars when putting beef on dairy cows
be looking for the easiest calving bull for cow as she is priority
id say they are monsters those 5 star beef calves

I'm talking about maternal stars of the heifer calves not the terminal stars off the bull used on the cows.

frazzledhome

tanko wrote: »

A neighbour of mine has a herd of 100% Holstein cows and uses a Limousin bull on them. The bull only has 2 stars on the maternal index but 23 month old heifers off this cross only have two stars for maternal also.
I would have assumed that the Holstein cows would be rated as 5 star for maternal meaning the heifers would have at least 3 or maybe 4 stars.
Do dairy farmers have much interest in how many stars beef cross heifers which they sell have given that they would be in demand for the beef genomics scheme?

4 legs, 2 nuts an engine with ease of calving. That's all I require from our He Bulls

frazzledhome

Anyone going to IGA conference Thurs in Limerick

Markcheese

Dont know about france but here some products you can use - some you cant - (vaccines no prob ) - but not routinely- so a oneoff pneumonia problem in calves - treat them quick. An annual problem and the organic body'll want to know why - and what youre changing...
Two biggest problems for most irish dairy farmers are housing and early spring grass growth ...

kowtow

Markcheese wrote:

Dont know about france but here some products you can use - some you cant - (vaccines no prob ) - but not routinely- so a oneoff pneumonia problem in calves - treat them quick. An annual problem and the organic body'll want to know why - and what youre changing... Two biggest problems for most irish dairy farmers are housing and early spring grass growth ...

How does the housing issue work for organic dairy?

Iirc cubicles were possible though straw preferred? And presumably organic straw...

Was there a maximum housing time and/or max stocking rate?

Markcheese

Dawggone wrote:

Lol. Extremist!

In the church of greenies - that'd be a fundamentalist- expect geurilla gardening and a split soon

Deepsouthwest

frazzledhome wrote: »

Anyone going to IGA conference Thurs in Limerick

Don't think I'll make the trek from here to limerick for it, although I have no excuse not too with cows dry at the moment. There are a few speakers I wouldn't mind hearing there. Too me it's a bit low key this yr, haven't heard much about it, but maybe it's me who's been switched off