Guinness Pro12 2015/2016 Season thread

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Connacht can and should win their remaining 3 games. Munster at home would be the toughest but I think Connacht should be aiming to take 4 points from that game. If they follow that up with wins over Treviso and Glasgow they'll finish top of the league. I think it's more likely than Leinster beating Ulster.

When I checked, admittedly it was before the Ulster match, Connacht were favourites in the bookies to win the regular season.

connachta

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Connacht can and should win their remaining 3 games. Munster at home would be the toughest but I think Connacht should be aiming to take 4 points from that game. If they follow that up with wins over Treviso and Glasgow they'll finish top of the league. I think it's more likely than Leinster beating Ulster.

Glasgow may be tougher than Munster. Tight call
And be very careful about Treviso, lots of BP this season, leading Glasgow at HT, and playing their Champions Cup spot against us. We are targeted, they're aware they would top Zebre only if they win this last home game.

icdg

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-improving-pro12-product-a-matter-of-urgency-1.2598028

Interesting article by Gerry Thornley in which he mentions a suggestion that the Pro 12 be carved up into two conferences to reduce the number of games, so that internationals would play more Pro 12 games. The two conferences of six would play what Gerry says is 19 game programme, though I can only make it add up to 17:

Every team in their conference twice (10)

Every team in the other conference once (5)

Every team in their home country in the other conference again (1 or 2 - not sure how that is supposed to work for the Scots and Italians)

Whatever about the maths, ultimately I don't think it's a runner at present, between the TV companies expecting a certain number of fixtures and a number of sides having leases on grounds that stipulate a number of fixtures.

Podge_irl

icdg wrote: »

Every team in the other conference once (5)

Every team in their home country in the other conference again (1 or 2 - not sure how that is supposed to work for the Scots and Italians)

You're not in the other conference so you play all 6.

Presumably the Italians and Scots would be bundled together for no particular logical reason.

CatFromHue

Yeah I'm not sure where all the games are coming from there either. I get to 16 then not sure what he means by

Rather than continue with a 22-game, home-and-away format, he is proposing dividing the 12 teams into two conferences of six, comprising of two Irish, two Welsh, one Scottish and one Italian team each. They would play each other home and away, as well as meeting the six teams in the other conference at least once each, while also maintaining home and away derbies. This would in turn create room for an additional round of playoff matches encompassing more derbies; meaning 19 matches rather than 22 in total.

I also think

In any event, although some of the Pro12 at least reaches a terrestrial audience, it simply doesn’t look or play out as entertainingly. Scattered television coverage as well as scattered kick-offs don’t help; nor does the lack of a highlights package across all the weekend’s half-dozen games.

is a big big problem too.

thomond2006

I assume the extra playoff round means:

- Conference leaders qualify for the semi-finals
- Second and third placed teams playoff for the other semi-final spots

OR

- Conference leaders qualify for the semi-finals
- Second placed teams qualify for a playoff with home advantage
- The next two teams with the highest points in either conference qualify for the playoff as the away team

To organise the conferences I imagine you would allocate teams based on current league standing, starting with the highest placed sides by country and working down, so something like:

Conference 1: Ireland 1, Wales 2, Ireland 3, Wales 4, Scotland 1, Italy 2
Conference 2: Ireland 2, Wales 1, Ireland 4, Wales 3, Scotland 2, Italy 1

Which as it stands would be:

Conference 1: Leinster, Cardiff Blues, Ulster, Dragons, Glasgow, Treviso
Conference 2: Connacht, Scarlets, Munster, Ospreys, Edinburgh, Zebre

I'm all for reducing the number of fixtures. A 16 game regular season would be a good place to start, the less shadow boxing there is between second string teams the better.

connachta

French top 14 is doing ok, and we want to split 12 teams?
The only good point is to face another province a bit more

CatFromHue

Another option would be

Conference 1: Lein, Uls, Mun, Conn, Scottish 1, Italian 1
Conference 2: Osp, Lla, Dragons, Cardiff, Scottish 2, Italian 2

Conference 1 would be a tougher conference but both conferences would be much more appetising for the Irish and Welsh fans. Probably all fans tbh.

thomond2006

connachta wrote: »

French top 14 is doing ok, and we want to split 12 teams?
The only good point is to face another province a bit more

The French internationals are spread out across the 14 clubs. The Pro12 has 4 international squads spread across 12 teams, it's a completely different situation to the Top14. The Pro12 has far too many games where internationals don't feature, it's a killer to the league's reputation. It's viewed as a second string league for the most part and it drives potential fans away.

Podge_irl

connachta wrote: »

The only good point is to face another province a bit more

We face each other enough.

connachta

Podge_irl wrote: »

We face each other enough.

No, interpros are the only real attractive games..

Podge_irl

connachta wrote: »

No, interpros are the only real attractive games..

I find plenty of other games (Ospreys, Glasgow for example) attractive. Besides that, games only remain interesting when they are sufficiently rare or they lose all meaning. I have no interest playing Munster 3 or 4 times a year.

connachta

CatFromHue wrote: »

Another option would be

Conference 1: Lein, Uls, Mun, Conn, Scottish 1, Italian 1
Conference 2: Osp, Lla, Dragons, Cardiff, Scottish 2, Italian 2

Conference 1 would be a tougher conference but both conferences would be much more appetising for the Irish and Welsh fans. Probably all fans tbh.

Not necessarily, it depends on the Scottish and Italian team, And Welsh teams are a bit weak this year, not any year

Conference 1: Lein, Uls, Mun, Conn, Edinburgh, Zebre
Conference 2: Osp, Lla, Dragons, Cardiff, Glasgow, Treviso

best balanced solution IMO

former total

Fans thinking that the interpros are the only attractive games is one of the biggest problems facing both the Irish teams and the league.

thomond2006

connachta wrote: »

Not necessarily, it depends on the Scottish and Italian team, And Welsh teams are a bit weak this year, not any year

Conference 1: Lein, Uls, Mun, Conn, Edinburgh, Zebre
Conference 2: Osp, Lla, Dragons, Cardiff, Glasgow, Treviso

best balanced solution IMO

I couldn't see the Italians and Scottish agreeing to scrap one of their derbies while the Welsh and Irish don't. Either it's an equal split by country into conferences or it's not fair.

connachta

Podge_irl wrote: »

I find plenty of other games (Ospreys, Glasgow for example) attractive. Besides that, games only remain interesting when they are sufficiently rare or they lose all meaning. I have no interest playing Munster 3 or 4 times a year.

attractive for global attendance and TV I meant. I can bet with you that the Sportsground Thomond or the RDS would be more filled and TV audience higher for a 3rd similar interpro game than for Ospreys or Glasgow

Podge_irl

Why does a global TV audience care that it's a local derby?

And I still disagree. Play Munster 3 times a season and each game becomes less important. I'd much rather see us play Glasgow twice - with full strength teams mind you.

CatFromHue

former total wrote: »

Fans thinking that the interpros are the only attractive games is one of the biggest problems facing both the Irish teams and the league.

They aren't the only attractive games but they are usually some of the most attractive games.

You have the top 4 clashes and then the next attractive games are the interpros.

connachta

CatFromHue wrote: »

They aren't the only attractive games but they are usually some of the most attractive games.

You have the top 4 clashes and then the next attractive games are the interpros.

which was the same few weeks ago, as top 4 was pretty much the 4 Irish provinces

awec

former total wrote: »

Fans thinking that the interpros are the only attractive games is one of the biggest problems facing both the Irish teams and the league.

Whose fault is that?

MarinersBlues

Pos Team Current R20 R21 R22 R12 Total
Scarlets (a) Zebre (h) Connacht (a) Zebre(a)
1 Glasgow 56 4 5 4 5 74
Edin (h) Ulster (a) Treviso (h)
2 Leinster 63 4 1 5 73
Munster (h) Treviso (a) Glasgow (h)
3 Connacht 63 4 5 1 73
Zebre (a) Leinster (h) Ospreys (a)
4 Ulster 55 5 4 1 65
Glasgow (h) Dragons (a) Munster (a)
5 Scarlets 58 1 4 1 64
Connacht (a) Edin (h) Scarlets (h)
6 Munster 53 1 4 4 62
Leinster (a) Munster (a) Blues (h)
7 Edinburgh 52 0 1 4 57
Treviso (h) Blues (a) Ulster (h)
8 Ospreys 44 5 4 4 57
Dragons(h) Ospreys(h) Edinbrugh (a)
9 Blues 48 4 1 1 54




Leinster - steady as she goes for top 2
Munster - Edinbrugh seems to be the big one, if they lose that they HAVE to take care of Scarlets
Ulster - steady as she foes for top 4
Connacht - It really is all down to the Glasgow game for top two. I'm not sure the Munster game is as important as people think.

Every point is crucial!
Everyone keep the head for four provinces in Europe! :cool:

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

Whose fault is that?

Nobodies, derbies exist in every sport. I don't really get the point. It's true that Global TV audiences don't care, but we haven't yet even got a proper domestic TV audience, so for the team being we need the derbies.

irishbucsfan

LEAVE THE PRO 12 ALONE!

ClanofLams

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Connacht - It really is all down to the Glasgow game for top two. I'm not sure the Munster game is as important as people think.

It is if Scarlets beat Glasgow, which even with Glasgow coming into serious form and Llanelli slipping up against Cardiff last weekend wouldn't be a major surprise considering how strong a record Llanelli have at home. If Glasgow lose that, even with lbp, & Connacht get 9 points from Munster and Treviso games, Glasgow won't be able to catch Connacht on last day.

MarinersBlues

ClanofLams wrote: »

It is if Scarlets beat Glasgow, which even with Glasgow coming into serious form and Llanelli slipping up against Cardiff last weekend wouldn't be a major surprise considering how strong a record Llanelli have at home. If Glasgow lose that, even with lbp, & Connacht get 9 points from Munster and Treviso games, Glasgow won't be able to catch Connacht on last day.

Yep, but beat Glasgow instead of Munster and it doesn't matter what happens anywhere else. We are top two.

Best thing is to win the whole lot of them.

With bonus points.

and amazeballs off-loading all over the shop.

That way we are sure.

former total

awec wrote: »

Whose fault is that?

It's not really anyone's fault, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Rigor Mortis

If Cardiff beat Dragons, very likely and Ospreys, increasingly possible, that is going to make things very interesting for the last place in the Champions Cup. Because if Munster have beaten Edinburgh, they will be out of contention playing Cardiff who wont necessarily be.

errlloyd

I'm struggling to get my head around this season so much.

Not that long ago it looked like Glasgow were dead in the water, Cardiff were brutal, and Ospreys and Edinburgh would be pushing for Euro places.

After Cardiff managed to beat Ulster (and having really pushed Leinster) I joked they might make it. To think they're coming into contention now is pretty crazy. Worrying times at the Ospreys if they're dropping to third team in Wales.

thomond2006

Cardiff lost both away matches in Italy, only 1 LBP to show from both matches. Had they won those they would be in playoff contention and Munster would be in big trouble!

jacothelad

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm struggling to get my head around this season so much.

Not that long ago it looked like Glasgow were dead in the water, Cardiff were brutal, and Ospreys and Edinburgh would be pushing for Euro places.

After Cardiff managed to beat Ulster (and having really pushed Leinster) I joked they might make it. To think they're coming into contention now is pretty crazy. Worrying times at the Ospreys if they're dropping to third team in Wales.

Yes. In the Ulster game, Ulster were comfortable and cruising even though they didn't have a big lead. Then they decided that tackling was optional letting in 2 ridiculous tries to lose the game and since then have been shyte. In fact all season they have been pretty grim. It's hard to watch when you see what they can do and then have to watch them not doing it.

Cardiff have improved steadily since then and have scored 54 tries while conceding a massive 43. Warburton has even played for them so things must have been looking up for him to bother putting his boots on.

The only vague consolation I have about Ulster so far is the facts that while playing absolute brain dead and naive rugby all season they have scored a lot of tries - 45 and conceded relatively few - 23 and some of those were just due to shocking defending. They are doing some things right, just not often enough.

I think this season will see the top 4 teams finishing with the lowest ever points totals. Is it more competitive or are the top teams having a season ruined by the RWC? Maybe a little of one and a lot of the other.