TUF 22 - Europe vs USA (McGregor & Faber coaching)**Contains Spoilers**

MrStuffins

John_D80 wrote: »

IMO McGregor was well within his rights to feel annoyed at the way the fight was going and at the way his fighter was throwing away what should have been a comfortable win in 2 rounds. People might be critical of him as a coach and the amount of time he spends with fighters but at the end of the day he is giving up his personal time to do this show. I'd be pissed off as well.

He called the guy a few names in the heat of the moment. Big deal. He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.

Did you not see Mcgregor speaking plainly (albeit brutally honestly) and very calmly after the fight in the dressing room? If he was animated and a bit OTT during the fight it was because he wanted to give the lad a bit of kick in the arse as he was throwing the fight away.

It's not a matter of "He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it." IMO. You could say that about anything.

"Oh, he hit him after the bell? Well he's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.".

it's about being professional and being appropriate. He was neither at cageside.

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's not a matter of "He's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it." IMO. You could say that about anything.

"Oh, he hit him after the bell? Well he's a grown man and a professional fighter, Im sure he can handle it.".

it's about being professional and being appropriate. He was neither at cageside.

According to your standards maybe but you dont speak for everyone in fairness.

He was tasked with taking control of the team and overseeing the running of same as best he could according to his own standards.

Seriously, we're getting our knickers in a twist here over a little name-calling in the heat of a highly charged moment? FFS. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

MrStuffins

John_D80 wrote: »

According to your standards maybe but you dont speak for everyone in fairness.

I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. Read my posts and find that I have put "IMO" in each one.

He was tasked with taking control of the team and overseeing the running of same as best he could according to his own standards.

Seriously, we're getting our knickers in a twist here over a little name-calling in the heat of a highly charged moment? FFS. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How many seasons of TUF have their been? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single coach who has sat at cage side and, while his fighter was still in the fight (he was losing the round but had won the first) thought it appropriate to call him a p*ssy and a b*tch.

In fact, in all of the fights i've watched and attended i've never heard it. Maybe it happens, but i've never heard it (off the top of my head).

He acted inappropriately IMO

CatFromHue

He'll have lost some respect from the fighters after it and I doubt himself and Sascha will be too pally after it either.

It's a strange environment though as it doesn't matter, they're not there for him.

In any other team environment it would matter though.

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. Read my posts and find that I have put "IMO" in each one.



How many seasons of TUF have their been? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single coach who has sat at cage side and, while his fighter was still in the fight (he was losing the round but had won the first) thought it appropriate to call him a p*ssy and a b*tch.

In fact, in all of the fights i've watched and attended i've never heard it. Maybe it happens, but i've never heard it (off the top of my head).

He acted inappropriately IMO

Hugs and cuddles all round!

The Nasty McGregor Man made the poor fighter feel bad.

John_D80

Of course its a discussion forum. Its just a bit of banter mate. Nothing personal. No offence intended.

DeVore

Was Faber cornering his guy? I didn't think the coaches usually cornered their fighters in TUF... could be wrong though!

While I wasn't impressed with McGregor shouting stuff at Sascha, its far from unusual in American sports! Check out American football coaches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGXHxhDMBBY

In reality, in that moment sascha needed a kick in the arse to perhaps win the match and the rest of the team might not like it but the point wont be lost on them and perhaps they'll pay more attention in their fights. I might have worded it differently but I would definitely still have made my feeling clear. No point in molly coddling these guys, they want to be top of their sport and that only comes from near fanatical dedication and brutal honesty about the flaws in your game.


Sidenote: If you have ever played basketball seriously (and I have) you know what coaches can be like if you put a foot out of line. (and don't start me on the refs... I once looked sideways at a ref for a terrible call he made, just *looked* at him and he called a technical foul on me and chewed me out ). I hear the abuse football players give the ref in the premiership and I'm gobsmacked... basketball refs can arbitrarily change the score, dismiss you from the team and have you ejected from the *building* and I've seen all of those done
If you say anything to them but "yes sir, no sir" your coach will pull you off the floor and chew you a new one.

MrStuffins

DeVore wrote: »

Was Faber cornering his guy? I didn't think the coaches usually cornered their fighters in TUF... could be wrong though!

I'll need to watch it back but i'm almost sure he was. He certainly wasn't sitting on the bench where Conor was.

While I wasn't impressed with McGregor shouting stuff at Sascha, its far from unusual in American sports! Check out American football coaches! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGXHxhDMBBY

MMA isn't an "American sport" as such. And i'm sure it happens in American Football, on Broadway and at the Ballet. Doesn't make it appropriate.

CatFromHue

There's giving a guy a kick in the arse and then there's straight out insulting him though.

I'm fairly sure I saw Faber in the octogon between rounds.

JJayoo

DeVore wrote: »

While I wasn't impressed with McGregor shouting stuff at Sascha, its far from unusual in American sports! Check out American football coaches!

Such a strange comparison
Instead why not compare Conor's antics to other MMA coaches, I have never seen someone lose the cool like that during a fight, well maybe rampage when he decided to remove the door.

I think if John Kavanagh was there you would see a much calmer and in control Conor.

Devastator

MrStuffins wrote: »

How many seasons of TUF have their been? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single coach who has sat at cage side and, while his fighter was still in the fight (he was losing the round but had won the first) thought it appropriate to call him a p*ssy and a b*tch.

Ken Shamrock shouted "you p*ssy" and "You b*tch" during every single fight although it was probably directed at Tito and not his fighter

Axwell

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'll need to watch it back but i'm almost sure he was. He certainly wasn't sitting on the bench where Conor was.

Edit: Just had a quick check. Hes actually cage side for most of the fight and does corner in between rounds.

Hazys

The whole Conor not coaching all the time is a little weird to me. I know the TUF setup has Conor down as the main coach but at the end of the day Conor is a fighter not a coach. Faber has been coaching for years so i makes sense for him to be the main coach.

Conor is a fighter with experience and he can teach the guys one or two things when training with them but as for setting up training schedules, managing sessions, setting goals, managing groups, knowing what to focus on, etc., i can only imagine he has little experience. It takes Coaches years of coaching to master the art. Conor knows well that he should take a back seat to the coaching and let the experts who've got him to where he is today, coach.

MartyMcFly84

The whole Conor not coaching all the time is a little weird to me. I know the TUF setup has Conor down as the main coach but at the end of the day Conor is a fighter not a coach. Faber has been coaching for years so i makes sense for him to be the main coach.

Conor is a fighter with experience and he can teach the guys one or two things when training with them but as for setting up training schedules, managing sessions, setting goals, managing groups, knowing what to focus on, etc., i can only imagine he has little experience. It takes Coaches years of coaching to master the art. Conor knows well that he should take a back seat to the coaching and let the experts who've got him to where he is today, coach.

Well its kind of been the blue print of the Ultimate fighter since the start. Where more established fighters coach fighters who want to get into the UFC.

That is why the fighters bring coaching teams. It is taken that they might not actually be great coaches themselves, and normally they bring their actual coaches from back home

CatFromHue

One of the American lads writes a weekly blog of what happened on MMA Junkie.

This is his thoughts on the fight, which I think we can all agree on

The next day comes and we go to the fight. Sascha started out a little better than I had expected. He landed a few punches some good knees and even a takedown of his own. Chris is a bit of a grinder though, he weathered that and kept coming forward and ended the round on top. I’d still say Sascha won the first, but after that it was all downhill for him. You could see that he had broken. He was shooting from so far out, then when he had opportunities to get back to his feet he would pull back into guard. Conor was loosing it; he threw his glasses at the cage. He started calling Sascha a p-ssy and a b-tch. I actually felt bad for the guy at a certain point.

They went to a third, and it was more of the same. Sascha kept pulling guard and turtling up, Conor kept yelling, and Chris kept punching him.

and his thoughts on the new rules

At the end of practice is when they hit us with the announcement of bringing the two fighters back, and that one of the winning fights would be scrapped if it wasn’t entertaining enough. I won’t lie: I was a little pissed about that. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought this happened because McGregor wanted Artem back on the show. I thought, “What if my fight isn’t entertaining enough and I get pulled? I fought my ass off my first fight and I can get knocked out like that?”

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/09/the-ultimate-fighter-22-blog-james-jenkins-on-episode-no-2

Zero-Cool

I actually like the new rule. Sick of TUF wrestlers grinding their way to wins to secure the contract.

cletus

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I actually like the new rule. Sick of TUF wrestlers grinding their way to wins to secure the contract.

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

Dtp1979

cletus wrote: »

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

What's this new rule?

Subcomandante Marcos

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What's this new rule?

Instead of 8 guys in the 1/4 finals there are 9, so instead of 4 guys moving on to the semi finals, there will be 5, and one of those will be cut based on whether or not Dana White likes his style. It's a load of bollocks.

jjdonegal

cletus wrote: »

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

Well said. It's an awful precedent to set. I have never had a problem with world class wrestlers neutralising guys and grinding out the victory.

Devastator

TUF is an exhibition tournament, its about time they have brought something like this in because people have been looking to lay n pray since the first series to get through.

How many seasons have people said tuf is crap because the fights have been crap? Now people don't have that luxury to control their opponent for 2/3 rounds and try to get through without taking any damage. FS they are in the tournament to fight and win.

Any comparison to wwe is unbelievably ridiculous!


Seriously, if Conor wasn't a coach this series how many people would be watching? I wouldn't. I might catch the odd episode but not make a point of watching it, haven't done that with last 4/5(maybe more) series of TUF because its been crap. It was dying a very slow drawn out death, at least with this it might spark a little bit of life back into the format

Subcomandante Marcos

I'm watching because Ryan Hall is a contestant, I could give a fiddlers who the coaches are.

cletus

Devastator wrote: »

TUF is an exhibition tournament, its about time they have brought something like this in because people have been looking to lay n pray since the first series to get through.

How many seasons have people said tuf is crap because the fights have been crap? Now people don't have that luxury to control their opponent for 2/3 rounds and try to get through without taking any damage. FS they are in the tournament to fight and win.

Any comparison to wwe is unbelievably ridiculous!


Seriously, if Conor wasn't a coach this series how many people would be watching? I wouldn't. I might catch the odd episode but not make a point of watching it, haven't done that with last 4/5(maybe more) series of TUF because its been crap. It was dying a very slow drawn out death, at least with this it might spark a little bit of life back into the format

Its only an exhibition tournament to get around nsac rules on frequency of fights etc. To put control of a win in the hands of somebody external to the competition is analogous to having somebody standing on the sideline at a club championship quarter final in football, and then deciding that a winning team don't get to go through to the semis because their match wasn't exciting enough.

I don't know about you, but that's a damn sight closer to Vince McMahon's way of thinking than I want the sport I love to be

Devastator

cletus wrote: »

I don't know about you, but that's a damn sight closer to Vince McMahon's way of thinking than I want the sport I love to be

Its been 20 odd years since I watched wrestling so Im presuming thats someone involved in it. That statement is utter nonsense!


In TUF is the outcome of a fight is determined by the fighters or the judges, it is not pre-determined before they set foot in the octagon, therefore IT IS NOT like professional wrestling.

DeVore

plus TUF != UFC != MMA

TUF is a reality TV show... you might as well say "I don't want UFC fighters to be fighting every two weeks"... they do it in the house but not in the UFC.

Paully D

I know the show is heavily edited, but we can only go on what we've seen and I have to say I was very disappointed in Conor during that episode.

Firstly I will say I thought the advice he was giving to Sasha was very good and obviously he'll be extremely frustrated he wasn't taking any of it on board, but once it became clear that it wasn't going to be followed through on I thought he made himself look like a complete arse. Calling him a pussy was ridiculous, but not quite as ridiculous as his little speech in the dressing room afterwards. Sharma has just lost out on his dream of reaching the UFC and is already feeling like crap, yet Conor somehow succeeds in making him feel ever worse. I kind of wish he had let rip at Conor and told him to shut the **** up to be honest.

The episode was unique also as the only time I've ever seen Conor speechless since he blew up was when Faber told him he should start turning up to the morning sessions in the aftermath of that fight. It was probably edited that way, but again that's all we have to go on. Conor absolutely had Faber wound up regarding Dillashaw too.

A good episode overall.

cletus

Devastator wrote: »

In TUF is the outcome of a fight is determined by the fighters or the judges, it is not pre-determined before they set foot in the octagon, therefore IT IS NOT like professional wrestling.

Except that this season, for two fighters that WIN their fight, it won't be decided by them, it will be decided by a fat bald hypertensive man who's only real experience of combat is teaching boxercise

cletus

DeVore wrote: »

plus TUF != UFC != MMA

TUF is a reality TV show... you might as well say "I don't want UFC fighters to be fighting every two weeks"... they do it in the house but not in the UFC.

I am well aware that UFC does not equal MMA.

I am also aware that in a sporting context, an external person judging the quality of a win is only a few steps away from deciding who wins before the bout

Look at it like this. Ireland play Romania on Sunday with a heavily changed team. They win but its a poor game from a spectator's point of view. As a result, an official external the game decides that Ireland don't receive the points for the win, as the other games were more exciting. It's ridiculous.

nxbyveromdwjpg

cletus wrote: »

I really don't. One of the things that distinguish mma from wwe is that it is real, therefore like any sport, the winners and losers are decided by the actual competition. Not acknowledging a win in a tournament format because its not "exciting" enough is dangerously close to crossing that line. There would be uproar in any other sport if that was suggested

Don't want to be wrestle ****ed to a decision loss? Go work you takedown defence. Otherwise, a fight is a fight, and if a guy beats you cause he can do something you can't stop, then you lose

But this is the real world, they're fighting for UFC contract and Dana is looking for exciting fights and that's who he wants to sign.

If they want the job they need to fit the role, same as any other job.

Devastator

cletus wrote: »

Except that this season, for two fighters that WIN their fight, it won't be decided by them, it will be decided by a fat bald hypertensive man who's only real experience of combat is teaching boxercise

Its so simple and straight forward how TUF/UFC/MMA and wrestling are NOT the same I can't even start to understand how you do not get it!!

TUF/MMA/UFC = NO pre determined fights
Wrestling = Pre determined fights

Whether someone is kept in an exhitbition is absolutely FA to do with wrestling. Col. has summed it up perfectly, this situation is like a job interview, 3 people pass the interview but only 1 is offered the contract. Is this pro wrestling to you aswell? Is the ultimate warrior going to run in screaming and shake the boss by the ears? :rolleyes:


Whoa, so you don't like Dana but that is your 2nd absolute BS statement in your last few posts. Only experience is boxercise? hahaha, did you read that from Wiki and just ignore everything else he has been a part of in moving MMA/UFC forward globally?