TB testing

Who2

Wean the calf and isolate the cow asap, in a small shed ideally so it's easy cleaned. Keep her away from shared drinking sources and start torturing the department to get her removed they can arse about on this one for weeks. Plead with them that if she shows no lesions in factory that you can get away with one test. They won't be too keen but it's a bit of hope if she proves clear and they do it regularly. It will all depend on the department vet. I'm locked up here at the moment and its some pain. Start getting feeding and housing sorted if your short on space and try and suss out the different valuers in your area, because there can be a big difference between them. Ask a few farmers who have been down and they'll know which ones to go with. Again sorry and I feel your pain but I've resided to the fact that I'm moving from selling weanlings to finishing temporarily anyways.

Water John

WHO giving good advice. Good idea to develop a positive relationship, if possible, with your AO.
Don't believe it spreads from cow to cow but isolate anyway and do as requested. Build your brownie points, being a pain to an official gets you nothing but grief. On the other hand don't take any nonsense.
In fairness they do understand the impact it has on farm families.

RD10

Who2 wrote: »

Wean the calf and isolate the cow asap, in a small shed ideally so it's easy cleaned. Keep her away from shared drinking sources and start torturing the department to get her removed they can arse about on this one for weeks. Plead with them that if she shows no lesions in factory that you can get away with one test. They won't be too keen but it's a bit of hope if she proves clear and they do it regularly. It will all depend on the department vet. I'm locked up here at the moment and its some pain. Start getting feeding and housing sorted if your short on space and try and suss out the different valuers in your area, because there can be a big difference between them. Ask a few farmers who have been down and they'll know which ones to go with. Again sorry and I feel your pain but I've resided to the fact that I'm moving from selling weanlings to finishing temporarily anyways.

Thats great thanks who. Its doing my head in. Have so many questions for the vet and of course its a sunday.
Vet that checked them yesterday said to leave calf with the cow which i cant understand for the life of me, surely her calf is extremely high risk? Have cow and calf in a small paddock down the road from the house, thinking of letting calf down with rest of cattle. he'll still be able to come up to beside the mother, she'll be the other side of fence and drain obviously. I'm half afraid of letting calf back in with the rest in case he too is infected(even though nothing showed up.....yet) but have no choice. Wouldnt stay on its own and wont have the space in the winter to keep it on its own away from others.
Taught that alright about drinking sources, i'll do that straight away.
Typical im probably bit overstocked this year and was planning on shipping off few cows and the weanlings. I'll just about half the space for them. Likewise feed.
Supposed to be going away on business next week too. All very messy.
But thank you for the advice. Its good to get information somewhere.
Have u been locked up long yourself?
Also thanks to everyone else for your replys, nice to be able to get it off your chest in some way shape or form.

Water John

TB, won't transfer directly to the calf IMO.

Who2

RD10 wrote: »

Thats great thanks who. Its doing my head in. Have so many questions for the vet and of course its a sunday.
Vet that checked them yesterday said to leave calf with the cow which i cant understand for the life of me, surely her calf is extremely high risk? Have cow and calf in a small paddock down the road from the house, thinking of letting calf down with rest of cattle. he'll still be able to come up to beside the mother, she'll be the other side of fence and drain obviously. I'm half afraid of letting calf back in with the rest in case he too is infected(even though nothing showed up.....yet) but have no choice. Wouldnt stay on its own and wont have the space in the winter to keep it on its own away from others.
Taught that alright about drinking sources, i'll do that straight away.
Typical im probably bit overstocked this year and was planning on shipping off few cows and the weanlings. I'll just about half the space for them. Likewise feed.
Supposed to be going away on business next week too. All very messy.
But thank you for the advice. Its good to get information somewhere.
Have u been locked up long yourself?
Also thanks to everyone else for your replys, nice to be able to get it off your chest in some way shape or form.

Locked up two months now, have my first test in a couple of weeks and the last one the end of November. The couple of weeks they left me hanging with mine is what messed me up with selling weanlings if I come clear I'd be taking a fair hit selling in December so I'm going to hold regardless if I come clear. I pulled out the bill after eight weeks this year luckily so it was a great way of clearing out the late calvers, also cows are fierce easy finished, throw a kilo of meal on grass even with the calves and they won't be long warming up.

RD10

Who2 wrote: »

Locked up two months now, have my first test in a couple of weeks and the last one the end of November. The couple of weeks they left me hanging with mine is what messed me up with selling weanlings if I come clear I'd be taking a fair hit selling in December so I'm going to hold regardless if I come clear. I pulled out the bill after eight weeks this year luckily so it was a great way of clearing out the late calvers, also cows are fierce easy finished, throw a kilo of meal on grass even with the calves and they won't be long warming up.

Will be january/february at the very least for me by the sounds of things. May as well keep them on at that rate please god i get cleared. Was it a cow you went down on too?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

TB, won't transfer directly to the calf IMO.

That's the thing, John.

It will.

My neighbours are locked up again with calves going down due to cows having TB and feeding that milk to calves before it was discovered.

Saying that, I had a suckler go down with TB last year and her calf was grand, passed 3 clear tests now so who really knows,

Who2

RD10 wrote: »

Will be january/february at the very least for me by the sounds of things. May as well keep them on at that rate please god i get cleared. Was it a cow you went down on too?

No it was a young heifer, first time ever for me. There's a lot of lads within a five mile radius going down at the moment. Farms that never had it. You'd have to wonder if it's a vets way of making work now the brucellosis is more or less gone.

blue5000

How are you for feed RD? Depends where you are, but you could try a field of rape, direct drill it in after roundup, and spread a pallet of urea on the rest before the 15th sept.

I think it makes no difference leaving the cow with the calf, only difference is if the cow is absolutely rotten with tb and transmitting it in the milk. She'll have to be valued, if the calf is very young you might have the option to slaughter the calf as well, I didn't.

One annoying thing is that continental cows are worth more than trad breeds, also younger cows are worth more. They don't take €ebi into consideration at valuation ....yet for sucklers, but if you have 5 star cows print off a herd report and show it to the valuer. Generally if it's only one I wouldn't contest the value, it delays things, try make it look like you want her gone fast.

Might be worth giving the bank a phone call.

You'll get a hardship grant for being locked up in the winter months too, check with dept if you have to apply, might be just for full time farmers though.

Any questions fire away, you're not the only one, lots of us here have been through it. Think positive, this might be your chance to go from selling weanlings to finishing.

Who2

blue5000 wrote: »

How are you for feed RD? Depends where you are, but you could try a field of rape, direct drill it in after roundup, and spread a pallet of urea on the rest before the 15th sept.

I think it makes no difference leaving the cow with the calf, only difference is if the cow is absolutely rotten with tb and transmitting it in the milk. She'll have to be valued, if the calf is very young you might have the option to slaughter the calf as well, I didn't.

One annoying thing is that continental cows are worth more than trad breeds, also younger cows are worth more. They don't take €ebi into consideration at valuation ....yet for sucklers, but if you have 5 star cows print off a herd report and show it to the valuer. Generally if it's only one I wouldn't contest the value, it delays things, try make it look like you want her gone fast.

Might be worth giving the bank a phone call.

You'll get a hardship grant for being locked up in the winter months too, check with dept if you have to apply, might be just for full time farmers though.

Any questions fire away, you're not the only one, lots of us here have been through it. Think positive, this might be your chance to go from selling weanlings to finishing.

I checked out the hardship grant and was told 10% had to go down.

blue5000

Who2 wrote: »

I checked out the hardship grant and was told 10% had to go down.

I think there's a seperate flat rate one for the winter months though?

Who2

blue5000 wrote: »

I think there's a seperate flat rate one for the winter months though?

Don't know but I'm presuming it's like all grants there's a limit to off farm income and about two miles of paperwork.

Who2

Googled it and: no off farm income allowed. Payments from 1/11 to April of a maximum of 250 per month and a few other bits and pieces. Not a whole pile of good.

Mooooo

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

TB, won't transfer directly to the calf IMO.

That's the thing, John.

It will.

My neighbours are locked up again with calves going down due to cows having TB and feeding that milk to calves before it was discovered.

Saying that, I had a suckler go down with TB last year and her calf was grand, passed 3 clear tests now so who really knows,

A lot of us were locked up for 12 months 3 years ago, neighbour went clear. Send a cull to factory then 9 months ago killed out rotten with lesions. That cows was tested at least 12 times including going clear in annual herd test mere weeks before factory. Sometimes those with the worst case of it don't have the immune system response to go down in skin test, only conclusion we could come to anyway. Could be wrong in that.
We're locked up now as well. Heifer went down back in march, neigjbour of our outfarm where calves are had a lot of reactors so from there it came, our own cows clean as a whistle. Will be testing to go clear this month but set afield of redstart in case I have to winter the extra 30 or so calves we couldn't sell since spring.

blue5000

Who2 wrote: »

Googled it and: no off farm income allowed. Payments from 1/11 to April of a maximum of 250 per month and a few other bits and pieces. Not a whole pile of good.

Have you the links there so RD can have a read of it.
Yes I agree, I think it's supposed to be used for cattle feed, doesn't matter if you have 5 or 105 cattle, it's still 250.

Who2

blue5000 wrote: »

Have you the links there so RD can have a read of it.
Yes I agree, I think it's supposed to be used for cattle feed, doesn't matter if you have 5 or 105 cattle, it's still 250.

Just googled hardship grant for cattle when locked up with tb, not great on hooking up links.

Lady Haywire

Who2 wrote: »

Just googled hardship grant for cattle when locked up with tb, not great on hooking up links.

Off here- http://agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/diseasecontrol/bovinetberadicationandbrucellosismonitoringscheme/diseaseeradicationtb/dafmtberadicationschemes/

Hardship Grant
The Hardship Grant eligibility period runs from 1 November to 30 April. This Scheme is designed to alleviate the costs difficulty of some owners whose holdings are restricted on foot of a herd retest and where animals are retained and fed during periods of restriction. Potentially eligible owners must meet certain conditions, including requirements that they (i) must not have any income from milk sales and (ii) must not have any off-farm income. In addition, the general rule is that where animals (with exceptions noted above) have been moved on to a holding during a restriction period, eligibility for receipt of the hardship grants ceases for the remainder of the restriction period.
The Grant may provide eligible owners with a payment of up €250.00 per month for a period not exceeding 4months within the period 1 November to 30 April.
The onus is on potentially eligible owners to ensure that they obtain and familiarise themselves with the terms and conditions document and application form ER97. Potentially eligible owners are issued with the terms and conditions document, important notice and application form ER97 by the RVO. Supplies of the relevant documentation are also available at RVOs. The onus is on the owners to apply for a Hardship Grant.

Water John

Its a fund to try and make sure cattle don't go hungry, not you.

whelan2

Water John wrote: »

Its a fund to try and make sure cattle don't go hungry, not you.

What about the FIS,is there much to applying for that?

Rushy Fields

Had a reactor on Saturday. Its the first time went down in i'd say 30yrs. Changed from Dairy to suckler in the early 90's. A dry cow that i was planning on selling when housing. Couldnt get her to keep in calf. Disgusted. Have weanling bulls ready to go in the next few weeks. Now have to squeeze them as i have no seperate housing for them as bulls over the winter. I will be okay for fodder but housing is going to be tight as my cull cows will have to stay and my replacement heifers are inseminated.
Have a closed herd for years. I dont buy in anything so i'm a bit dissapointed this has happened.
Neighbour had 6 gone down a few weeks ago. so i got the letter and DVO Vet was out to do the test, he measured her a few times as it must have been borderline..... Another neighbour went down with 8 on saturday in two different plots 4 in each..
Had a dept test this time last year and went ok and then my annual in March and that went ok.
Now this one.....!
Plenty of woodland and bog around where i am.... Havn't seen badgers around but plenty of deer!!!
Had her with 6 other late calvers on rushy ground near woodland where plenty of cover was available for the Deer/wildlife for most of the summer... Dont want to isolate her as she is a nervous type. and wont be easy to get in on her own....
i just wonder about the whole thing ........conspiracy theories and all that!!:mad:

blue5000

nealger wrote: »

Had a reactor on Saturday. Its the first time went down in i'd say 30yrs. Changed from Dairy to suckler in the early 90's. A dry cow that i was planning on selling when housing. Couldnt get her to keep in calf. Disgusted. Have weanling bulls ready to go in the next few weeks. Now have to squeeze them as i have no seperate housing for them as bulls over the winter. I will be okay for fodder but housing is going to be tight as my cull cows will have to stay and my replacement heifers are inseminated.
Have a closed herd for years. I dont buy in anything so i'm a bit dissapointed this has happened.
Neighbour had 6 gone down a few weeks ago. so i got the letter and DVO Vet was out to do the test, he measured her a few times as it must have been borderline..... Another neighbour went down with 8 on saturday in two different plots 4 in each..
Had a dept test this time last year and went ok and then my annual in March and that went ok.
Now this one.....!
Plenty of woodland and bog around where i am.... Havn't seen badgers around but plenty of deer!!!
Had her with 6 other late calvers on rushy ground near woodland where plenty of cover was available for the Deer/wildlife for most of the summer... Dont want to isolate her as she is a nervous type. and wont be easy to get in on her own....
i just wonder about the whole thing ........conspiracy theories and all that!!:mad:

I know how you feel, closed herd here too. I actually went and bought one of them IR cameras hunters use to track deer and I suppose my fears were eased when I saw badgers on the camera.
It's a good time to take out reactors though before housing, hopefully it's only one. Was there any doubtfuls?

ganmo

Deer! I don't think theres any doubt that they carry + spread it

they're in season now ...just saying

Rushy Fields

blue5000 wrote: »

I know how you feel, closed herd here too. I actually went and bought one of them IR cameras hunters use to track deer and I suppose my fears were eased when I saw badgers on the camera.
It's a good time to take out reactors though before housing, hopefully it's only one. Was there any doubtfuls?

No Doubtfuls but the vet was very thoro.... measuerd with callipers at least 50% Had a bull weanling that looked like he had lumps but he was sound.

Walked through them yesterday and again this morning to see any lumps but none and the reactors lump had gone down..... It doesnt stay up too long does it?
Was told 2nd hand that a guy culling deer around here found lesions while gutting out the deer not sure whether or not to believe it ..... the more i think about the system/dept the more annoyed i get.....
But what can you say .... im only small fry i a big pot!!

Water John

No doubt wildlife is a key intermediary. Most infections occur during grazing season. AFAIR they housed stock and tried to get bovine cross infection spread, but it didn't happen.

Mooooo

Maize and in particular beet left in yard are big draws for badgers as well. Local vet told us once of a badger coming in to a trough in a shed of weanlings on one farm, farmer wouldn't have believed it if it wasn't for the fact he'd seen it. Generally we've rarely gone down when stock are inside mainly when herd is out for a few months

RD10

Thanks for all the tips, info and links put up guys. Its very helpful.
First time i ever bought in was last year and year before. It could have been that she had it last year and it just never showed up.
Was talking to nice vet there a while ago and he said it cant be passed from cow to calf through the milk. but then another vet might tell u otherwise. Calf is weaned now anyway and cow is doubly stressed now with being on her own and seperated from calf. Has to be done though.
My vet didnt even check the size. Very words were 'thats a big lump'

whelan2

RD10 wrote: »

Thanks for all the tips, info and links put up guys. Its very helpful.
First time i ever bought in was last year and year before. It could have been that she had it last year and it just never showed up.
Was talking to nice vet there a while ago and he said it cant be passed from cow to calf through the milk. but then another vet might tell u otherwise. Calf is weaned now anyway and cow is doubly stressed now with being on her own and seperated from calf. Has to be done though.
My vet didnt even check the size. Very words were 'thats a big lump'

:eek: thats crazy, he didnt even measure her? Did he clip her before injecting her. In my county they are very hard on the vets that everything has to be done 100% correct.

RD10

whelan2 wrote: »

:eek: thats crazy, he didnt even measure her? Did he clip her before injecting her. In my county they are very hard on the vets that everything has to be done 100% correct.

No just ran his hand over it. Showed me the small lump at the top then.
She was one of the last to be done and i missed him clipping her actually because a calf tried to escape but by the way he done the rest he wasnt taking shortcuts.
Does tb affect fertility?

Mooooo

You sure he didn't measure? Fair enough it could have been plain as day being a reactor but measurements should be recorded. Dept came and checked cows here after a test one year, nothing untoward just that we seemed to be having one in each test for a few in a row. Twas a pure pia as having one go down in one test and then another in the next or second one after stretched the whole thing out. I would say most vets are precise enough in measuring.

greysides

For TB to be spread in milk it would require a seat of infection in the udder, tuberculous mastitis. This is exceedingly rare these days. To all extents and purposes, the answer is 'no'. But, as always, everyone has a story.
For TB to cause infertility the cow would have to be clinical case. A situation which is also exceedingly rare.