Final Fantasy VII Remaster/Remake

one armed dwarf

Someone uploaded a picture of the back of the box placeholder and it actually says 'this first part covers up to the parties escape from Midgar', or words to that effect.

The messaging is pretty weird. They want people to know but they put it in small print basically. Essentially there's a reason now why the first 10 minutes of FFVII takes an hour in this demo.

Kunkka

Retr0gamer wrote: »

FFVII wasn't that long a game. 40 hours to beat it. And midgar was the highpoint, it was a bit downhill after that.

The story only really takes off after Midgar in the original so I couldn't disagree more with this.

In terms of the evolution of the original game you hadn't even got summon materia until outside Midgar. Not to mention the best cut scenes during the last 3 quarters of the game, which were the best ever seen in gaming up until that point in my opinion...

RobbingBandit

It took 40 hours to beat the damn emerald weapon and near twice that for ruby

Zero-Cool

Class

https://twitter.com/Lorderk/status/1234529240629989378?s=19

Taylor365

RobbingBandit wrote: »

It took 40 hours to beat the damn emerald weapon and near twice that for ruby

W-Summon KOTRx2, Mime, Mime, go to work, come home, mime again.

one armed dwarf

I spent some time practicing the scorpion boss, pretty happy with this fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=186aWOQN644

Even if this ends up being a ****e remake we will have gotten an excellent fighting system out of it.

Not sure how you can think it's going to be ****e

That was class, just hungry for more now

endainoz

This sums up the demo for me.

Retr0gamer

Fighting with PS4 to get it to connect to the router. Updating it sloooowly.

Utter junk console.

endainoz

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's only a timed exclusive so coming to PC.

I can wait.

:pac:

This aged well. Wired connection is the way to go for a console by the way.

Retr0gamer

endainoz wrote: »

:pac:

This aged well. Wired connection is the way to go for a console by the way.

Oh I'll be getting the PC version. Just wanted to check out demo.

And wired isn't an option for a lot of people. Especially ones in rented accomodations.

Benzino

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Oh I'll be getting the PC version. Just wanted to check out demo.

And wired isn't an option for a lot of people. Especially ones in rented accomodations.

Home plugs should make it accessible to most people, at relatively little cost.

Retr0gamer

Well that was fun if not mind blowing.

Combat seems to have a bit of depth as well even if it seems a bit bloated and complicated.

johnny_ultimate

Whole lot of ‘hmmm’ for me there. Good to hear those music cues given socks, and like how they’ve kept the iconic design of Midgar intact. Other than that found it loud, overblown and somewhat irritating. The combat system, at least in its default state (is classic available in it?), is the overbusy hybrid of real-time/turn-based I feared it would be - not the worst of its kind, but I just don’t find systems if that ilk all that interesting or satisfying to play. Short time with it, granted, so maybe it improves as you get used to it.

Voice acting’s stilted as anything (come back badly translated text boxes!), and still just don’t like those Advent Children-y character designs. Those things combine in Cloud himself - always a somewhat obnoxious git, but doubly so here. Smashing boxes and dodging lasers outside combat wasn’t very interesting.

Not a great demo for me, then: didn’t really allay any of the concerns I had about it. Hopefully the less combat heavy parts of Midgar will be more enjoyable and provide a fair old chunk of variety in the final release.

Barrett

blaring out the victory theme

is good, tho.

Seriously the original intro mission to FF7 was loud and overblown

That's the whole point of the theme of the mission to blow up the reactor

They captured it's expense perfectly and the characters

gimli2112

I wasn't a fan of the combat, flipping between one character to another was confusing, camera angles were a problem, it seemed that I could murder everything easily by mashing the square button, although I only played it for 20 minutes and didn't get to the Scorpion boss.
As someone said yesterday it's hard shaking the fact you're getting a fraction of the game for full price. I'm kind of gone back on the fence on it now.

I'll probably still get it once I burn out on the Division and COD. Doom is probably ahead of it too.

The scorpion boss prevents you from button mashing that's for sure. It does take getting used too but I started to get of the combat more once the boss battle arrived.

I haven't tried classic mode so interested to see how that works

Retr0gamer

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously the original intro mission to FF7 was loud and overblown

That's the whole point of the theme of the mission to blow up the reactor

They captured it's expense perfectly and the characters

No it wasn't. Once you got into the reactor the pace slowed right down. It was quite subtle. It became more ominous.

This was just flat out anime with guards everywhere. Definitely didn't fell like any sort of infiltration mission.

Have to agree on the sentiments about the combat as well. There's a lot of Xenoblade in there but it also feels way more complicated than it needs to be with a lot of systems that aren't really gelling.

Classic mode is just xenoblade with the characters continuously attacked and you select commands.

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No it wasn't. Once you got into the reactor the pace slowed right down. It was quite subtle. It became more ominous.

This was just flat out anime with guards everywhere. Definitely didn't fell like any sort of infiltration mission.

Have to agree on the sentiments about the combat as well. There's a lot of Xenoblade in there but it also feels way more complicated than it needs to be with a lot of systems that aren't really gelling.

Classic mode is just xenoblade with the characters continuously attacked and you select commands.

Nope you are wrong IMO

Original

Remake

Expanded in the remake but practically identical in pacing bar it's a bit longer

Ramps up for first 10 minutes - Bombastic
Ramps down after 10 minutes - Slower paced
Ramps up again for the boss

Retr0gamer

Well we will agree to disagree. The original for me was excellently paced, it was brave enough to slow down in places which gave it a different feeling from other RPGs at the time. The Remake is just unsubtle and loud. It's not bad but it doesn't have the ominous feeling the original expertly crafted for the bombing mission. The remake feels like every other triple A game out there were it can't slow down for fear of losing the audience. Maybe it will slow down afterwards but the cutscene that finishes off the section doesn't point to that.

It feels like a very different game than the original to me. Not that that's a bad thing, but would like if the finished game is not afraid to slow down a little. We will always have the original so if this wants to be something different then I'm ok. But I definitely didn't get a nostalgia hit playing it and would play the original over this remake, the bombing mission is handled way better in it.

Also this game kind of highlights how much this generation is struggling graphically. There's some pretty bad aliasing issues and some of the effects work is barely holding together. Not a FF7 issue but just haven't played a PS4 game in a long time and its strange to see it struggle or half arse a lot of effects.

johnny_ultimate

The fact it’s expanded is the problem - pacing is not the same when it’s 10-15 mins vs 35-40 mins. The demo dragged because it tried to keep up the relentless, bombastic pace for much longer, whereas the original opening is tight and snappy. Thats honestly one of the things I’m concerned the full remake will be - baggy and overextended. This demo provides little hope for me that won’t be the case.

Although honestly I still think the fact that the game will end when the original starts getting really good is a fundamental problem I simply can’t see this one overcoming.

Retr0gamer

The original never got as good as Midgar for me.

There were some parts that almost got there, Junon was always a joy and loved the visit to the city of the ancients when the game took away all random encounters. And of course golden saucer if they change that god damn music! But people forget the fluff it's padded out with. Would be looking forward wo seeing those parts of the game with better focus and pace.

johnny_ultimate

Well I think the one thing this remake certainly won’t have on the basis of what we’ve seen is better focus and pace

I love the Midgar section in the original, but I have so many fond memories of the rest of the game - from the Highwind taking to the sky to weapon ominously crossing the ocean. Obviously there’s filler, but I always loved how mad and expansive the whole thing is once it open up to the world outside Midgar. Having to wait for two or three entire games for that expansiveness, if we ever get it, has never appealed to me. The expansiveness here seems to consist of dragging the arse out of every story beat and set piece.

one armed dwarf

So I should share my thoughts, I think I gave the impression I thought it was ****e earlier which isn't the case. But I do think it's a bit sterile and doesn't come close to capturing that magic of the original game. It's a couple of small things like the appearance of the HUD, the design of certain areas like the laser obstacle course. The very slow pace and the orchestral soundtrack. It's kind of a simulacrum of somebody's idea of FFVII. It does make some choices I like though. I like that it isn't afraid to still be silly.

The dithering looks pretty bad. Visually I'm disappointed especially after looking at Gears 5 (PC especially). Unreal can do a lot more hear. Maybe the feathered hair of an FF character doesn't play well with Unreal (imagine Marcus Fenix with Nomura hair).

But I really love the combat. I think it makes such good decisions. There is some jank in how it all feels but I think this build is probably as old as November or December, based on the original leak. There is a great push/pull in its systems which incentivises efficient use of ATB and cooldowns. Cloud's stances have different properties which affect how quickly he can recover and dodge attacks, which means you need to know a fight pretty well if you decide to dodge. I think it has a much more proactive rather than a reactive style to its fighting, meaning that you really want to find those opportunities to stack ATB actions on top of each other and maximise burst damage during stagger windows, like FFXIII.

Positioning is also important. Cloud's braver is his most powerful attack but it has crap distance closing properties so you need to use his stinger also. If you 'pressure' the boss (a lightning spell can do this) you can take the opportunity to charge up Barrett's 'overcharge' attack which boosts ATB and can also interrupt the boss's attacks.

It's really well designed. But it's very janky feeling in this build and again I just don't think the game looks that good visually. Cloud looks like his face and hair is smeared in vaseline sometimes and the backdrops inside the reactor core look almost last gen. Midgar itself does look a lot nicer but these scenes are dark anyway. Brightly lit sections are just a bit strange.

I took another video trying the scorpion fight out once I had a better grasp of its mechanics. I guess if you're not into tactical action RPG it might be a dud but I think there's a great sense of both speed and precision here which I really enjoy. The decision making is a lot of fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3zULSdf2JY

edit also yes the pacing between a 12 minute take on the bombing mission and a 45-50 minute take is not going to be the same. I felt how much slower this one was, opening every door was a big event and I think now that the whole game will be like that. Meh, at least the fighting is cool

Retr0gamer

Very much doubt we are going to get that world map you want considering it's been said to be off the table for these games. I think a Parasite eve type location selection is what we will get.

It sounds like some are still struggling to accept that this won't go beyond Midgar as opposed to actually critiquing it on it's own merits.

I've accepted the fact this is going to be in Midgar only. Think if you can accept this then your expectations will follow suit.

The minor expansion on the pacing is understandable in that case. For fans of the game like me I imagine this will be great.

Please note that's not a swipe. The debate is healthy

Retr0gamer

Fans will like it, it's far from a bad game. The problem with fans is they tend to ignore the flaws and gloss over criticism.

For me it just could be better. The original is still way better. And in a lot of major ways it misses a lot of what made the original so good with trying to appeal to a more modern audience.

I'm sure I'll enjoy the full game on PC. Despite all the flak thrown at squaresoft their only misstep in the last... probably over a decade now, was FF13 (KH3 is dirt but that series has always been dirt). Think there's a lot of potential in the battle system.

Tazzimus

I enjoyed it anyway, think the problem most people have is they've already played the original so are comparing like for like, rather than original v remake.
Combat was decent enough as well, I went for the classic type, which kinda gave me 12/13 vibes off it.

one armed dwarf

I'm critiquing it on its own merits. This game will probably not deviate from the broad strokes of the Midgar plot, which is a problem in itself as Midgar has maybe 3 or so major plot moments on which to hinge the narrative. Reactor 1, meeting Aerith, plate collapse and Shinra HQ are the big parts of the game that influence events and how the shape out.

The extra stuff like the new SOLDIER and new moments with Jesse etc are nice but they aren't world changing story beats that are going to make this story feel more urgent and engaging. So it is absolutely fair on that basis to look at what we're getting and criticise how it will likely play out. The best analogy for this exists in films with the Hobbit series, which had a really weird pace and lots of messy plotlines thrown in to make it all feel 'bigger'.

This is why for me I don't really care if it's a good remake or not. I never imagined that a FFVII remake would be a fairly linear looking action game just set in Midgar. But I've come to accept that that's what we're getting and I'm determined to enjoy the parts of it that look good (the combat) and just put up with the bits that might not be (slow paced narrative).

I bet I'll still have a good time come April 10

To elaborate, very hard to identify clear flaws with a 30 - 40 minute 2019 build demo in all fairness.
I think this will be easier to point out flaws once the game launches.