Traveller families refusing to move to purpose built houses

mikemac1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

By the way, afaik this is the site the travellers currently live in, in case anyone thinks they've been living in the lap of luxury
http://www.newstalk.com/Irelands-Shantytown

So the laneway to school is overgrown

A slash hook, a strimmer and some weed spray and two men would clear that in a morning.

There are volunteers working away in rural parishes all over Ireland for tidy towns. Are all the residents in the halting bone idle

Doesnt have to be men, there are lads off school for summer. Sometimes you have to help yourselves.

mfceiling

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But that's not indicative of cruelty.

In recent years , it has become popular in some quarters to return to a simpler model of horsemanship: suddenly as horse-people we seem to have realised that wintering-out our animals without rugs is nothing to be afraid of; horses have been doing it for millenia.

Personally, I see indoor stabling as an unfortunate necessity, to be avoided where possible. I think there is a great deal to be admired in the natural horsemanship I have personally witnessed amongst travellers, some of whom have a lot more in common with experienced yardowners and the old-fashioned trainers (in terms of their practical approach) than the more recent type of owner, the Celtic-Tiger-era, one-horse owner who keeps their only animal in livery, and is too easily alarmed at minor hazards like frost and rainfall.

There have been numerous attacks on traveller housing in the past few years; it tends to happen before the travellers move in

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/two-houses-burned-in-attack-on-traveller-complex-1.1314489

I thought it was obvious that the security was intended to protect the property from the settled community. I don't think the travellers are about to burn down the development that many of them are already willing to enter. The remaining travellers don't seem to be opposed to the development, they are simply looking for extra provisions.

They have a history of burning down accommodation that has been provided for them. How do I know? I watched the fire brigade attempt to put out the fire on 3 separate occasions from the last house I lived in. I also went to look at a traveller's house that was burnt. We priced the work for repairing it. The other 7 houses in the estate were boarded up after being trashed. The entire complex had been ruined...you couldn't have done a better job if you'd spent a week at it.

Pumpkinseeds

pickarooney wrote: »

How many of youse would like to be told "feck off out of your house, Apple needs the space, we've built you a new space with a gym because you all love boxing. By the way, your pets can't come"

I don't know how compulsory purchase works here, but in other countries when the council wants your home to build on they pay you what they consider market value and you've no choice but to move out and make your own housing arrangements. They've been given state of the art housing 200 metres from their old accomodation. There's just no helping some people. Frankly, fcuk em all, build trailer parks and force them to pay to live there, just like their kind in America. Ethnic minority my ass.:rolleyes:

Valetta

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they gave these homes to homeless people, then how much would that reduce the homeless rate in Cork? People are saying they're purpose-built for travellers - what does this mean exactly? Do travellers have special housing conditions?

They have special greenhouses attached where they can grow their culture.

nullzero

More free housing for travellers to move into some to store their huge piles of cash and complain about being marginalized in society and being victims of "racism" while calling every black person the see a n1gger.

bottlebrush

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I don't know how compulsory purchase works here, but in other countries when the council wants your home to build on they pay you what they consider market value and you've no choice but to move out and make your own housing arrangements. They've been given state of the art housing 200 metres from their old accomodation. There's just no helping some people. Frankly, fcuk em all, build trailer parks and force them to pay to live there, just like their kind in America. Ethnic minority my ass.:rolleyes:

"If your house and land is compulsorily purchased, you will be eligible for compensation to restore you as far as possible to the same position as you were in before the land and property was acquired.

You should be paid compensation based on the market value of your property.
You should be left in the same financial position after the CPO as you were before the process.
The compensation should reflect both the actual land acquired and the reduction in value, if any, of the retained area as a result of the CPO".

Was just researching CPO process as you posted. I copied the above from the Citizen's Advice website. I think the members of the travelling community in Cork are being offered a good deal and shouldn't be looking the proverbial gift horse in the mouth.

AlekSmart

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

In recent years , it has become popular in some quarters to return to a simpler model of horsemanship: suddenly as horse-people we seem to have realised that wintering-out our animals without rugs is nothing to be afraid of; horses have been doing it for millenia.

Personally, I see indoor stabling as an unfortunate necessity, to be avoided where possible. I think there is a great deal to be admired in the natural horsemanship I have personally witnessed amongst travellers, some of whom have a lot more in common with experienced yardowners and the old-fashioned trainers (in terms of their practical approach) than the more recent type of owner, the Celtic-Tiger-era, one-horse owner who keeps their only animal in livery, and is too easily alarmed at minor hazards like frost and rainfall.

There have been numerous attacks on traveller housing in the past few years; it tends to happen before the travellers move in

I thought it was obvious that the security was intended to protect the property from the settled community. I don't think the travellers are about to burn down the development that many of them are already willing to enter. The remaining travellers don't seem to be opposed to the development, they are simply looking for extra provisions.

I would contend that the "Natural Horsemanship" you have personally witnessed is no more prevalent within the modern Traveller population than it is within the general horseowning one.

I suggest that The Celtic Horseypersons you know of are equally non-indicative of the overriding (:o) abilities of horseowners in general.

The issues surrounding the burning of caravans and houses for a variety of traveller specific reasons are supposedly complex and interwoven in the web of traveller culture going back centuries.

It may well have been acceptable during times when piseóg's ruled the poor,ill-educated downtrodden populaces thoughts,but I'm afraid I cannot even nod in it's direction in the 21st Century.

Sadly however,whenever the issue of Travellers rights et al is raised,it tends to avoid confronting issues such as why there is so much Traveller on Traveller violence,and why some sections of Traveller culture are so insistent on preventing other Travellers from availing of "settled" life benefits....and by association....responsibilities ?

Miall108

All these state of the art facilities and they still wont move in. What more do they want? A trough to eat out of??

JustTheOne

Do they pay for electricity, bins, heat etc?

Unbelievable.

Sheep Lover

Keep giving them it for nothing and they'll keep taking it for nothing. They contribute nothing to society yet take, take, take in more than one sense of the word.

Specialun

Why are they called travellers if they wont move...

Specialun

By the way i know this site and area v well..its a joke. They have wrecked the place,

Dog roaming around with bones sticking out their so hungry. People in apple feed them as they walk up to close to reception.

Horses with less hair than anew bornbabys ass.

Not too long ago horses were taken off them by animal rights route..then they threw stones and rocks into the car park and did tnousands of damage

There now houses are great..they taking the fcuking piss..there nothing but ashower of khunts

c_man

JustTheOne wrote: »

Do they pay for electricity, bins, heat etc?

Yeah, they have the tv licence and all :pac:

RayM

Look on the bright side - over the last few years, the state has saved at least a couple of million by cutting much-needed educational support for Traveller children, thus ensuring that future generations will remain marginalised.

Oh, wait... that's not good, is it? In fact, it'll probably cost the state more in the long term...

Oh well, at least Travellers die younger than the rest of us - especially the male ones (average life expectancy of 62 years). And they're six times more likely to kill themselves, so that's good too, right?

MathDebater

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

It's generally not though. And in fact most of the issues are settled people not wanting them living near them.

Would you consent to these houses being built near where you live?

THAT is a huge problem. Settled people don't want travelers in their neighborhoods. Not ever the decent ones. Market value suffers and the fact that it does should speak for how we look at them.

Plenty of settled travellers live in residential areas and get on fine with their settled neighbours. People have issue with temporary halting sites being set up as the area quickly becomes an utter dump and they don't follow basic waste disposal methods. Mad as it may sound, people don't like eyesores, an increase in crime and anti social in the area where they live.

You trying to make out that it's settled people at fault here is hilarious.

byhookorbycrook

RayM wrote: »

Look on the bright side - over the last few years, the state has saved at least a couple of million by cutting much-needed educational support for Traveller children, thus ensuring that future generations will remain marginalised.

Supports for all children have been cut, not just Travellers.

LadyFenghuang

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

RayM wrote: »

Look on the bright side - over the last few years, the state has saved at least a couple of million by cutting much-needed educational support for Traveller children, thus ensuring that future generations will remain marginalised.

Supports for all children have been cut, not just Travellers.

Very true.

RayM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Supports for all children have been cut, not just Travellers.

State spending on Traveller education has been cut by 86% since 2008. But that's good, isn't it? Because we hate them.

byhookorbycrook

RayM wrote: »

State spending on Traveller education has been cut by 86% since 2008. But that's good, isn't it? Because we hate them.

What about support for children with dyslexia who no longer get resource hours at all???? But please, don't let facts get in your way.

AlekSmart

RayM wrote: »

Look on the bright side - over the last few years, the state has saved at least a couple of million by cutting much-needed educational support for Traveller children, thus ensuring that future generations will remain marginalised.

Oh, wait... that's not good, is it? In fact, it'll probably cost the state more in the long term...

Oh well, at least Travellers die younger than the rest of us - especially the male ones (average life expectancy of 62 years). And they're six times more likely to kill themselves, so that's good too, right?

Whether you want it to be right or wrong,the reality of the situations you outline is readily and verifiably apparent.

I'm unsure as to whether you are suggesting the causes of Male Travellers Life Expectancy and/or Suicide rates are to be laid primarily at the feet of the Settled Community (including Settled Travellers).

This would be both regrettable and untenable.

For at least three decades the main negative influences on Traveller Health and Education have come from within the Traveller Community.

Any & all,attempts to require levels of responsibility,cooperation and committment approaching those of other communities have been strenuously resisted...with,as yet,virtually No debate on the Internal Traveller Tensions responsible.

LadyFenghuang

MathDebater wrote: »

You trying to make out that it's settled people at fault here is hilarious.

Both sides are part of the problem to varying degrees in different situations. The traveler community was not created in a vacuum. In this scenario they appear to be in the wrong. But not always. And this scenario this is part of a wider problem and the responses here are not responding JUST to this scenario but are responding to and emoting about a wider problem.

To Elland Back

This thread will be closed soon and for one reason only. Joe public is not allowed express his justified concerns for fear of having the weight of legislation being brought to bear against him. The same legislation that certain sectors selectively choose to ignore or use to their satisfaction.

This cowering to the PC brigade will bite us in the ass big time very soon

Bongalongherb

You have single folk waiting 15 years for a duplex/apartment and these travellers are refusing to move in to this purpose-built housing complex, that's worse than fcuked up. €5 million ? it's insane, it's a right killer and depression-state that your taxes are going to this and they still refuse. Kick them out of the halting site and give them nothing after refusing this amazing opportunity of a new home.

Give it to the folk that have been waiting 15 years of their life to get a simple abode. Sickening.

Tin Foil Hat

anncoates wrote: »

Presumably it's specific halting site style houses. Not really applicable to normal accommodation.

I've been on the site doing a delivery. Nice little houses with a central communal building. Lovely place - or at lease it is until these fukking tramps finally move in and wreck it.

Juanito13

RayM wrote: »

Look on the bright side - over the last few years, the state has saved at least a couple of million by cutting much-needed educational support for Traveller children, thus ensuring that future generations will remain marginalised.

Oh, wait... that's not good, is it? In fact, it'll probably cost the state more in the long term...

Oh well, at least Travellers die younger than the rest of us - especially the male ones (average life expectancy of 62 years). And they're six times more likely to kill themselves, so that's good too, right?

And how do you explain the fact that a very small percentage of travellers, stayed in education past primary level, before this funding was cut?
Why don't they pay for private tuition for the kids, intead of buying new transit vans and landcruisers every year?
As regards morbidity rates amongst travellers, well that's self inflicted to be honest. If i make a conscious decision to lead a particular lifestyle, which is not conducive to living a long life, i only have myself to blame.

RayM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

What about support for children with dyslexia who no longer get resource hours at all???? But please, don't let facts get in your way.

Whataboutery aside, do you dispute the accuracy of that 86% figure? It's a good thing though, isn't it? Because we hate them and we don't want them to get anything. Let's make sure that they remain marginalised, just like their parents. Because that's been a great success.

AlekSmart wrote: »

For at least three decades the main negative influences on Traveller Health and Education have come from within the Traveller Community.

They come from within the Traveller Community... and they stem from a lack of education. It's a vicious circle, isn't it? And failing to provide necessary educational support to Traveller children probably isn't going to help. Nor is collectively blaming all Travellers for their plight.

whupdedo

I've often wondered was there or will there ever be a knacker born that's worthy of sharing the same air we breathe , I mean 1 that will honestly contribute something of worth to society, such as going into medicine, or becoming a nurse or a child care worker or even a good hard job like a builders labourer , I seriously doubt it , they're bred badly like the horses they neglect

I'll await the vitriol of the bleeding hearts but I couldn't give a **** , I'd use the whole lot of them as cannon fodder if world war 1 happened all over again tomorrow

Mod: User Banned

RayM

To Elland Back wrote: »

This thread will be closed soon and for one reason only. Joe public is not allowed express his justified concerns for fear of having the weight of legislation being brought to bear against him. The same legislation that certain sectors selectively choose to ignore or use to their satisfaction.

This cowering to the PC brigade will bite us in the ass big time very soon

If the thread gets locked, it won't be because of the imaginary 'PC brigade' - It'll be because of racist idiots.

For example:

whupdedo wrote: »

I've often wondered was there or will there ever be a knacker born that's worthy of sharing the same air we breathe , I mean 1 that will honestly contribute something of worth to society, such as going into medicine, or becoming a nurse or a child care worker or even a good hard job like a builders labourer , I seriously doubt it , their bred badly like the horses they neglect

I'll await the vitriol of the bleeding hearts but I couldn't give a **** , I'd use the whole lot of them as cannon fodder if world war 1 happened all over again tomorrow

LadyFenghuang

whupdedo wrote: »

I've often wondered was there or will there ever be a knacker born that's worthy of sharing the same air we breathe , I mean 1 that will honestly contribute something of worth to society, such as going into medicine, or becoming a nurse or a child care worker or even a good hard job like a builders labourer , I seriously doubt it , their bred badly like the horses they neglect

I'll await the vitriol of the bleeding hearts but I couldn't give a **** , I'd use the whole lot of them as cannon fodder if world war 1 happened all over again tomorrow

You are the type to be morose in the mornings. Hitler destroyed the lives of millions. Then he took his own life.

You are morose because ....guess what ...you are morose. Even with an agenda....even posting for no reason ..you are getting your teeth into that post. It has little to do with travelers that post. That post ..is all you...it's all about you.

Sheldons Brain

RayM wrote: »

They come from within the Traveller Community... and they stem from a lack of education. It's a vicious circle, isn't it?

Because you have education does not mean that you should not want education for your children. My father and my aunts were brought up in poor circumstances and hadn't any opportunity beyond the legal minimum of education, but they encouraged their children who have a range of degrees and qualifications. Encouragement is free.

As to this case, the rest of the population who pay their way are paying for this. There is a housing crisis, it is scandalous that people are refusing to avail of housing provided with their needs in mind.