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Traveller families refusing to move to purpose built houses

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135

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    #62
    Nib
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭Nib


    Leave the good for nothing parasites where they are and sell the houses to people in need at a reasonable rate, and I don't mean work shy single Mothers, people with families who are on a low wage.


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    #63
    LadyFenghuang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭LadyFenghuang


    Nib wrote: »
    Leave the good for nothing parasites where they are and sell the houses to people in need at a reasonable rate, and I don't mean work shy single Mothers, people with families who are on a low wage.

    Can't we share?


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    #64
    Taxburden carrier
    Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Taxburden carrier


    "Pets" might insinuate they were actually cared for


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    #65
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    On the one hand I can kinda see where the travellers are coming from. I wouldn't be too happy about giving up my home to provide space for a company even if you gave me a nice new home down the road. I like my home. I wonder how much consultation there was with the travellers on this, were they objecting to this from the start or is this just a last minute money grabbing tactic. I wonder how much of that money to pay for the new houses we got from Apple.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Taxburden carrier wrote: »
    "Pets" might insinuate they were actually cared for
    So if they don't care, why do the families want assurances about facilities for horses?

    I mean, this new accommodation looks good to me. If I were living in a rundown caravan site with my kids, I'd love to move in. But some families won't move until their horses are looked after, i.e. putting their horses first.

    And some genius concludes that these families don't care for their horses?


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    #67
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Do you know the 16 families in question?

    Toddle off to the nearest police station and let them know if you have information that any of the 16 families in question have mistreated their horses & ponies in these ways.

    Ah but you're generalizing about an entire group of people. I know that.

    In fairness the generalization you speak of is rather well supported by many decades of experiences throughout the State in addition to the more recent ability to witness the action via Social Media.

    I would also ask if this "Generalization" thing can occasionally work both ways.
    Perhaps the biggest scandal here is that 300k security bill, which is presumably aa result of hostility to the new traveller site from non-travellers.

    Presumably.....;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #68
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Do you know the 16 families in question?

    Toddle off to the nearest police station and let them know if you have information that any of the 16 families in question have mistreated their horses & ponies in these ways.

    Ah but you're generalizing about an entire group of people. I know that.

    So did you.
    Perhaps the biggest scandal here is that 300k security bill, which is presumably aa result of hostility to the new traveller site from non-travellers.

    Are you taking the piss here? I know they are known as the rebels but even people from Cork wouldn't have the balls to mess with a traveller site.


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    #69
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    eviltwin wrote: »
    On the one hand I can kinda see where the travellers are coming from. I wouldn't be too happy about giving up my home to provide space for a company even if you gave me a nice new home down the road. I like my home. I wonder how much consultation there was with the travellers on this, were they objecting to this from the start or is this just a last minute money grabbing tactic. I wonder how much of that money to pay for the new houses we got from Apple.

    The travellers are free to live where they like - once they pay for the house themselves.


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    #70
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,259 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    anncoates wrote: »
    Don't they cause regular disturbances for free? Why do they want to get paid for it?

    Do they pay themselves disturbance money every time they up sticks and move?!?


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    #71
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    LadyFenghuang wrote: »

    I appreciate that. However it is worth considering apart from this story for a moment travelers are a very hard persecuted group. From Roma to Irish travelers.
    .

    Why do you think that is? Do you think people just dislike them for absolutely no reason and because they're from a different culture to us? No it's because the biggest majority of them are criminals who steal and rob at every opportunity. They break the law like its a natural entitlement for them. They are some of the richest people in society with huge amounts of unreckonable disposable income.

    Now to finish I want to add that I do know travellers who are ordinary decent people who never bother or harm anyone but unfortunately that category of traveller are very few and far between.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LadyFenghuang wrote: »
    They don't have the resources or lifestyle to look after horses to the standard that modern stables and equestrianism now have made the norm. That's the truth.
    But that's not indicative of cruelty.

    In recent years , it has become popular in some quarters to return to a simpler model of horsemanship: suddenly as horse-people we seem to have realised that wintering-out our animals without rugs is nothing to be afraid of; horses have been doing it for millenia.

    Personally, I see indoor stabling as an unfortunate necessity, to be avoided where possible. I think there is a great deal to be admired in the natural horsemanship I have personally witnessed amongst travellers, some of whom have a lot more in common with experienced yardowners and the old-fashioned trainers (in terms of their practical approach) than the more recent type of owner, the Celtic-Tiger-era, one-horse owner who keeps their only animal in livery, and is too easily alarmed at minor hazards like frost and rainfall.
    MathDebater wrote: »
    Are you taking the piss here? I know they are known as the rebels but even people from Cork wouldn't have the balls to mess with a traveller site.
    There have been numerous attacks on traveller housing in the past few years; it tends to happen before the travellers move in

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/two-houses-burned-in-attack-on-traveller-complex-1.1314489

    I thought it was obvious that the security was intended to protect the property from the settled community. I don't think the travellers are about to burn down the development that many of them are already willing to enter. The remaining travellers don't seem to be opposed to the development, they are simply looking for extra provisions.


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    #73
    LadyFenghuang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭LadyFenghuang


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Why do you think that is? Do you think people just dislike them for absolutely no reason and because they're from a different culture to us? No it's because the biggest majority of them are criminals who steal and rob at every opportunity. They break the law like its a natural entitlement for them. They are some of the richest people in society with huge amounts of unreckonable disposable income.

    Now to finish I want to add that I do know travellers who are ordinary decent people who never bother or harm anyone but unfortunately that category of traveller are very few and far between.
    The innocent should not be made to suffer because of the guilty. No matter what the ratio. And I have no idea of what it really is. We should not punish the good because of the bad otherwise what is the point of punishments? They cease to be punishments then.

    Yes there is an element that is criminal. And unfortunately the guards don't seem too pushed about them.

    If you punish everyone what to you do to the ACTUAL bad guys?


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    #74
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    You can certainly change your ethnic identity in my opinion. Yes.

    Well? Why are you not on a campsite yet? Didn't you want to sign-up?
    From Exchange House Ireland, who provide services to the traveller community.
    Can one become a Traveller?
    No, one can not become a Traveller; one has to be born into the community.
    So no you can't just become a traveller.
    I also remember seeing a documentary, and a traveller said that your grandmother has to be a traveller for you to be considered one.


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    #75
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    pickarooney wrote: »
    How many of youse would like to be told "feck off out of your house, Apple needs the space, we've built you a new space with a gym because you all love boxing. By the way, your pets can't come"

    They don't own the house or the land they're currently occupying. Bit of a difference.


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    #76
    cloud493
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    Whats disturbance money?


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    #77
    LadyFenghuang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭LadyFenghuang


    cloud493 wrote: »
    Whats disturbance money?

    I have never heard of that phrase either?


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    #78
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    Surely that's because of settled people who don't want the site located there.

    There have been a number of well-publicised instances of attacks on properties intended for traveller accommodation by members of the settled community.

    Perhaps the biggest scandal here is that 300k security bill, which is presumably aa result of hostility to the new traveller site from non-travellers.

    Well, unless Mr. Stokes, father of 9 and owner of 4 horses is a hostile non-traveller, I think you are mistaken:
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/man-threatens-to-destroy-new-euro5m-traveller-facility-330451.html?utm_source=link&utm_medium=click&utm_campaign=recirc

    How many concessions need to be made, how much tax-payers money needs to be pumped into this "ethnic minority" before someone in government says enough is enough? €300k on security because some headcase threatens to destroy a €5m development that other travellers are refusing to move into? Finest example of political correctness gone mad right there.

    What about the discrimination against those who pumped taxes into the State buying houses privately with hard-earned, heavily taxed incomes? Who had to sit in unfinished estates in houses that were poorly finished, while other groups who contribute nothing to society had houses finished to perfect standards? Those who pay water charges, property tax and every other tax under the sun only to see it pissed away on security for brand new developments like this one? Some pretty bad discrimination right there, but hey, it's ok, because those hard working families don't have a convenient little ethnic minority label to hide behind.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cloud493 wrote: »
    Whats disturbance money?
    LadyFenghuang wrote: »
    I have never heard of that phrase either?

    I've never heard of it outside the work place. Some people can be compensated if they have to transfer to the likes of a new building in a company. Happened in a place I worked in. About 40 senior members of staff were given a few grand to move to another building 100 yards down the road in the same business park for a few years. It was a joke where I worked and a bigger joke in this situation


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    #80
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    Stereotypes, there must be more to life than stereotypes.


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If they gave these homes to homeless people, then how much would that reduce the homeless rate in Cork? People are saying they're purpose-built for travellers - what does this mean exactly? Do travellers have special housing conditions?


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    #82
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    The poor guys, I feel for them. How about instead of "disturbance money", we allow them to claim a decent rebate from their paid income tax from the past few years?


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    #83
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If they gave these homes to homeless people, then how much would that reduce the homeless rate in Cork? People are saying they're purpose-built for travellers - what does this mean exactly? Do travellers have special housing conditions?

    Traveller specific accommodation is built a different spec than normal social housing, it's built for specific families usually and won't be offered as housing to the settled community


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    #84
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    I want purpose built boards.ie homes for every member of After Hours!!!!


    Dont pay your taxes and claim everything.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Traveller specific accommodation is built a different spec than normal social housing, it's built for specific families usually and won't be offered as housing to the settled community

    So if they keep refusing, hand it over to somebody that will actually use it. Problem solved. Easy.


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    #86
    Dick phelan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Why don't they pay for their own fuc kin horses, seriously it astounds me that some people think we should pay for other people's luxuries like owning a horse, Travelers are complete wasters who do nothing for anyone and expect everything to be handed to them. A large section of them are criminals and cause nothing but problems for the decent people in society, i'll probably get labelled a racist by some left wing uber liberal arsehole funny how those who defend these scum are never the ones who are unfortunate enough to live near them, in my entire life i have never once had a positive experience with travellers and that is literally the only minority group in the country i can say that about. It's not racist to point out that someones way of life simply is not acceptable in the world today and it's not up to the hard working people to pay for others "culture"


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    #87
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Traveller specific accommodation is built a different spec than normal social housing, it's built for specific families usually and won't be offered as housing to the settled community

    Why though? If the State is to provide accommodation for its citizens, why treat one group differently to another group? Travellers want to be accepted by society, but that works both ways.

    Standard social housing as provided elsewhere should be provided to travellers - no special treatment. Special treatment for one group discriminates against others. I have absolutely no problem if people want to keep horses etc., but they do that at their own expense and using private facilities like everyone else has to, and within the law like everyone else has to.


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    #88
    Bowlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    Dick phelan wrote: »
    , i'll probably get labelled a racist by some left wing uber liberal arsehole

    They are not a race they are an ethnic group.


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    #89
    Axel Lamp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Axel Lamp


    They'll only wreck the houses anyway. Scumbags.


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    #90
    LadyFenghuang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭LadyFenghuang


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Standard social housing as provided elsewhere should be provided to travellers - no special treatment.

    It's generally not though. And in fact most of the issues are settled people not wanting them living near them.

    Would you consent to these houses being built near where you live?

    THAT is a huge problem. Settled people don't want travelers in their neighborhoods. Not ever the decent ones. Market value suffers and the fact that it does should speak for how we look at them.


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    #91
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Why though? If the State is to provide accommodation for its citizens, why treat one group differently to another group? Travellers want to be accepted by society, but that works both ways.

    Standard social housing as provided elsewhere should be provided to travellers - no special treatment. Special treatment for one group discriminates against others. I have absolutely no problem if people want to keep horses etc., but they do that at their own expense and using private facilities like everyone else has to, and within the law like everyone else has to.

    They have special needs apparently :rolleyes:


This discussion has been closed.
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