Traveller families refusing to move to purpose built houses

AlekSmart

RayM wrote: »

Whataboutery aside, do you dispute the accuracy of that 86% figure? It's a good thing though, isn't it? Because we hate them and we don't want them to get anything. Let's make sure that they remain marginalised, just like their parents. Because that's been a great success.

They come from within the Traveller Community... and they stem from a lack of education. It's a vicious circle, isn't it? And failing to provide necessary educational support to Traveller children probably isn't going to help. Nor is collectively blaming all Travellers for their plight.

I'm afraid I would disagree on this.

Significant numbers of young Travellers (Male,I would concede) have already carved out a profitable niche in I.T. based crime,whether internet based or using computer based elements to enable their criminal enterprises.

Motor Vehicle Theft.
The by-passing of security systems,both on Commercial Vehicles and on residential/commercial premises.

This significant and confident group of young traveller men,most certainly are NOT trapped in any more of a "Vicious Circle" than any similarly educated settled person.

I most certainly not placing any "Collective Blame" on Travellers here,but neither am I suggesting a NO Blame approach which appears to be the only alternative which will be considered.

Coming out with stuff such as this.....

Because we hate them and we don't want them to get anything. Let's make sure that they remain marginalised,

,is to me far worse than any mere "Whataboutery" so far in evidence on this thread.

Whosthis

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm afraid I would disagree on this.

Significant numbers of young Travellers (Male,I would concede) have already carved out a profitable niche in I.T. based crime,whether internet based or using computer based elements to enable their criminal enterprises.

Motor Vehicle Theft.
The by-passing of security systems,both on Commercial Vehicles and on residential/commercial premises.

This significant and confident group of young traveller men,most certainly are NOT trapped in any more of a "Vicious Circle" than any similarly educated settled person.

I most certainly not placing any "Collective Blame" on Travellers here,but neither am I suggesting a NO Blame approach which appears to be the only alternative which will be considered.

Coming out with stuff such as this.....,is to me far worse than any mere "Whataboutery" so far in evidence on this thread.

Have you got proof of this significant number of travellers committing cyber crimes? A link to your statistics would be nice.

Pumpkinseeds

RayM wrote: »

Whataboutery aside, do you dispute the accuracy of that 86% figure? It's a good thing though, isn't it? Because we hate them and we don't want them to get anything. Let's make sure that they remain marginalised, just like their parents. Because that's been a great success.



They come from within the Traveller Community... and they stem from a lack of education. It's a vicious circle, isn't it? And failing to provide necessary educational support to Traveller children probably isn't going to help. Nor is collectively blaming all Travellers for their plight.

What people hate about travellers is the attitude and behaviour. If I met a decent member of the travelling community I'd have no issues whatsoever with them. There's been a halting site in our town for a long time and I've seen a lot of dispicable behaviour. People are angry that 5 million has been spent on a purpose built site for 16 families, only 7 of whom have signed up to be rehoused, when many many people are waiting for years to be housed and many of them never will be rehoused.

Factor in the 300 thousand that had to be spend protecting the workers on the new site. If this were a case involving settled people refusing to move to new purpose built accomodation feelings would still be the same.

Letree

5 million divided by 16 = 312,000 per family. And they are still not grateful.

whupdedo

RayM wrote: »

If the thread gets locked, it won't be because of the imaginary 'PC brigade' - It'll be because of racist idiots.

For example:

Genuine question, are they actually classed as a seperate race ?? Or is it themselves that want to be treated differently , while all the while wanting to be treated the same

michael999999

**** me. Travellers that won't go 200 yards!

Whosthis

whupdedo wrote: »

Genuine question, are they actually classed as a seperate race ?? Or is it themselves that want to be treated differently , while all the while wanting to be treated the same

Not a different race but an ethnic minority, however that status has no legal recognition in Ireland.

Hans Bricks

How anyone who actually pays taxes in this country can defend Traveller entitlement, baffles me.

RayM wrote: »

State spending on Traveller education has been cut by 86% since 2008. But that's good, isn't it? Because we hate them.

Surprised much ? They could always avail of the same educational funding allocated to mainstream public education ? I seem to remember all but a couple of the travellers in my school dropping out without even a junior cert before that 2008 86% cut in funding. Throwing money at the most self entitled assholes who don't even want education. The poor mites.

Whosthis wrote: »

Have you got proof of this significant number of travellers committing cyber crimes? A link to your statistics would be nice.

D-Dosh attackshh wit d compootersshh

RayM

whupdedo wrote: »

Genuine question, are they actually classed as a seperate race ?? Or is it themselves that want to be treated differently , while all the while wanting to be treated the same

Not yet (although in the UK, they are). Despite the fact that they fulfil the essential characteristics (as set out by the UN) of a distinct ethnic group, there has been very little political appetite to class them as one. Although the current Minister of State for Equality has promised to do something about it...

Bongalongherb

Whosthis wrote: »

Not a different race but an ethnic minority, however that status has no legal recognition in Ireland.

Are you for real ? An ethnic minority ? They are Irish citizens, so how the hell could they be an Ethnic minority, get your facts straight.

Travellers are basically a culture within a culture.

The place I live in is not the best, so if possible can I move in with the other 7 travellers and have my own House obviously with a beautiful garden ?. I'd jump on it like a generous military man onto a grenade.

Whosthis

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Are you for real ? An ethnic minority ? They are Irish citizens, so how the hell could they be and Ethnic minority, get your facts straight.

Travellers are basically a culture within a culture.

Eh? If this was on Facebook I'd copy it and paste it to the dumb Facebook status thread.

Bongalongherb

Whosthis wrote: »

Eh? If this was on Facebook I'd copy it and paste it to the dumb Facebook status thread.

Ethnic minority...

A group of people of a particular race or nationality living in a country or area where most people are from a different race or nationality

Who's dumb now ?

Bongalongherb

Irish travellers are full Irish citizens, they are not a different race or Nationality, they are Irish just like me and you but they travel.

Jesus christ, if you do not know the basic difference I give up.

Whosthis

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Ethnic minority...

A group of people of a particular race or nationality living in a country or area where most people are from a different race or nationality

Who's dumb now ?

Incorrect. Read this http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/47/a47r135.htm

RayM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Ethnic minority...

A group of people of a particular race or nationality living in a country or area where most people are from a different race or nationality

Ethnic minority...

A group within a community which has different national or cultural traditions from the main population.

Source: Oxford English Dictionary.

Bongalongherb wrote:

Who's dumb now ?

Uh dunno lol

Bongalongherb

RayM wrote: »

Ethnic minority...

A group within a community which has different national or cultural traditions from the main population.

Source: Oxford English Dictionary.



Uh dunno lol

That's absolute rubbish. Cambridge has a completely different out-look on this garbage. I'll say it again, Travellers are not an ethnic minority, they sure as hell want everything for nothing though.

Cold War Kid

Hans Bricks wrote: »

They could always avail of the same educational funding allocated to mainstream public education ? I seem to remember all but a couple of the travellers in my school dropping out without even a junior cert before that 2008 86% cut in funding. Throwing money at the most self entitled assholes who don't even want education. The poor mites.

They don't pick up that from the wind though. In fairness, they're only 14/15. I know I didn't recognise the value of education at that age, however I had no choice but to go to school.
I am certainly not trying to deflect the responsibilities of the traveller community itself (broadly speaking of course - there are plenty of individual travellers not taking the piss) and some folks do, which I cannot understand the point of - it won't help travellers one bit. The above is an example of responsibility being at parental, and beyond, level. At the same time, I have no doubt there are traveller kids who drop out of school due to being treated badly by other kids due to being travellers.
I'd draw a line at blaming children for their parents' behaviour and blaming them for the culture they were born into.

smurgen

I actually know the families involved in this and know the exact details of the situation.my father is into horses and bought equipment from one of the older men involved a few years back and would have talked to him regularly enough.how anyone could defend the situation is beyond me . they played apple for a blinder and now they're playing the council for a blinder too.
This particular set of travellers are highly opportunistic and I can link in court cases from the examiner to show this if ye want.I also had the job of helping my friend clear them from a pub on barrack street after a child's communion for a friend a few years back.
Call me a bigot if you want but I have numerous first hand experience with these people.it boils my ****ing blood to see them getting money for this.cut their funding asap.they are fully grown men and they aren't shy of a days work when it suits them.

The Diabolical Monocle

hju6 wrote: »

Outrageous that they forgot to build the stables and equestrian center, :pac::pac::pac:

Sir -

The billiards tables too were apparently second rate.
As for the mini-bar, the rum and shandy offerings were quite frankly derisory.

Good day.

RayM

Bongalongherb wrote: »

That's absolute rubbish. Cambridge has a completely different out-look on this garbage. I'll say it again, Travellers are not an ethnic minority, they sure as hell want everything for nothing though.

Yes, the Oxford English Dictionary - Hundreds of years of lexicographic excellence... the definitive and most widely accepted record and authority on the evolution of the English language - is a load of absolute rubbish. Because someone on the internet called... 'Bongalongherb' says so.

Hans Bricks

Cold War Kid wrote: »

They don't pick up that from the wind though. In fairness, they're only 14/15. I know I didn't recognise the value of education at that age, however I had no choice but to go to school.
I am certainly not trying to deflect the responsibilities of the traveller community itself (broadly speaking of course - there are plenty of individual travellers not taking the piss) and some folks do, which I cannot understand the point of - it won't help travellers one bit. The above is an example of responsibility being at parental, and beyond, level. At the same time, I have no doubt there are traveller kids who drop out of school due to being treated badly by other kids due to being travellers.
I'd draw a line at blaming children for their parents' behaviour and blaming them for the culture they were born into.

The public facilities are there for them though. Just like everyone else. It's an internal disfunctionality only Travellers themselves can sort out. There was one traveller lad we were friendly with in school who was quite bright & respectful who of course didn't finish school and I often wonder what he's up to these days.

They recently demolished a small halting site on the Belgard road in Tallaght just last week due to the sheer neglect and squalor it turned into. Like a war torn Bosnian village. I just thought to myself ... This is what we get in return for providing public assistance and special accommodation ?

Bongalongherb

Look, I know a few travellers from Dublin and the one's I know are amazing people, very nice folk just like a traveller woman called Philomena from Dublin, now in the U.S, great intelligent guitar player and singer. These travelling folk I know are real decent people and would have jumped at this amazing opportunity in relation to this €5 million housing complex without doubt.

Folk here quoting me saying that Irish Travellers are an ethnic minority is just completely wrong. I have respect for a lot of Travellers but I do not have respect for this carry-on from the minority of ass-holes. Talk about being given a chance to move into a brand new beautiful abode and to then refuse it, it's just taking the piss and should be scrapped for the folk refusing. The seven that are moving in, well, what can I say... Fair play to you.

Bongalongherb

RayM wrote: »

Yes, the Oxford English Dictionary - Hundreds of years of lexicographic excellence... the definitive and most widely accepted record and authority on the evolution of the English language - is a load of absolute rubbish. Because someone on the internet called... 'Bongalongherb' says so.

No, it's simply because their published paper is wrong. Have you lost all common sense ? These are Irish folk that have been here all along with us since day one, they are not an ethnic minority. This is Ireland not britain.

rob316

Just ****ing remove them by force tell them this is your new home if ye don't like it hit the road its what ye ****ing love after all.

They are holding up apple creating jobs for people who will ya know pay taxes and contribute to society.

Cold War Kid

Hans Bricks wrote: »

The public facilities are there for them though. Just like everyone else.

I don't disagree. There are supports for travellers - as there should be in any fair society IMO, particularly for their kids. Those who make out that there is virtually a policy of disenfranchisement of travellers are just treating them as victims en masse and that is going to do precisely zero to help them.

Education is key I think - but the problem is that many travellers choose not to avail of it... not that their children are being refused it.

Whosthis

Bongalongherb wrote: »

No, it's simply because their published paper is wrong. Have you lost all common sense ? These are Irish folk that have been here all along with us since day one, they are not an ethnic minority. This is Ireland not britain.

Being an ethnic minority has nothing to do with differing race, nationality or citizenship. You said it yourself earlier, it is a culture within a culture. Travellers are an ethnic minority and your continued posting that they are not will do nothing to change that fact.

c_man

RayM wrote: »

State spending on Traveller education has been cut by 86% since 2008. But that's good, isn't it? Because we hate them.

Ha, I'll take you and your type seriously if I ever heard one of ye actually tackle the main obstacle to traveller education. Hint, it ain't the state or Gardai or 'settled people'. But then calling out the horrible cultural 'norms' within their community around this would be racist right?

G_R

Thread closed for review - may be reopened later

G_R

Thread's staying closed, folks, sorry! People will just end up with cards and/or bans and that's not what we want.

Cheers,
GR