Cars to be banned from key Dublin City Centre streets; priority to walking, buses etc

StreetLight

Carawaystick wrote: »

I was being a little bit tongue in cheek. If the heuston rail line served the city centre, then a lot more commuting traffic would use it and there'd be less demand for busses to bring people down the quays.

Just as a matter of interest, when the rail lines serving the west of the country were originally being built, was Heuston always a terminus, or did passenger trains at the time continue along the Phoenix Park Tunnel towards the city centre?

LXFlyer

StreetLight wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, when the rail lines serving the west of the country were originally being built, was Heuston always a terminus, or did passenger trains at the time continue along the Phoenix Park Tunnel towards the city centre?

Trains to the west originally went from Broadstone.

Trains to the midlands, southwest, and Waterford went from Heuston.

There was never a prolonged regular passenger service through the Phoenix Park tunnel with the exception of a short lived Cork-Belfast service, the boat trains to Dún Laoghaire, and some Sunday only extras in the 1990s that operated to Connolly.

The principal function of the tunnel was for freight trains to access the docks and for stock transfers.

seamus

StreetLight wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, when the rail lines serving the west of the country were originally being built, was Heuston always a terminus, or did passenger trains at the time continue along the Phoenix Park Tunnel towards the city centre?

Recent article here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/an-irishman-s-diary-the-phoenix-park-rail-tunnel-1.2159067

Indicates that it was in scheduled use until 2001 and is still in semi-regular use for passenger traffic. And that they're planning to re-open it for passenger traffic next year.

bk

Very interesting, our fares look very similar to London, so perhaps a good guide that what a flat fare for Dublin Bus might look like.

Geuze wrote: »

Oyster Daily cap = 4.40 stg, or 6.30 euro

Leap Dublin Bus Daily daily cap €6.90

Geuze wrote: »

Weekly cap = 21 stg, or 30 euro

Leap Dublin Bus Weekly cap €27.50

Geuze wrote: »

Oyster = 1.50 stg flat fare, or 2.15 euro approx

I've long predicted that they are moving to a flat fare around €2.05 (give or take 10 cents), so again, very similar to London.

strandroad

bk wrote: »

Very interesting, our fares look very similar to London, so perhaps a good guide that what a flat fare for Dublin Bus might look like.

It is similar, but if you think about what kind of transport network you can use in London....

cgcsb

Carawaystick wrote: »

Well having the main train station up the river from the centre isn't helping anything...

Few cities have mainline rail stations in the centre because their historic core predates railways. They do often have onward metro and tram connections and many have tunnelled the mainline railway under the city

Carawaystick

cgcsb wrote: »

Few cities have mainline rail stations in the centre because their historic core predates railways. They do often have onward metro and tram connections and many have tunnelled the mainline railway under the city

If only there was some underground rail link to connect Heuston to the city centre...

beauf

I doubt using the tunnel would be any quicker than the Luas. Currently the maynooth train is often delayed getting a slot into Connolly.

Vic_08

mhge wrote: »

It is similar, but if you think about what kind of transport network you can use in London....

One predominantly based on Rail where bus journeys are more local.

The average single bus trip in Dublin is significantly longer in distance to the average in London so a fair comparison would be that for the same fare the Dublin passenger is getting more.

bk

Vic_08 wrote: »

One predominantly based on Rail where bus journeys are more local.

The average single bus trip in Dublin is significantly longer in distance to the average in London so a fair comparison would be that for the same fare the Dublin passenger is getting more.

You might think that, but you would be wrong!

Dublin Bus 2014:
57 million km / 960 buses = 59,375 km per bus

London Bus 2014:
504 million km / 8500 buses = 59,294 km per bus

So almost exactly the same.

Also, surprisingly, Dublin actually uses rail more then London (as a percentage of public transport trips, not in total numbers obviously).

The split between bus and london underground is bus 64% to london underground 31% of all public transport trips.

The split in Dublin is bus 61%, rail + luas 39% of public transport trips.

People often overestimate the importance of London Underground and underestimate the importance of London Underground. But London Bus actually carries twice the number of passengers per day as London underground, very similar to the importance (and model split) of Dublin Bus in Dublin.

Obviously London is a much larger city, with a much bigger bus fleet, but taking that into account, London Bus and Dublin Bus are actually very similar and comparable.

Vic_08

bk wrote: »

You might think that, but you would be wrong!

No, not wrong and none of those figures have any relevance.

To be clear; Bus in London is used differently than Dublin, significantly shorter average journey and more local or feeder trips. With rail (Underground, Overground, National Rail TOCs and DLR) accounting for the majority of longer trunk journeys.

This means that for each flat bus fare in Dublin on average the journey taken will be significantly longer.

Spanish Eyes

UPDATE...

I am very pleased to report that the Busgate this evening was fantastic!

I took the bus from opposite Pearse Street Station at about 5.30pm and was dreading the bus turning the corner into Pearse Street itself. OMG, to say there is a difference today is an understatement. About 15 minutes off the journey I reckon.

I wonder did anyone else notice the difference?

Good news has to be reported aswell!

LXFlyer

But nothing has changed about the bus gate. It is exactly the same as it has been.

The hours don't change until next week.

Traffic changes from one day to the next and from hour to hour - it isn't an exact science I'm afraid.

Spanish Eyes

lxflyer wrote: »

But nothing has changed about the bus gate. It is exactly the same as it has been.

The hours don't change until next week.

Traffic changes from one day to the next and from hour to hour - it isn't an exact science I'm afraid.

Yes I know. But I got such a surprise, I just had to report it!

I know it's different for those who travel or drive buses that way every single day.

I'm happy today though!

thomasj

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Change-of-Bus-Stop-on-Routes-25-25a-and-25b-/

so looking like 25/A/B will use Tara Street and Burgh Quay from the 1st September. Theres no other reason for them getting clogged up on westmoreland street when they dont need to be there.

dubscottie

bk wrote: »

Obviously London is a much larger city, with a much bigger bus fleet, but taking that into account, London Bus and Dublin Bus are actually very similar and comparable.

They cant be compared. If you are looking at the whole of London you need to remember that most of the journeys south of the Thames are by bus due to the lack of the tube (London chalk).

The high numbers south of the Thames will balance out the poor usage north of it.

shodge

City centre Dublin is a absolute disgrace, we all knew it was going to be messy while the LUAS work is underway, but it appears that no one in charge has come up with any type of plan to mitigate traffic problems.
What have the NTA being doing? They are in charge of the route a bus takes, why no diversions around the chaos that is the LUAS construction?
What should take 5 minutes can now take up to 30 minutes, heads should roll over that.

beauf

I dunno if you are talking about cars or buses.

LXFlyer

shodge wrote: »

City centre Dublin is a absolute disgrace, we all knew it was going to be messy while the LUAS work is underway, but it appears that no one in charge has come up with any type of plan to mitigate traffic problems.
What have the NTA being doing? They are in charge of the route a bus takes, why no diversions around the chaos that is the LUAS construction?
What should take 5 minutes can now take up to 30 minutes, heads should roll over that.

Eh, buses are all on diversion, either via Camden Street or Westland Row.


But there's a limit to how far away you can divert them - people still need to go to/from the city centre.

pclive

shodge wrote: »

City centre Dublin is a absolute disgrace, we all knew it was going to be messy while the LUAS work is underway, but it appears that no one in charge has come up with any type of plan to mitigate traffic problems.
What have the NTA being doing? They are in charge of the route a bus takes, why no diversions around the chaos that is the LUAS construction?
What should take 5 minutes can now take up to 30 minutes, heads should roll over that.

The College Green bus corridor has been extended 7AM to 7PM Mon - Fri

cgcsb

shodge wrote: »

City centre Dublin is a absolute disgrace, we all knew it was going to be messy while the LUAS work is underway, but it appears that no one in charge has come up with any type of plan to mitigate traffic problems.
What have the NTA being doing? They are in charge of the route a bus takes, why no diversions around the chaos that is the LUAS construction?
What should take 5 minutes can now take up to 30 minutes, heads should roll over that.

Buses have been diverted and bus gate is now extended to 12 hours. What else would you do?

shodge

cgcsb wrote: »

Buses have been diverted and bus gate is now extended to 12 hours. What else would you do?

Is is necessary that all buses coming down Pearce street go on straight to Westmoreland street, can some not use tara street?
Must every bus going south use D'olier street?
The NTA have know for months this chaos was on the cards, what has been done to alleviate this gridlock?

shodge

pclive wrote: »

The College Green bus corridor has been extended 7AM to 7PM Mon - Fri

We will all be happy to know that when we are at a standstill in traffic after 7pm on a friday and saturday night. Total gridlock from the north side as far as kildare street/christchurch.

LXFlyer

shodge wrote: »

Is is necessary that all buses coming down Pearce street go on straight to Westmoreland street, can some not use tara street?
Must every bus going south use D'olier street?
The NTA have know for months this chaos was on the cards, what has been done to alleviate this gridlock?

Some buses are diverting via Tara Street and Burgh Quay and at least three routes are using Hawkins Street rather than D'Olier Street, but remember that route is going to be a building site too.

There are limited options here - I think you've got to realise that.

The buses still need to serve the city centre.

shodge

lxflyer wrote: »

Some buses are diverting via Tara Street and Burgh Quay and at least three routes are using Hawkins Street rather than D'Olier Street, but remember that route is going to be a building site too.

There are limited options here - I think you've got to realise that.

The buses still need to serve the city centre.

The buses that use Tara street are doing so unofficially, its a ad hoc decision made by the driver or inspector when the official route is at a complete standstill.
Hawkins street and then straight into the gridlock along the college wall, thats great planning.
What are the people in charge doing? Have they no different plans they could try and see if it works better, because at the moment its chaos.

LXFlyer

shodge wrote: »

The buses that use Tara street are doing so unofficially, its a ad hoc decision made by the driver or inspector when the official route is at a complete standstill.
Hawkins street and then straight into the gridlock along the college wall, thats great planning.
What are the people in charge doing? Have they no different plans they could try and see if it works better, because at the moment its chaos.

You have yet to suggest any viable alternative route that would still retain a service to/from the city centre, which is what is needed.

You are not going to build a tram route through the heart of the city centre without causing problems. It's kind of inevitable.

Are we to take it from your posts that you are an aggrieved bus driver?

cdebru

pclive wrote: »

The College Green bus corridor has been extended 7AM to 7PM Mon - Fri

Should have been done at least 3 weeks ago

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

Should have been done at least 3 weeks ago

I certainly wouldn't disagree with this, and if anything should be the same at weekends too.

monument

I cycled on College Green about 2-3 weeks ago on a Saturday -- it was madness.

It does not benefit 90-99% of people to allow a free-for-all at weekends.

cdebru

In fairness the whole college green area has been a disaster for the last month or so, the bus gate should have been extended before now and preferably for longer than 7pm. A look at what is closed and why would be a good place to start, some of it is closed off for weeks before any work starts there, and apparently just used to provide parking for cars and vans belonging to those working on the Luas, allowing traffic chaos so someone can park right beside where they work is ridiculous.
Also a more comprehensive plan regarding parking and clearways, and enforcement of both, timed deliveries, private coach parking, and DB parking etc in the whole area affected is essential but nothing seems to have been done.