Cars to be banned from key Dublin City Centre streets; priority to walking, buses etc

dubscottie

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

And THIS SCENE BELOW makes me so mad too. Are they also banned from Busgate like ordinary mortals I wonder? The amount of road space taken up on a critical street is nothing short of ahem... criminal!

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3454669,-6.2559377,3a,75y,281.84h,95.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syrpgXiFB4-Q1wNmQDD-WPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

:rolleyes: Really?? You have not though about why Garda want to park there.. A car park 20 mins away.. Hmm

But wait.. Give them push bikes.. That is the solution..:rolleyes:

buffalo

beauf wrote: »

There's loads of empty land not 20 mins walk towards the docks. Why they can't use that instead of parking on a major traffic artery I have no idea.

Major traffic artery? It's a regional road, with the only through traffic being PSVs, motorcycles and cycles.

pclive

Was on Suffolk Street last week around the area where the Molly Malone statue is in temporary residence and I have to say the whole area has been transformed, no buses, no cars. Such a nice area to be in now.

This is what this plan is about transforming the city and making it a nice place to be

beauf

Lol. Close off a road then say look no ones using it. While completely ignoring gridlock 10 feet away.

Maybe some one can enlighten us what official business a car parked on the inside of other cars double and even triple parked is on.

There must be a better use than parking such a central location can be used for to better facilitate public transport.

schemingbohemia

beauf wrote: »

Lol. Close off a road then say look no ones using it. While completely ignoring gridlock 10 feet away.

Maybe some one can enlighten us what official business a car parked on the inside of other cars double and even triple parked is on.

There must be a better use than parking such a central location can be used for to better facilitate public transport.

It is being used for public transport, moving the Garda cars won't help that.

beauf

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It is being used for public transport, moving the Garda cars won't help that.

They've added a second bus lane but not cycle lane on Pearse Street.

And you think the best use of this bit of space is parking?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3452286,-6.255143,3a,75y,295.09h,73.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1se5X1nWO2sTT5jamUxtQf-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

http://irishcycle.com/2015/03/18/double-bus-lane-on-pearse-street-stirs-strong-mixed-cycling-opinion/

The parking at this station has been a joke for decades.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail1981021800021?opendocument

hmmm

pclive wrote: »

Was on Suffolk Street last week around the area where the Molly Malone statue is in temporary residence and I have to say the whole area has been transformed, no buses, no cars. Such a nice area to be in now.

This is what this plan is about transforming the city and making it a nice place to be

It's like when sections of the Phoenix park were closed to traffic in recent years, it's only when you see the difference it makes to the overall ambience of the place that you realise how much benefit pedestrianisation will bring. Strolling up the middle of Suffolk street I started to see shops & restaurants that I've never even noticed before, as usually you're too busy fighting for space on the pavement and trying not to get pushed out in front of a bus.

beauf

IMO the number of people using the park (recreationally) fell dramatically when the main road was closed. Suited me. But it was noticeably quieter. Likewise at the weekend when out for walks the closed section has noticeably less people using it (recreationally). It actually pushed a lot of traffic into traditionally places like the Furry Glen, making them a lot more unpleasant.

If the objective is to have a larger contiguous area (as in the city centre). Why not close the main road permanently and upgrade the ring road in the park to facilitate better access and easier parking.

cgcsb

pclive wrote: »

Was on Suffolk Street last week around the area where the Molly Malone statue is in temporary residence and I have to say the whole area has been transformed, no buses, no cars. Such a nice area to be in now.

This is what this plan is about transforming the city and making it a nice place to be

I would definitely like to see molly stay in that location. On Grafton St it cause several Spanish armada blockades.

Icepick

beauf wrote: »

Do you think the clothes are funny or something.

only some
But I was talking about the CEO.

Dyr

dubscottie wrote: »

:rolleyes: Really?? You have not though about why Garda want to park there.. A car park 20 mins away.. Hmm

But wait.. Give them push bikes.. That is the solution..:rolleyes:

Enlighten us so

MGWR

hmmm wrote: »

It's like when sections of the Phoenix park were closed to traffic in recent years, it's only when you see the difference it makes to the overall ambience of the place that you realise how much benefit pedestrianisation will bring. Strolling up the middle of Suffolk street I started to see shops & restaurants that I've never even noticed before, as usually you're too busy fighting for space on the pavement and trying not to get pushed out in front of a bus.

Meanwhile elsewhere in the city, the traffic is worse than ever. And those shops and restaurants won't get the business they think they will get, because the tourists won't be able to get to them due to the increased traffic bottlenecks—and because the buses don't go there anymore. The Luas will be an overcrowded disaster too.

It's like George Carlin said: Left-wing environmentalists just want "a nice place to live", for them alone. Imagine this kind of thinking being prevalent in the 1990s? The Cork Street extension would never have been built, New Street South to Clanbrassil Street would not have been widened, and the traffic in the Coombe would have been immobilised because some enviro wanted Lord Edward Street closed to traffic in order to "pedestrianise" the locales surrounding Dublin Castle or suchlike.

monument

MGWR wrote: »

Meanwhile elsewhere in the city, the traffic is worse than ever. And those shops and restaurants won't get the business they think they will get, because the tourists won't be able to get to them due to the increased traffic bottlenecks—and because the buses don't go there anymore. The Luas will be an overcrowded disaster too.

Yes, traffic is worse than ever -- it's short term pain for long-term gain with Luas. The buses already don't go there.

According to the car parking association, tourists generally don't tend to drive into city centres, but I'd say that even the ones who do, don't expect access to College Green etc with their cars. And there's already no car access to the street in question.

MGWR wrote: »

It's like George Carlin said: Left-wing environmentalists just want "a nice place to live", for them alone.

It's about more than just a nice place to live, it's about attractive places for workers, shoppers, tourists, visitors and investors. Just like Amsterdam, Copenhagen etc.

And it's not just left-wingers who are up to "this kind of thinking" -- unless you think the current London mayor, the last NYC mayor and our current transport minister are all left-wing? Maybe you do?

MGWR wrote: »

Imagine this kind of thinking being prevalent in the 1990s?

It was in Amsterdam, Copenhagen and many other cities across Europe -- the result was not the doom you're predicting. And in both Amsterdam and Copenhagen car restriction came before building metro lines.

bk

MGWR wrote: »

Meanwhile elsewhere in the city, the traffic is worse than ever. And those shops and restaurants won't get the business they think they will get, because the tourists won't be able to get to them due to the increased traffic bottlenecks—and because the buses don't go there anymore. The Luas will be an overcrowded disaster too.

Yeah, right :rolleyes: People have been saying that Luas has been a disaster since it was first imagined and the DART too. And every time the doubters have been proven VERY VERY wrong.

cgcsb

'tis a daft tourist who arrives in Dublin Airport and decides s/he wants to get around the city in a rent a car. If you were heading down the country maybe.

rp

MGWR wrote: »

It's like George Carlin said: Left-wing environmentalists just want "a nice place to live",

The point Carlin was making was that 'they' (left-wing environmentalists) don't really care about saving the planet, they just want humans to continue to be able to live on it.
Brilliant delivery, he really wrong-footed the whole audience and reversed it with that one line. What a guy!

hmmm

MGWR wrote: »

Meanwhile elsewhere in the city, the traffic is worse than ever. And those shops and restaurants won't get the business they think they will get, because the tourists won't be able to get to them due to the increased traffic bottlenecks—and because the buses don't go there anymore. The Luas will be an overcrowded disaster too.

The LUAS is a super public transport system. Clean, easy to get on-board, space to put luggage/shopping, reliable. It's everything the bus is not and its huge success with the previously car-driving middle classes is a testament to that.

But I agree with you that simply saying "we're banning cars, get a bus if you want to come into town" will not work. You have to make public transport attractive to people if you want them to swap the comfort of their car, otherwise they'll prefer to drive to a shopping centre off the M50.

Carawaystick

Where are the luggage racks on the trams?

beauf

hmmm wrote: »

....You have to make public transport attractive to people if you want them to swap the comfort of their car, otherwise they'll prefer to drive to a shopping centre off the M50.

Even without any ban, now and the traffic is light enough at the weekend. I would still choose to drive to the closest shop. A ban would make no difference to that for a lot of people.

People choosing to shop city centre is probably more as a result of how close they are to it, vs an alternative, and also their lifestyle at stage in their life. Someone with a young family for example isn't going to want to drag them through the city centre to go shopping.

markpb

beauf wrote: »

Someone with a young family for example isn't going to want to drag them through the city centre to go shopping.

I'm not sure that's true.

beauf

markpb wrote: »

I'm not sure that's true.

You're expecting a bit much from a hypothetical sweeping generalisation.

monument

hmmm wrote: »

But I agree with you that simply saying "we're banning cars, get a bus if you want to come into town" will not work.

There's no official plan or draft plan which does that.

There will still be many car spaces with on-street parking and car parks. There's no city centre-wide ban planned.

hmmm wrote: »

You have to make public transport attractive to people if you want them to swap the comfort of their car, otherwise they'll prefer to drive to a shopping centre off the M50.

More frequent Darts, more buses, and a Luas extension, and more commuter trains are all on the way.

LuckyLloyd

Motorists can sit in the bunker if they wish on this one and try to shout it all down as nonsense. But it's coming. Cars WILL be excluded from the City Centre. What taxi drivers / general motorists should be doing is focussing on specific use case concerns. That's what DB will be doing.

This is happening.

Calina

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Motorists can sit in the bunker if they wish on this one and try to shout it all down as nonsense. But it's coming. Cars WILL be excluded from the City Centre. What taxi drivers / general motorists should be doing is focussing on specific use case concerns. That's what DB will be doing.

This is happening.

I'm fairly clear on this happening.

What is less obvious to me is whether the plan for public transport in the greater Dublin area will continue to be "yerrah it'll be grand [when the cars are gone]" or whether someone with the requisite authority is looking at building a comprehensive integrated public transport system for the area. The current situation whereby new tram or suburban services are done on a piece by piece basis rather than as part of a comprehensive plan for the city is ... not good.

LuckyLloyd

Calina wrote: »

I'm fairly clear on this happening.

What is less obvious to me is whether the plan for public transport in the greater Dublin area will continue to be "yerrah it'll be grand [when the cars are gone]" or whether someone with the requisite authority is looking at building a comprehensive integrated public transport system for the area. The current situation whereby new tram or suburban services are done on a piece by piece basis rather than as part of a comprehensive plan for the city is ... not good.

I wouldn't dispute that for a second and it's why politicians should be pushed to prioritise the projects with greater interconnectivity potential in the current context of 'one individual piece of investment at a time'. So, for example, DU and Metro North should be pushed over any further LUAS extensions for the time being.

But there is also no doubt that removing a large bulk of private transport from the City Centre will automatically make current Bus Services more efficient and clear the decks for what the city needs long term.

Mr.Frame

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What taxi drivers should be doing is focussing on specific use case concerns. That's what DB will be doing.

This is happening.

What do you mean by the above ,be specific

Calina

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But there is also no doubt that removing a large bulk of private transport from the City Centre will automatically make current Bus Services more efficient and clear the decks for what the city needs long term.

I wish I could believe you.

But my expectation is that removing a large amount of private transport in Dublin will result in "It's fine, we don't need to do anything any more, the buses are grand".

Spanish Eyes

Calina wrote: »

I wish I could believe you.

But my expectation is that removing a large amount of private transport in Dublin will result in "It's fine, we don't need to do anything any more, the buses are grand".

Oh I know.

But realistically, buses are the only option for those not on DART, suburban rail, or Luas lines.

They are the mainstay of transport in many suburbs not serviced by the above, so every little helps!

THEN get the integrated scheme sorted (30 years hence I'd say sceptically lol).

So for now, getting the buses moving is a great thing. The same problems do not apply to DART, and to a lesser extent Luas.

Bus users need a break now.

LXFlyer

At the Dublin City Council Transportation Strategic Policy Committee meeting yesterday the manager and a representative from the NTA stated that they are reviewing over 7,700 submissions that they received.

He stated that he would revert to the Committee at the next meeting in three months time.

Webcast is here:
http://www.dublincity.public-i.tv/co...ractive/189515

Thinkingaboutit

I suppose Dublin City Council seem hellbent on Detroit on the Liffey, but likely it'll be introduced in some nominal way, basically some more restrictions on cars, while the public transport system remains terrible.