Cars to be banned from key Dublin City Centre streets; priority to walking, buses etc

Snickers Man

MrMorooka wrote: »

.

I like this idea too:

from draft plan wrote:

Options that could be considered include the removal of the Connolly Luas Stop, potentially transforming the space into a Commuter Bus terminus. It may also be possible to provide a new commercial space overhead, linking directly into Connolly Station and potentially linking via a walkway into Busaras. This would have the added advantage of allowing Connolly passengers to move directly into Busaras at grade, without having to cross Amiens Street at street level.

Why do you think this is a good idea? If anything we need better connection between the Dart and LUAS. Connolly, so far as I know is the only point of connection between those two services at the moment and it SUCKS!

There is a massive long walk from the Connolly Luas to the Connolly Dart. If anything, I would advocate spending the money to tunnel through the Railway Station at Connolly to make the LUAS stop closer to the DART stop, and then loop the line around so it connects up to the remainder of the LUAS line out to the Point. And I would also extend that line to the car ferry terminals at the Port. The public transport access to there is appalling.

The masters of Dublin transport don't seem to get interconnection. They think that a 5-10min walk from one service to another is sufficient. It's not.

Muahahaha

cdebru wrote: »

http://dublinbikeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/WeatherandCyclinginDublin.pdf&ved=0CCEQFjACahUKEwjKiLfi64fGAhUlgdsKHT9EAEM&usg=AFQjCNHjZlTqMiAdYxvQPXT_P8V25zpU1A&sig2=HKPYX6mmYTdAwEAJmWu19Q

Its a report on perceptions of weather and cycling vs reality in Dublin.

Its interesting because over 60% of people said they reckoned if they cycled they would get rained on between 30% and 50% of the time, the report says the reality it is less than 5%

Thats interesting as I both cycle and motorcycle everywhere I need to go. The most common question I get asked would be 'do you not get drenched'. I had to think about it a bit but I reckon on the motorbike I might get absolutely soaked 4-5 times a year, other than that its light enough rain which doesnt penetrate my gear.

There really is a perception that commuting on two wheels means getting wet, a lot. But in my experience its nowhere near as much as people think it is.

Aard

lxflyer wrote: »

It says an awful lot about the people working there that they weren't prepared to change. I can understand it when it comes to business parks in the suburbs, but city centre locations have decent bus services along every radial corridor.

I think Seamus highlighted an interesting point. The company has a limited supply of parking. Clients demand parking. Clients' demands for parking trump (certain) employee demands for parking. The company changes its behaviour and redesignates those parking spaces. Presumably those employees who now do not have access to a parking space have managed to make alternative transport arrangements.

Very interesting "real life" supply/demand/freemarket stuff at work there.

Aard

Snickers Man wrote: »

Why do you think this is a good idea? If anything we need better connection between the Dart and LUAS. Connolly, so far as I know is the only point of connection between those two services at the moment and it SUCKS!

Arguably Tara and Abbey St make for a better Dart/Luas interchange point. Especially so with the new Luas BXD there too.

AngryLips

Aard wrote: »

Arguably Tara and Abbey St make for a better Dart/Luas interchange point. Especially so with the new Luas BXD there too.

As part of BXD they should build a short spur to Tara Street

Aard

AngryLips wrote: »

As part of BXD they should build a short spur to Tara Street

To what end? It would be extremely disruptive to services.

Carawaystick

cdebru wrote: »

Already been clarified those are specifically for private lmotorists some or all of them may not apply to public transport or cyclists

The rté link is broken for me.
Didn't see anything about the corpo complying with the planning permission and implementing a contraflow cycle lane on the Rosie Hackett bridge

LXFlyer

Updated link to RTE Story:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0611/707492-dublin-transport/

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

The rté link is broken for me.
Didn't see anything about the corpo complying with the planning permission and implementing a contraflow cycle lane on the Rosie Hackett bridge

There's no point in that being implemented until the cycle tracks along Eden Quay and the North Quays are implemented too. I would see that happening as part of that process.

The only place cyclists could currently come from to use it is from Burgh Quay heading west, and the only way they could go currently is onto Eden Quay heading east.

cdebru

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats interesting as I both cycle and motorcycle everywhere I need to go. The most common question I get asked would be 'do you not get drenched'. I had to think about it a bit but I reckon on the motorbike I might get absolutely soaked 4-5 times a year, other than that its light enough rain which doesnt penetrate my gear.

There really is a perception that commuting on two wheels means getting wet, a lot. But in my experience its nowhere near as much as people think it is.

Yeah I would say I got wet maybe twice in the last year, it makes sense actually whilst it rains more than 5% of days the chances of it raining during the 15 to 30 minutes of most peoples cycling commute is much lower than the number of days it actually rains.

thomasj

I see that mentioned on that document, any remaining buses that terminate in the city will be made cross-city.

Are there many left ?

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

I see that mentioned on that document, any remaining buses that terminate in the city will be made cross-city.

Are there many left ?

Not that many. Some are low frequency routes.

Some would probably be extended across a short distance onto the other side of the city (like the 25a/b to Merrion Square), so suitable termini would have to be found, while others could probably be merged into full cross-city routes.

Assuming Mountjoy Square doesn't count, and excluding Xpressos:

Lower Abbey Street: 29a, 33, 41/a/b/c, 130

Eden Quay (North Side): 27a, 27b

Eden Quay (South Side): 61

Parnell Street: 40b, 40d, 120

Talbot Street (Irish Life Mall): 31/a/b, 32

Talbot Street (Gardiner Street): 42, 43, 53

College Street: 49, 54a

Aston Quay: 79, 79a

Fleet Street: 47, 150

Burgh Quay: 68/a, 69

Poolbeg Street: 65/b

AngryLips

lxflyer wrote: »

Aston Quay: 79, 79a

These should be extended to serve Ringsend/Irishtown/Sandymount. For a part of the city that's so close to the city centre, these areas are chronically underserved by decent public transport yet they make a very natural termination point for so many of the bus services coming from the west.

thomasj

AngryLips wrote: »

These should be extended to serve Ringsend/Irishtown/Sandymount. For a part of the city that's so close to the city centre, these areas are chronically underserved by decent public transport yet they make a very natural termination point for so many of the bus services coming from the west.

They were meant to merge with the 27b giving an all day bus connection to connolly-heuston as well as being a single 79 route operating from parkwest. Don't know what happened with that.

thomasj

lxflyer wrote: »

Not that many. Some are low frequency routes.

Some would probably be extended across a short distance onto the other side of the city (like the 25a/b to Merrion Square), so suitable termini would have to be found, while others could probably be merged into full cross-city routes.

Assuming Mountjoy Square doesn't count, and excluding Xpressos:

Lower Abbey Street: 29a, 33, 41/a/b/c, 130

Eden Quay (North Side): 27a, 27b

Eden Quay (South Side): 61

Parnell Street: 40b, 40d, 120

Talbot Street (Irish Life Mall): 31/a/b, 32

Talbot Street (Gardiner Street): 42, 43, 53

College Street: 49, 54a

Aston Quay: 79, 79a

Fleet Street: 47, 150

Burgh Quay: 68/a, 69

Poolbeg Street: 65/b

Cheers for that lx.

I think they should merge the 27b with the 79. Then maybe send the 27a over to heuston.

Could the routes that ringsend garage operate be moved down to there?

Also maybe move the 120 to ballsbridge fulltime and send the 40b/d with it to boost the ballsbridge corridor.

schemingbohemia

AngryLips wrote: »

As part of BXD they should build a short spur to Tara Street

This has to be one of the stupidest suggestions I've ever heard on here, and that's saying something.

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

There's no point in that being implemented until the cycle tracks along Eden Quay and the North Quays are implemented too. I would see that happening as part of that process.

The only place cyclists could currently come from to use it is from Burgh Quay heading west, and the only way they could go currently is onto Eden Quay heading east.

Apart from the little point of the Corpo complying with their planning permission that is...

awec

seamus wrote: »

So I worked in a company with two Dublin offices, with a LUAS line going right past the front door of both.

They had an external company come in and do a travel survey as part of a whole healthy living buzz. They found that the people most likely to take public transport were those who lived > 10km from the city centre and those most likely to drive lived < 10km from the city centre. In other words, the wealthier employees. Those who had the most access to different forms of transport, were the least likely to avail of them and drive instead. Because they could afford to.

As much as people would like to pretend otherwise, there is still a snobbery issue in relation to transport, and being able to say you drove into work rather than took the bus or cycled is seen as a badge of honour by many.

But a lot of this is because Dublin public transport right now is pretty poor (in terms of availability), so areas that have good coverage (e.g. people living on the green Luas for example) tend to be more expensive to live in.

Aard

awec wrote: »

But a lot of this is because Dublin public transport right now is pretty poor (in terms of availability), so areas that have good coverage (e.g. people living on the green Luas for example) tend to be more expensive to live in.

Certainly seems to be the way. At the same time, there's a "lag" between infrastructure installation and extortionate rents. Inchicore/Drimnagh area seems relatively affordable with good transport links. When BXD comes on stream, Cabra will probably be the best place in the country wrt price/accessibility ratio.

Thinkingaboutit

When the silly people who run Dublin Bus run a decent service with inexpensive tickets, this might be considered. The 150 route now winds all around the Coombe instead of going straight through Crumlin and Dolphin's Barn (God knows the lobbying that went into that). Perhaps DCC could bother their silly heads with repairing cycle lanes (without considering other problems with them). If they banned cars with the options available now, it would ruin city centre commerce.

LXFlyer

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

When the silly people who run Dublin Bus run a decent service with inexpensive tickets, this might be considered. The 150 route now winds all around the Coombe instead of going straight through Crumlin and Dolphin's Barn (God knows the lobbying that went into that). Perhaps DCC could bother their silly heads with repairing cycle lanes (without considering other problems with them). If they banned cars with the options available now, it would ruin city centre commerce.

Well you can use LEAP if you want to save money. No one is forcing you to pay cash.

Dublin Bus don't set the fares - the National Transport Authority do that.

The 150 was rerouted as part of Network Direct, as part of the goal of eliminating over-capacity and duplication of routes. It replaced the 121 between Crumlin Hospital and the city. The people along that route are as entitled to a bus service as anyone else.

Crumlin Road already has enough buses on it with the 27, 56a, 77a and 151.

There's a need for a mix of bus routes, direct services along the QBCs and local routes that serve communities. The 150 is definitely one of the latter group.

cgcsb

I hope that whether or not this happens, that DCC will at least up it's game on maintenance. The amount of over flowing bins and filthy streets is a disgrace. I don't think I've ever seen a dirtier City in Europe, even provincial Spanish Cities are comparatively spotless. The situation is made worse by the fact that shops just leave their recycling/rubbish pilled up on the street outside their shop at the end of a rubbish collection day.

Also has anyone noticed James Joyce Bridge lately? because DCC haven't acknowledged it exists since the ribbon cutting. There is grass(I kid you not) growing out of the drains. the lights are mostly busted and the surface is absolutely filthy.

Finally why has the City permitted the focus Ireland Centre, Merchants quay Ireland and various other establishments catering to junkies to spring up around Christchurch, Temple Bar, the four courts (i.e. the most visited areas in the state)?

/Rant

Alun

cgcsb wrote: »

Also has anyone noticed James Joyce Bridge lately? because DCC haven't acknowledged it exists since the ribbon cutting. There is grass(I kid you not) growing out of the drains. the lights are mostly busted and the surface is absolutely filthy.

We don't seem to do routine preventative maintenance on public infrastructure at all it seems. As soon as a project is finished, or more commonly 99.9% finished, that's it, ignore it until something breaks or it looks so dishevelled it needs serious work and money to put it right again.

The Ha'penny Bridge is a case in point. Apart from removing the padlocks now and then I don't think the bridge has been cleaned since it's renovation back in 2001. It looks absolutely filthy.

cgcsb

Agreed, I'd really like to know why, despite being a comparatively high tax economy, there is little (none in some areas) in the way of public maintenance.

hardy_buck

cgcsb wrote: »

Agreed, I'd really like to know why, despite being a comparatively high tax economy, there is little (none in some areas) in the way of public maintenance.

Welfare thread coming in 3.. 2.. 1...
But seriously, basically one of the most genreous social welfare schemes in the world is your answer.

Dyr

cgcsb wrote: »

Agreed, I'd really like to know why, despite being a comparatively high tax economy, there is little (none in some areas) in the way of public maintenance.

In comparison to where?

We have extremely low levels of taxation in comparison to most euro countries, hence sweet FA money to put into public projects

nowecant

The Guardian

"Dublin becomes the latest city to propose partial ban on private cars "

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jun/19/dublin-proposes-ban-private-cars

sabat

Bambi wrote: »

In comparison to where?

We have extremely low levels of taxation in comparison to most euro countries, hence sweet FA money to put into public projects

DCC collects about €400M a year in rates from businesses in the city who receive fck all in return.

cgcsb

Bambi wrote: »

In comparison to where?

We have extremely low levels of taxation in comparison to most euro countries, hence sweet FA money to put into public projects

Bar France, I think taxes on income here are pretty steep comparatively. VAT is also eye watering compared to the rest of Europe. In the UK they pay roughly the same tax on their incomes and less on VAT, they also maintain a free national health service. And after all that can still sweep streets and change light bulbs. There certainly isn't grass comming through the pavement/cobbels/public drains like

Thinkingaboutit

lxflyer wrote: »

Well you can use LEAP if you want to save money. No one is forcing you to pay cash.

Dublin Bus don't set the fares - the National Transport Authority do that.

The 150 was rerouted as part of Network Direct, as part of the goal of eliminating over-capacity and duplication of routes. It replaced the 121 between Crumlin Hospital and the city. The people along that route are as entitled to a bus service as anyone else.

Crumlin Road already has enough buses on it with the 27, 56a, 77a and 151.

There's a need for a mix of bus routes, direct services along the QBCs and local routes that serve communities. The 150 is definitely one of the latter group.

If I use a bus I only use a Leap Card. The rate is still too high. The 150 route was a popular route. If it now follows the 121 route near the city, the route is just weird. Crumlin has a large population so needs lots of buses. Willington, where the 150 roughly starts, doesn't have that many buses near the 150 stop. Surely a 150 following the old route with maybe a 150A, say, for local access and service in the Coombe and immediately adjoining areas, could be considered. There is also the serious lack of radial routes, but before that the traditional axial routes like the 15 or 150 need improvement.

The main grumble for me is the terrible cycle situation. The cycle lanes for one, and the lack of an effective Garda response to the very high rate of bicycle theft (I was half tempted to edit some Donedeal posters at bus shelters and add 'stolen' before bicycle):pac:.

I want to second a point well made, about litter and the unsightly way recycle and other waste is left by businesses for disposal.