Cars to be banned from key Dublin City Centre streets; priority to walking, buses etc

AngryLips

lxflyer wrote: »

While I'd broadly approve of the plans, the proposed removal of the left turn from Westmoreland Street onto Aston Quay is a tad worrying.

I think it's absolutely essential that this left turn is removed, that junction is a total mess at the moment and there is no getting away from the reality that this is one of the most important pedestrian corridors in the city - that's not something that can be changed and DCC are right to plan around it. It's hard to know what the final vision is but, given the overall expected reduction in other traffic which this plan envisions, it's a leap to argue that rerouting bus routes through a detour via other streets would necessarily lead to increased journey times. The current projections on traffic growth will break the as-is scenario anyway in terms of congestion so comparing it to what we have now is academic. Maybe they'll send busses down College St/Hawkin St to join the quays from there?

monument

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Personally I think the thread title should be changed to mention the banning of cars and taxis from certain areas, and the emphasis on PT and pedestrians.

Not criticising the OP, but it might get a lot more attention!

Thread title changed

TallGlass wrote: »

I think DCC have lost there minds if they think banning cars from Bachelor's Walk is a good idea, that is going to cause chaos. Sure look what happens when there are sit down processes at the O Connel bridge intersection. Won't matter to me I just avoid town like plague.

There's a big difference between diverting cars in a planned way and the disruption from a protest.

TallGlass

monument wrote: »

Thread title changed



There's a big difference between diverting cars in a planned way and the disruption from a protest.

Obviously there is, but diverting all that traffic is just going to cause more traffic around the surrounding areas. Its not solving a problem. As a matter of interest do you drive? Have you ever drove around the places there mentioning banning cars?

They need to come up with a proper solution to the traffic situation in Dublin at the moment its getting out of control. Banning cars isn't going to fix this problem.

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

I think it's absolutely essential that this left turn is removed, that junction is a total mess at the moment and there is no getting away from the reality that this is one of the most important pedestrian corridors in the city - that's not something that can be changed and DCC are right to plan around it. It's hard to know what the final vision is but, given the overall expected reduction in other traffic which this plan envisions, it's a leap to argue that rerouting bus routes through a detour via other streets would necessarily lead to increased journey times. The current projections on traffic growth will break the as-is scenario anyway in terms of congestion so comparing it to what we have now is academic. Maybe they'll send busses down College St/Hawkin St to join the quays from there?

They won't be going north along Hawkins St.

The west side of that street will be where the LUAS line will be, and the east side will be needed for all the buses diverted away from O'Connell Bridge as they come down the Quays.

It's quite possible that Tara Street would work, but it reduces the usefulness of the Pearse St bus gate.

LXFlyer

TallGlass wrote: »

Obviously there is, but diverting all that traffic is just going to cause more traffic around the surrounding areas. Its not solving a problem. As a matter of interest do you drive? Have you ever drove around the places there mentioning banning cars?

They need to come up with a proper solution to the traffic situation in Dublin at the moment its getting out of control. Banning cars isn't going to fix this problem.

Like it or not, we have to accept that the bus service is still going to be the dominant form of public transport, be it BRT or normal buses for some time to come.

If there is going to be any hope of that bus service proving successful then decisions which are likely to be unpopular among motorists are going to have to be taken.

We simply cannot continue as is.

We now have a radically changed his network with far more cross city routes with regular interval departures, but where the interval just grows exponentially at peak hours because the buses get stuck in traffic.

Then people start complaining about buses being late, or ineffective.

Some difficult decisions need to be taken that make using the city centre as a through route unattractive to car drivers, but which do still allow access to city centre car parks for shoppers.

The devil ultimately will be in the details, but people need to realise that public transport cannot be improved without smashing a few eggs along the way.

Fizzy Duck

lxflyer wrote: »

They won't be going north along Hawkins St.

The west side of that street will be where the LUAS line will be, and the east side will be needed for all the buses diverted away from O'Connell Bridge as they come down the Quays.

It's quite possible that Tara Street would work, but it reduces the usefulness of the Pearse St bus gate.

Is it not proposed that the buses come up D'Olier Street? It will have two traffic lanes and spaces for buses to pull in and one lane for the BRT. Or was this just in the leaked plans from the previous year?

LXFlyer

Fizzy Duck wrote: »

Is it not proposed that the buses come up D'Olier Street? It will have two traffic lanes and spaces for buses to pull in and one lane for the BRT. Or was this just in the leaked plans from the previous year?

There won't be a right turn from Bachelors Walk onto O'Connell Bridge. Those buses will have to continue onto Eden Quay and turn right onto the Rosie Hackett Bridge.

I don't see any point in them doubling back along Burgh Quay onto D'Olier Street. It would make far more sense for them to use Hawkins Street

There are plenty of routes coming down O'Connell Street and coming from the Amiens Street direction to serve D'Olier Street.

The montage above was from the leaked plans which were still a work in progress.

Fizzy Duck

I meant instead of the banned westmoreland to aston quay movement would it not be envisaged they run d'olier to aston quay?

AngryLips

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't see any point in them doubling back along Burgh Quay onto D'Olier Street. It would make far more sense for them to use Hawkins Street.

Unless of course, Hawkins Street were needed to route outbound bus services onto the quays now that the left turn from Westmoreland Street onto the quays is being banned. It's just speculation sure, we don't know if D'Olier Street will be changed to a two-way street.

PLL

The 'After' photos make it look so much more like a modern European city.

Spanish Eyes

PLL wrote: »

The 'After' photos make it look so much more like a modern European city.

They certainly do.

But I don't want the character of the city to be lost either. Dublin has great charm. Just needs to be cleaned up and patrolled properly by the Gardai, and of course given back to us, at last.

noelfirl

PLL wrote: »

The 'After' photos make it look so much more like a modern European city.

They're doing that tiny bit of codology again of having bright blue skies and short sleeved shiny happy people walking about. I await the day when we get an after photo with driving rain and hailstones

Spanish Eyes

noelfirl wrote: »

They're doing that tiny bit of codology again of having bright blue skies and short sleeved sunny happy people walking about. I await the day when we get an after photo with driving rain and hailstones

Ah would you go way with yerself and your negativity FGS

It's always sunny in Dublin for publicity and tourism purposes.

The rest of us live there.

LXFlyer

Fizzy Duck wrote: »

I meant instead of the banned westmoreland to aston quay movement would it not be envisaged they run d'olier to aston quay?

The original montage that you linked to above was before BRT was added to the equation. I can't see a contra-flow bus lane fitting in with a BRT lane, median, bus lanes and a general traffic lane.

AngryLips wrote: »

Unless of course, Hawkins Street were needed to route outbound bus services onto the quays now that the left turn from Westmoreland Street onto the quays is being banned. It's just speculation sure, we don't know if D'Olier Street will be changed to a two-way street.

Again, I doubt it. As I posted above the LUAS lines will be on the western side of the street, and the east side will be needed for the buses diverted from O'Connell Bridge.


I suspect that Tara Street and Burgh Quay will be used for outbound buses.

dfx-

Isn't it all sort of hypothetical until the city centre lobbying groups barge in and dilute it?

Could the transport network cope with the added custom from this change?

MGWR

pclive wrote: »

The alternative is to use public transport

It's not an alternative if you're forced to use it.

MGWR

dfx- wrote: »

Isn't it all sort of hypothetical until the city centre lobbying groups barge in and dilute it?

Could the transport network cope with the added custom from this change?

Yes, and no.

As for "dilute", that needs context.

galljga1

I have skimmed through the posts so far so forgive me if this has been covered.
Is there anywhere that mentions projections covering the number of cars that will be removed from the road network vs increased public transport supply? Any increase in park and ride facilities for those living in more rural outlying areas?

thomasj

Personally I think if a London style charge was to be applied here ASAP, it will force private drivers to look at other options and it would ease the transition as traffic levels in the city would surely reduce.

Otherwise a sudden Monday morning changeover is just going to cause chaos.

Subpopulus

dfx- wrote: »

Isn't it all sort of hypothetical until the city centre lobbying groups barge in and dilute it?

Could the transport network cope with the added custom from this change?

Much of this Scheme is made up of other smaller schemes, which have been pulled together in a coherent fashion so that they're not all tripping over each others toes. This includes LUAS CrossCity, the BRT systems, the Greater Dublin Cycle network etc. etc. Surprisingly the synergy of all these parts has come together quite nicely, without any major bodges. They've also been developed over the past few years, so there's a fairly weighty body of work behind them now. There's now a very large case that this scheme has been thought through, and that this can work.

Some of the proposals of the scheme are already happening in various ways - such as Suffolk Street being pedestrianised, and the reduction in the number of bus routes terminating in the city centre. Also, when the LUAS starts running across the city centre then something will have to be done - the status quo won't work really any more.

Regarding the added custom - part of the plan involves expanding the bus service, buying new busses etc. What I'd be more worried about is the LUAS becoming completely jammed with people, especially if its range is to be expanded northwards.

cgcsb

Definitely some welcome developments there. Still disappointed about the lack of action on South William Street, the south end of the street has parking on both sides and a wide traffic lane, pedestrians must crab walk sideways up the street and avoid wing mirrors.

cgcsb

pclive wrote: »

Outbound buses will head north on O'Connell Bridge - Eden Quay - Rosie Hacket Bridge - Burgh Quay - Aston Quay

:eek::eek: holly moley between that and the bus banishment to benburb street, there'll be a dreadfully lengthend commute for some.

cgcsb

While I agree with banning taxis at college green, I don't agree with the ban being 24 hours. In reality there is no bus service after 23:30 and no political will to bring one in, probably because it'd destroy the taxi industry's peak hour currently propped up on a friday and saturday night with artificially high nitelink fares. So what we're left with is road space that, from 23:30 until 05:30 is not used by anyone at all.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

While I agree with banning taxis at college green, I don't agree with the ban being 24 hours. In reality there is no bus service after 23:30 and no political will to bring one in, probably because it'd destroy the taxi industry's peak hour currently propped up on a friday and saturday night with artificially high nitelink fares. So what we're left with is road space that, from 23:30 until 05:30 is not used by anyone at all.

I wouldn't bet on that.

Strong rumours that this may finally change.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

:eek::eek: holly moley between that and the bus banishment to benburb street, there'll be a dreadfully lengthend commute for some.

That loop won't happen - buses will probably use Tara St and Burgh Quay.

cgcsb

TallGlass wrote: »

I think DCC have lost there minds if they think banning cars from Bachelor's Walk is a good idea, that is going to cause chaos. Sure look what happens when there are sit down processes at the O Connel bridge intersection. Won't matter to me I just avoid town like plague.

Why would motorists queue to get through an area they know in advance they can't get through? completely different to encountering a protest you didn't know about before hand.

schemingbohemia

cgcsb wrote: »

:eek::eek: holly moley between that and the bus banishment to benburb street, there'll be a dreadfully lengthend commute for some.

But you can't just see the additions/loops without looking at the areas where buses will speed up due to fewer cars blocking them?

cgcsb

TallGlass wrote: »

Obviously there is, but diverting all that traffic is just going to cause more traffic around the surrounding areas. Its not solving a problem. As a matter of interest do you drive? Have you ever drove around the places there mentioning banning cars?

They need to come up with a proper solution to the traffic situation in Dublin at the moment its getting out of control. Banning cars isn't going to fix this problem.

International experience has shown that banning cars does indeed eliminate traffic congestion by definition.

MJohnston

I'd be interested to know whether some of the Quays private car bans will be 24 hours as well. I'd never dream of going near them in a car during rush hour (I commute via bicycle or on foot), but would often drive those routes late on weekends, or well away from peak times.

cgcsb

galljga1 wrote: »

I have skimmed through the posts so far so forgive me if this has been covered.
Is there anywhere that mentions projections covering the number of cars that will be removed from the road network vs increased public transport supply? Any increase in park and ride facilities for those living in more rural outlying areas?

Indeed what are you supposed to do when every bus is full, your area, like most of Dublin, has no rail provision at all and a long distance cycle would likely cause death or injury.