Tour de France 2015 thread **Please use spoiler tags before midnight**

Kavrocks

Thibaut Pinot

D9Male wrote: »

Not surprised Roche is out. I would say he averaged 500m on the front in the final Dauphiné climbs.

But he was the last Sky rider there with Froome most of the time regardless of how long he lasted on the front.

Anyway maybe this will mean they are saving Roche for the Vuelta and he'll get a chance as team leader.

lukegjpotter

Nico and The FroomeDog were in the Pyrenees really recently for some recon.

https://instagram.com/p/4JksfYmxuG/

MPFG

British reporter released an erroneous report

Lists all British riders and even Danny Pate ?? Nieve ? Rowe ?

My view is it was wishful thinking on their part

Roche has been top Dom for Froome all year....one slip up at the Dauphine and SKY throw him out....Can;t say for definite what they will do but it would be a big error

Because as discussed the Tour is not just about climbing and SKY have alot to chose from there ...but also about consistency, experience, descending, staying at the front, crosswinds, cobbles,etc

And despite being key in the above Roche is still a top climber even if he was very tired at the Dauphine

happytramp

GetWithIt wrote: »

Back to hating Sky so.

I'm going to re-double my efforts and concentrate extra hard on hating them after this. :mad:

D9Male

Holy smoke, how am I jumping on his grave? That is just ridiculous. I really like the guy, but given how competitive the Sky squad is, I think it is very tough to get into that squad. Some places are absolutely nailed on. Porte, Froome and Thomas. Stannard and Rowe. And Poels finished so strongly in Dauphiné that it would be hard to exclude him.

There is no denying that he rode poorly in the Dauphiné. I think it would be rash to exclude him, but they have a lot of climbers not far off his level. As much as I would love him to ride and succeed in the Tour, I can understand his exclusion.

And as someone who has followed his career for years, I would prefer to see him train for a shot at co-leading the Vuelta rather than run the risk of doing a bad job as a work horse for Froome.

MPFG

But the thing is he has not been excluded AFAIK

IF Deignan were excluded ( I hope he is not) ....I won;t say he rode very poorly at the Lankawi (which he did) and leave it as that

YeahOK

Nairo Quintana

MPFG wrote: »

British reporter released an erroneous report

Do you know this for a fact?

Maybe Roche & Deignan might show up for the nationals if they've both missed the cut....

MPFG

YeahOK wrote: »

Do you know this for a fact?

Maybe Roche & Deignan might show up for the nationals if they've both missed the cut....

SKY have denied the report they issued and said it is wrong ....list in a few days

YeahOK

Nairo Quintana

MPFG wrote: »

SKY have denied the report they issued and said it is wrong ....list in a few days

Wonder are they flying a few kites to avoid a Where's Wiggo debacle?

D9Male

MPFG wrote: »

But the thing is he has not been excluded AFAIK

IF Deignan were excluded ( I hope he is not) ....I won;t say he rode very poorly at the Lankawi (which he did) and leave it as that

But Roche did ride very poorly in the Dauphiné. That race was the first time it even crossed my mind that he may not be nailed on for the Tour team.

Obviously none of us are privy to how Roche has trained to peak this year, but it wasn't just how poor he was. It was the fact that he was lined up to be the last man with Froome. And then after waiting behind Kennaugh or Poels or whoever he either got dropped before hitting the front or he just did a small turn at the front.

Does being Irish insulate someone from criticism? And there is a big difference between how seriously Sky would take the performance of one of their key domestiques in the Dauphiné compared to how they would consider performance in an Asian Tour race.

xebec

Nairo Quintana

MPFG wrote: »

SKY have denied the report they issued and said it is wrong ....list in a few days

Interesting, when I posted my link to the BBC site the Sky site had the same list that the BBC were referring to, now it has been removed...

MPFG

D9Male wrote: »

But Roche did ride very poorly in the Dauphiné. That race was the first time it even crossed my mind that he may not be nailed on for the Tour team.

Obviously none of us are privy to how Roche has trained to peak this year, but it wasn't just how poor he was. It was the fact that he was lined up to be the last man with Froome. And then after waiting behind Kennaugh or Poels or whoever he either got dropped before hitting the front or he just did a small turn at the front.

Does being Irish insulate someone from criticism? And there is a big difference between how seriously Sky would take the performance of one of their key domestiques in the Dauphiné compared to how they would consider performance in an Asian Tour race.

I am not insulating Roche from criticism....I am looking at the validity of the criticism and in this case a poor Dauphine (but not that bad) does not justify leaving him out of the Tour given his experience and work all year and given the nature of the Dauphine as a warm up race...( and I mentioned nothing about him being Irish...) You on the other hand believe a poor Dauphine is a valid reason for exclusion ....Fine that is your opinion but it is not mine.

Also if he doesn't do the Tour he won't do the Vuelta as leader because if SKY don't think he deserves Tour place then there is no way they would make him leader in another Grand Tour

D9Male

They would if they thought his bad Dauphiné was caused by poor form which can be repaired by some rest.

After all, a lot of the other potential Sky team leaders in the Vuelta (Froome, Porte, Henao, Konig) will probably not be doing the Vuelta if they ride the Tour.

I thought that accusing someone of jumping on Roche's grave was a bit more than looking on the validity of the criticism.

I still think there is a big chance he won't be in Utrecht to start the Tour.

D9Male

Anyway, in actual team news, Sam Bennett is confirmed in the Bora-Argon Tour team.

Barta, Bennett, Buchmann, Dempster, Huzrski, Mendes, Nerz, Schillinger, Voss

Darkglasses

Alberto Contador

In other news, I just learned that the van Rensburg brothers, like the Baggio brothers, are not related.

D9Male

https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/613312540806922240

Maybe Roche is in after all. Good on him.

MPFG

D9Male ...ok maybe I got a bit carried away with the walking on the grave part and apologize

But still disagree with the other parts

D9Male

Fair enough. Seems like you were right anyway, so we're all cool.

All we need now is for him to "do a Landa" and we're all happy.

MPFG

Well you could be right yet...not that I want that but there is no guarantee that Brailsford will pick him

Also Deignan ...has he been seen training with anyone ??


Sam Bennett ...love if he could get a stage .....wonder if he will go for the points jersey ...he is consistent...or is that a step too far ?
I suppose one stage win would be magnificent

Hoping Dan martin wins stage 3 or stage 8 or both

D9Male

I have a sneaky feeling Dan Martin is having a big tour. He seems very capable on timing his form to produce the goods on the big days. I am not too concerned about the moderate form this spring.

If ever there was a GT route to suit Dan Martin it is this one. Sure he will lose time on the cobbled stage, but I think a few of the GC contenders will too. And I don't think the time gaps in this race will be as big as last time unless the weather is just as bad.

There are lots of Vuelta-type finishes. Some of which have time gaps.

There are very few time trial kilometres.

So I am not sure if I want him to stage hunt on the Murs and in Mende or Gap, or to ride for GC.

MPFG

D9Male wrote: »

So I am not sure if I want him to stage hunt on the Murs and in Mende or Gap, or to ride for GC.

Can do both and may need to as he can make up bonus seconds for later here ..

Kavrocks

Thibaut Pinot

D9Male wrote: »

https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/613312540806922240

Maybe Roche is in after all. Good on him.

Seems odd he'd be with Froome so much now and then not in the Tour?

Darkglasses

Alberto Contador

Kavrocks wrote: »

Seems odd he'd be with Froome so much now and then not in the Tour?

My thoughts too. I sense the article is inaccurate.

GetWithIt

D9Male wrote: »

Anyway, in actual team news, Sam Bennett is confirmed in the Bora-Argon Tour team.

Barta, Bennett, Buchmann, Dempster, Huzrski, Mendes, Nerz, Schillinger, Voss

Team built around Bennett stage wins / green jersey?

smurphy29

Deignan has declared he's riding the nationals, so I would take that to mean he's not riding the tour.

As for Roche riding with Froome, I wouldn't read anything into it. I would imagine Brailsford wants to keep the riders on their toes as much as possible until the last moment, so I wouldn't attach much meaning to anyone being spotted training with Froome.

Deignan gave himself a good chance with his ride in the Dauphine, but with the depth on the team it is very hard to get a ride. Nieve, Konig and Porte all have outstanding pedigree, Kennaugh was exceptional in the Dauphine and Geraint Thomas was 5sec off winning the Tour de Suisse, so those five were always nailed on. The TTT and the classics-style stages necessitate a couple of roleurs, so after that it's a real scrap for the last place. The best chance for the Irish lads would have been if Konig or Porte were still not ready after their varying experiences in the Giro.

MPFG

smurphy29 wrote: »

Deignan has declared he's riding the nationals, so I would take that to mean he's not riding the tour.

As for Roche riding with Froome, I wouldn't read anything into it. I would imagine Brailsford wants to keep the riders on their toes as much as possible until the last moment, so I wouldn't attach much meaning to anyone being spotted training with Froome.

Deignan gave himself a good chance with his ride in the Dauphine, but with the depth on the team it is very hard to get a ride. Nieve, Konig and Porte all have outstanding pedigree, Kennaugh was exceptional in the Dauphine and Geraint Thomas was 5sec off winning the Tour de Suisse, so those five were always nailed on. The TTT and the classics-style stages necessitate a couple of roleurs, so after that it's a real scrap for the last place. The best chance for the Irish lads would have been if Konig or Porte were still not ready after their varying experiences in the Giro.

Kennaugh was not on the list that was on SKY's website either
Don't agree Nieve is nailed on .......though Nieve a very good climber in form

smurphy29

MPFG wrote: »

Kennaugh was not on the list that was on SKY's website either
Don't agree Nieve is nailed on .......though Nieve a very good climber in form

Kennaugh was on the list. Nieve has been among Sky's best climbing domestiques for some time now, so I'd see him as massively odds-on to make the cut.

The depth of talent is strong in the team. It looks like the best team they can put out since the Wiggo-Froome-Porte-Rogers train crushed all comers.

MPFG

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/06/team-sky-plays-down-leaked-tour-lineup-says-it-doesnt-accurately-reflect-final-squad/

And in a so so Giro field excluding besides Contador, Landa & Aru.... Nieve came 27th at almost 50 minutes down

He was 18th on stage 15
18th on stage 16
25th on stage 20 for example

and I saw him about 3 times doing dom work

Deignan was better than him at last years Vuelta ...so no I don;t think he is not one of SKY's best climbers...his form is hit & miss
As I said on form he is good

It seems people suffer from confirmation bias .....and see what they want to see in cycling
A commentator makes a big deal about a rider one day and everyone says what a great race he had even though he is missing every other day

Another rider works steadily everyday but has a problem a few days and is pasted with this view for the year

Kavrocks

Thibaut Pinot

MPFG wrote: »

Don't agree Nieve is nailed on .......

I don't either. I think its more likely we'd see Kiryienka because of the TTT. He can set a monstrous tempo on the flat and can climb too which is always a bonus.

Lusk_Doyle

Kavrocks wrote: »

I don't either. I think its more likely we'd see Kiryienka because of the TTT. He can set a monstrous tempo on the flat and can climb too which is always a bonus.

He seems to be the one that is leading the group most of the time on camera anyway.