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Goodbye Aer Lingus

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    #332
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭54and56


    end of the road wrote: »
    ireland is a small island, with a small rail network which isn't proffitable but socially necessary.
    OK, let me explain again. The actual rail network is a national asset the managing of which should be contracted out. For that to happen the private operator just needs to be 15% more efficient than the current state operator. My own anecdotal evidence seeing loads of Irish Rail workers sloping around Heuston station and chatting in little groups for extended periods of time give me great confidence that a private operator of the network would not only deliver cost savings for "we" the taxpayers but would also provide them with enough profit to take on the task.

    Same goes for outsourcing the operation of the trains. Just do it more efficiently and it's a win win for everybody. If I'm not mistaken that's how the LUAS operates and it's a very efficient cost effective service.


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    #333
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Graham wrote: »
    Correct, they're doing it as the elected Irish Government.
    they aren't. i didn't elect them, so they aren't doing it in my name. this should have been put to the people

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #334
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,855 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    end of the road wrote: »
    they aren't. i didn't elect them, so they aren't doing it in my name. this should have been put to the people

    :rolleyes:


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    #335
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    awec wrote: »
    I am not sure you know how democracy works.

    The government are elected to work on our behalf. They make decisions on our behalf.

    Not every single person has to agree with every single decision.

    If every taxpayer had to be consulted and informed of every decision the government makes then nothing would ever get done.
    i didn't vote for them, so there not making decisians on my behalf

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #336
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Graham wrote: »
    Never say never.
    i will say never

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #337
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    end of the road wrote: »
    they aren't. i didn't elect them, so they aren't doing it in my name. this should have been put to the people

    It was put to the people in an election.
    end of the road wrote: »
    i will say never

    Whatever make you feel better.


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    #338
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Do you seriously believe anything you write? Our Govt were elected by the "we" you keep referring to. By electing them we placed our trust in them.

    Time (and in particular the next election) will tell if they have or haven't done a good job overall. Until then they are our elected representatives and that doesn't change just because a few tin foil hat wearing left wing loopers disagree with them*




    * Not referring to you end of the road.

    i didn't elect them and i didn't and won't be placing my trust in them. never trust a government

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #339
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭54and56


    end of the road wrote: »
    unions are as relevant today as they were in the 90s 80s 70s and before. very relevant. they are needed, necessary, and do good work for their members

    You really are hilarious. So this is a picture of success and relevance then?

    sg6byr.jpg


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    #340
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    end of the road wrote: »
    i didn't elect them and i didn't and won't be placing my trust in them. never trust a government

    I dont think you understand the basics of how a democracy works.


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    #341
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    end of the road wrote: »
    unions are as relevant today as they were in the 90s 80s 70s and before. very relevant. they are needed, necessary, and do good work for their members

    I don't think the unions of the 70s or 80s would have supported jobsbridge or gateway schemes.


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    #342
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    end of the road wrote: »
    i didn't elect them and i didn't and won't be placing my trust in them. never trust a government

    You're not having a good day there EOTR, it looks like the general population don't agree with your opinion on unions or choice of government.
    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    You really are hilarious. So this is a picture of success and relevance then?

    sg6byr.jpg


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    #343
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭54and56


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    I don't think the unions of the 70s or 80s would have supported jobsbridge or gateway schemes.

    Who cares what they would or wouldn't have supported. the days of the free market being bullied by a hard core of union activists are well and truly over forever*

    Never say forever :eek:


  • Options
    #344
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭54and56


    end of the road wrote: »
    i didn't elect them and i didn't and won't be placing my trust in them. never trust a government

    So what is the point of an election? Is it simply so the people we elect can collect the info needed and then hold a daily referendum on all the decisions which have to be made?

    Is that what you're proposing?


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    #345
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    OK, let me explain again. The actual rail network is a national asset the managing of which should be contracted out.

    no it shouldn't. it must remain within state hands for the greater good of ensureing safety and keeping it going dispite the little it gets. britain tried that and they got railtrack, a company who struggled, could and didn't do much, wasn't able to manage its infrastructure and didn't know what it had. and of course the various rail crashes under its rein. it proved that the railway infrastructure isn't viable in private hands and cannot be trusted in private hands.
    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    For that to happen the private operator just needs to be 15% more efficient than the current state operator.

    wrong. it can't be any more efficient. the nature of the track doesn't allow it and to allow it would cost billions, something that we haven't got and isn't going to come from private capital. thats the reality. also, looking at our neighbour where such investment has been viable and the service is more intensive but in private hands, large scale cancelations of services when things go wrong is rife as the bare minimum of staff to run the average service is employed meaning no leeway should things go wrong.
    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    My own anecdotal evidence seeing loads of Irish Rail workers sloping around Heuston station and chatting in little groups for extended periods of time give me great confidence that a private operator of the network would not only deliver cost savings for "we" the taxpayers but would also provide them with enough profit to take on the task.

    wrong. the proffits would have to come from double or quadruple subsidies which would mean more of a cost to the tax payer, along with extremely higher fares.
    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Same goes for outsourcing the operation of the trains. Just do it more efficiently and it's a win win for everybody.

    its not. again there would need to be huge subsidies to ensure a return for those companies shareholders. it can't be run more efficiently without huge investment in track where possible, and some of the lines can't be upgraded any further to be any more intensive. also, such companies would only employ the bare minimum of staff to run the average service but not enough to allow cover or not enough cover, meaning should something happen there would be large scale service cancelations and more. its just to costly for the problems it would bring. the current system for all its faults keeps services going
    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    If I'm not mistaken that's how the LUAS operates and it's a very efficient cost effective service.

    luas cannot be compared to a heavy rail system. its a small light rail system which is self contained

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #346
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Who cares what they would or wouldn't have supported. the days of the free market being bullied by a hard core of union activists are well and truly over forever*

    Never say forever :eek:
    the market was never bullied by anyone. the market wasn't viable at one stage and for some things never will be viable. all the unions did was look for better for their members and faced lies and spin at every turn.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #347
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    end of the road wrote: »
    luas cannot be compared to a heavy rail system. its a small light rail system which is self contained

    I have no idea what that means. Care to explain?

    end of the road wrote: »
    the market wasn't viable at one stage

    Until the Unions lost some of there power, then it was viable.


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    #348
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Hoping for a walk through vote tomorrow in relation to the sale. It might result in a few more LP tds getting it in the neck when they return to the Northside and Shannon for the long weekend. Tick Tock.


  • Options
    #349
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭54and56


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    Hoping for a walk through vote tomorrow in relation to the sale. It might result in a few more LP tds getting it in the neck when they return to the Northside and Shannon for the long weekend. Tick Tock.

    The reality is the decision is made and the Dail debate is simply a sideshow allowing TD's who's constituencies are affected to do a bit of grandstanding which will go down well locally and help offset the parish pump brigade who will seek to hang them out to dry because they put the national interest ahead of local or trade union interest.

    It's just a game and two days is enough time for them all to do a bit of self congratulating on how they fought to ensure .....blah blah blah..... for their constituents.


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    #350
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    The reality is the decision is made and the Dail debate is simply a sideshow allowing TD's who's constituencies are affected to do a bit of grandstanding which will go down well locally and help offset the parish pump brigade who will seek to hang them out to dry because they put the national interest ahead of local or trade union interest.



    It's just a game and two days is enough time for them all to do a bit of self congratulating on how they fought to ensure .....blah blah blah..... for their constituents.

    Agreed. However anything that knocks another % point or two from Labour will suit me.


  • Options
    #351
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,460 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    end of the road wrote: »
    i didn't vote for them, so there not making decisians on my behalf

    Yes they are. Doesn't matter if you voted for them or not. The majority of people voted for them, that's why they're in government.


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    #352
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭54and56


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    Agreed. However anything that knocks another % point or two from Labour will suit me.

    You are hoping for a Labour swing to FG?? :confused:


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    #353
    Buona Fortuna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Buona Fortuna


    Just seen Willie Walsh on RTE - he's like O'Leary without the charm :(


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    #354
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Graham wrote: »
    Until the Unions lost some of there power, then it was viable.

    the unions lost none of their power. they were given much of what they wanted, so didn't need to fight as hard. they could still make the market pay if the market tries to drive down their members conditions. a couple of loonies back in the 80s brutalizing a couple of easy targets isn't the unions losing power. it was the government and industries lying that caused the problems of the 70s. the market wasn't viable and it was advances in technology that made it viable.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #355
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    end of the road wrote: »
    the market wasn't viable and it was advances in technology that made it viable.

    Nope, it was competition that made things viable. The relatively recent implosion of the Unions is more a sign that they are much less needed and much less wanted (if at all).


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    #356
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    I'd argue in favour of deregulation tbh leading to greater competition. What made a lot of difference to Ryanair was the ability to have bases in different countries.


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    #357
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    end of the road wrote: »
    the unions lost none of their power. they were given much of what they wanted, so didn't need to fight as hard. they could still make the market pay if the market tries to drive down their members conditions. a couple of loonies back in the 80s brutalizing a couple of easy targets isn't the unions losing power. it was the government and industries lying that caused the problems of the 70s. the market wasn't viable and it was advances in technology that made it viable.

    It really wasn't.


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    #358
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Graham wrote: »
    Nope, it was competition that made things viable. The relatively recent implosion of the Unions is more a sign that they are much less needed and much less wanted (if at all).
    no, it was advances in technology that made it all cheeper for competition viable. the unions haven't imploaded at all, only some gullible people choosing not to join. they are very much needed and wanted and are necessary

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #359
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Calina wrote: »
    It really wasn't.

    i know it wasn't viable at the time.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #360
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, it was advances in technology that made it all cheeper for competition viable. the unions haven't imploaded at all, only some gullible people choosing not to join. they are very much needed and wanted and are necessary

    Do you actually work there EOTR?

    Because it was not advances in technology. It was the removal of regulatory barriers which had an impact on the aviation sector. Not technology changes.


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    #361
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    You are hoping for a Labour swing to FG?? :confused:

    No difference at the moment between FG and Labour.


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