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Goodbye Aer Lingus

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    #212
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,398 ✭✭✭cml387


    end of the road wrote: »
    not good at all when you can't afford to pay the new charge on top of the all ready existing charges you can't afford.



    whats wrong with the boat. yes it takes time but sometimes people need to stop rushing everywhere and relax.

    You know, I admire your persistance EOTR.

    I can see the advertisements for your version of Aer Lingus. "Sure what's your hurry. Take the boat"


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    #213
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    Cobblers. Ryanair came in and prices were slashed overnight.

    no, there were planns to appeal to the low cost market for a good while as the higher paying traffic was decreasing.
    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    They had a cosy monopoly, simple as, and they rode it hard.

    they didn't. they had a necessary monopoly as air travel wasn't viable enough here before ryanair found a way to make it so
    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    £300.00 for a flight to the UK?? That kept their buddies on the Board in cream, and feck the flying public.

    it kept the flights viable. nobody was kept in cream, the wages they got was the going wage at the time as it was at the time a high position that had to be payed a high wage to attract the best, it still is.
    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    So feck Air Lingus now. I hope AIG asset strip it and throw the bones in the bin. Be little loss.

    not at all, you wanted to fly, so you had to pay for it. so saying feck them now because you had to pay for a service is just a bunch of rabel. it will be a huge loss. you had to pay to ensure viability. deal with it. you could have got the boat.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #214
    WheatenBriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,170 ✭✭✭WheatenBriar


    end of the road wrote: »
    why. whats wrong with subsidizing things. do you have a problem with subsidizing things in general
    Subsidising services people pay for in full everywhere else is a monumental waste of public money


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    #215
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    Ryanair is more of an Irish company imo,
    and they're flying - long may they continue. They could have sold to Ryanair, but ohh, no. How dare the upstarts bid on the old family silver. Well the silvers sold now, and they didn't opt for the "Irish" Ryanair bid, so I care less what they do it now tbh. They'll strip out the valuable Heathrow slots and quietly phase out the shamrock -and so be it.


    imo means nothing as you were wrong. both were fully irish and as irish as each other. allowing ryanair to own it as well as their own company would have meant less competition in the market. i thought competition was what you wanted

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #216
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    They will be putting the money into an infrastructure fund, maybe water.

    i'l believe it when i see it

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #217
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'l believe it when i see it

    That's the nature of infrastructure.... It won't be there tomorrow..... So, your belief may take a while.


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    #218
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    Subsidising services people pay for in full everywhere else is a monumental waste of public money
    no its not. sometimes services aren't viable in one place but are in another

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #219
    Ruu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,622 ✭✭✭Ruu


    In Willie we trust!


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    #220
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    That's the nature of infrastructure.... It won't be there tomorrow..... So, your belief may take a while.

    yeah. it won't happen

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #221
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,398 ✭✭✭cml387


    end of the road wrote: »
    they didn't. they had a necessary monopoly as air travel wasn't viable enough here before ryanair found a way to make it so

    How did Ryanair make air travel "viable" when up to then it hadn't been?

    Not that I accept that air travel in Ireland wasn't viable before the 1980's,frankly a ridiculous assertion.


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    #222
    Massimo Cassagrande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Massimo Cassagrande


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, there were planns to appeal to the low cost market for....... BLAH.......... the boat.
    I doubt you flew much back then.

    Carry on. You're dull anyway.


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    #223
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah. it won't happen

    Quite the sooth-sayer!

    I predict some infrastructure will be built in the future.

    Who will be right?


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    #224
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    They will be putting the money into an infrastructure fund, maybe water.

    The FG election war chest.


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    #225
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    So how much is this worth to the government?


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    #226
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    end of the road wrote: »
    which means (as its FG and the indo) it will be used to pay off the national debt.

    Just so I'm straight then:

    You don't trust the government with the proceeds of the sale of Aer Lingus.
    You think the running of Aer Lingus should remain entrusted to the government.

    Do you sense a flaw in the logic there?


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    #227
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,445 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    The fear mongering of this deal is incredible.

    Firstly IAG is not an airline but a group that owns several airlines.

    BA, Iberia and Vueling.

    All of this still exist in their own right so why do people think that Aer Lingus will be phased out when its brand is strong and clearly linked with Ireland.

    The slots issue is being made as a big deal but guarantees have been sought.

    Unions are automatically opposed, as they do. Operating in a protectionist mode without viewing the bigger picture.
    They don't seem to realise that they have no guarantee that their current jobs will be safe in 7 years as things currently stand and in my opinion the best option is for IAG to promote growth in the airline and in Dublin airport as ultimately that is what will benefit IAG and its shareholders.


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    #228
    ctrl-alt-delete
    Registered Users Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    Why would the EU block any Ryanair takeover, but not the takeover by a bigger machine?

    At least the slots will be preserved for at least 7 years.


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    #229
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »
    Why would the EU block any Ryanair takeover, but not the takeover by a bigger machine?

    A Ryanair takeover would have created many monopoly routes, particularly from Ireland.


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    #230
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,398 ✭✭✭cml387


    Traditionally, the airline industry makes no sense for exactly the strange reasons being given in this thread for why Aer Lingus shouldn't be sold.



    Warren Buffet:
    " If a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down".


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    #231
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    cml387 wrote: »
    Warren Buffet:
    " If a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down".

    If some of our fellow posters had been present, Orville would have been give a substantial subsidy and a monopoly on both ends of the Kitty Hawk field.


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    #232
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,398 ✭✭✭cml387


    Graham wrote: »
    If some of our fellow posters had been present, Orville would have been give a substantial subsidy and a monopoly on both ends of the Kitty Hawk field.

    Another example is Concorde. BA were losing money on it even though they had been gifted the aircraft by the British and French taxpayer. The staff on the Concorde service were given the job of coming up with ways of making more money. They had the idea of asking the passengers how much they thought their fare cost. Since the vast majority of them had no idea how much their fare was (since it was companies or PA's who has actually paid) they came up with some vastly inflated sum far greater than the actual fare, which then became the ticket price.


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    #233
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,561 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    northknife wrote: »
    In a few years time, I sense that there will be very little trans Atlantic flights from Ireland and it will all be connecting flights from the U.K.

    That doesn't even make sense. Why do you think this takeover would lead to that?


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    #234
    mbur
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur


    awec wrote: »
    It doesn't make a lot of money.

    Aer Lingus Plc only made 72 million in 2014. The government only owned 25% of it.

    It only made the government ~ 18 million a year. That is pennies in government terms.

    Selling for 335 million means the government are getting about 18 years worth of 2014 profit levels.

    Good deal.
    18/335 = 5% Try getting that at the bank. This sale is a sh*t deal on a performing asset.


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    #235
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,561 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    mbur wrote: »
    18/335 = 5% Try getting that at the bank. This sale is a sh*t deal on a performing asset.

    The money won't be sitting in the bank.

    It's only 18 million a year, which is nothing in government terms. Governments talk in billions, not millions.

    Ireland takes in like 30 billion a year or something in tax. Calling 18 million a year "performing" is like you getting excited when you get your few euro interest (if even) in your account once a year.


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    #236
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Quite the sooth-sayer!

    I predict some infrastructure will be built in the future.

    Who will be right?
    not from this money it won't.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #237
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    end of the road wrote: »
    not from this money it won't.

    I'm sure you going to ignore this question, the same as every other question where you are asked to defend your position.

    Have you anything at all to back this up, a shred of evidence to the contrary perhaps?


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    #238
    mbur
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur


    awec wrote: »
    The money won't be sitting in the bank.

    It's only 18 million a year, which is nothing in government terms. Governments talk in billions, not millions.

    Ireland takes in like 30 billion a year or something in tax. Calling 18 million a year "performing" is like you getting excited when you get your few euro interest (if even) in your account once a year.

    Your 'argument' is complete waffle. 5% return is a performing asset. By your standards 335 million is only spare change so why bother to sell?


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    #239
    Massimo Cassagrande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Massimo Cassagrande


    end of the road wrote: »
    imo means nothing as you were wrong. both were fully irish and as irish as each other. allowing ryanair to own it as well as their own company would have meant less competition in the market. i thought competition was what you wanted

    Yeah.but today is bye bye Aer Lingus and Ryanair announced record profits. Good enough. Quare Lingus hit the end of the road, but it was always on the cards.


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    #240
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    mbur wrote: »
    Your 'argument' is complete waffle. 5% return is a performing asset. By your standards 335 million is only spare change so why bother to sell?

    What was the % return each year for the last 10, 20 years?


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    #241
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »
    Yeah.but today is bye bye Aer Lingus and Ryanair announced record profits. Good enough. Quare Lingus hit the end of the road, but it was always on the cards.

    Did you see a different press release to everyone else? Aer Lingus is not going anywhere.


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