So when will there be a referendum on criminalizing meat eating?

LoTR

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But where is your alternative? You've done a lot of finger pointing, but where is the viable alternative from you?

You want the world to be vegetarian / vegan? What does this world of yours look like...? Everybody eating rice & lentils?

There are obviously many, many more meatless dishes beside rice and lentils, obviously more than I can list here. And the raising of animals for meat causes an insane strain on resources, which could indeed otherwise be used to feed large populations. And it worsens climate change, which has long term negative effects for everyone. If you really are interested in this topic, this is a good site to start: http://www.chooseveg.com/environment

Higher meat consumption has always been linked to greater affluence. Lower with greater poverty.

And very much within the story of capitalism and free-trade movements, the affluent populations amass their fortunes on the backs of the poor, leading to an ever-increasing world wage gap, where the minority live like kings, while the majority suffer. The system obviously makes meat an attractive option for those who can afford it - by making sure the disconnect between the meat on the plate and truth of how it got there is maintained.

Since I can post links now, here is a masterpiece scene about this disconnect from a very beautiful movie called Samsara: https://vimeo.com/73234721 - it doesn't even show the real graphic nature of slaughterhouses, it's more about the process and disconnect.

Sam Kade

Bongalongherb wrote: »

I have to agree, the Linda McCartney ones are actually very tasty, especially the sausages. I find the burgers to cause a lot of gas belching though, but the sausages are really nice dipping them into ketchup.

Do you know that they are poisoned with salt they use way more than conventional sausages. Check it out if you don't believe me.

Plryty

Sam Kade wrote: »

Not many factory farms in Ireland. You obviously rely on youtube for your information on farming. McCartney talks nonsense. I been in a meat factory and seen the whole process from start to finish I still eat meat. I've also tried mccartneys wife's crap sausages and there's nothing like the real thing.

Sure....If you ignore the fact that basically all pigs in Ireland are raised indoors until slaughter, & the majority of chickens meat & eggs comes from battery farms (as is common worldwide), & these chickens are not counted under the human slaughter act to be stunned unconscious during slaughter.

Our cows & sheep have a high quality of welfare, you're kidding yourself if you think all animals in Ireland have such welfare though.

pancuronium

I was going to stay in today but because of this post I'm going shooting pigeons as they come home to roost you can thank your stupid post for forcing my hand!

CK73

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The boiling of live lobsters is a bit unsavoury, why don't they just keep them alive and then when it's ready for supper just euthanize them. Did you ever hear the screams from the lobster when put into boiling water ? poor little crustaceans.

I have to agree, I don't like that at all and even the thing about putting them in the freezer first I don't buy it. When you go to Epcot in Florida they have a section where you touch hot and cold and you still think it's hot when it's cold etc, as your senses get confused. I reckon it must be painful and a nasty way to die.

Shenshen

Sam Kade wrote: »

Do you know that they are poisoned with salt they use way more than conventional sausages. Check it out if you don't believe me.

1.8g per 2 sausages?

I'm not sure if that's going to kill me, eating that every other Saturday?

Bongalongherb

Sam Kade wrote: »

Do you know that they are poisoned with salt they use way more than conventional sausages. Check it out if you don't believe me.

It doesn't bother me, we're not here that long anyway so may as well enjoy the tasty salty McCartney ones. Sure the air and water and all foods are poisoned so no point in worrying/stressing oneself out.

CK73

Is this the wrong time to admit having made a turkey curry for dinner tonight? It was yummy!

I had fish Yesterday, is that better?

pconn062

Sam Kade wrote: »

Most of the chicken sold here is produced in the uk, pork maybe but the majority of beef is produced from grass. What type of farms did you work on? Mccartney's sausages was a dig at McCartney and his personal politics.

How do you think the majority of chicken is raised in the UK? Free-range? I worked on several different farms (during my teenage years), one of which was predominantly a beef cattle farm and the animals were mostly treated well, raised on pastures. Most of the beef produced in Ireland is still raised outdoors and grass fed, hence why I didn't mention beef in my original point.

Bongalongherb

pancuronium wrote: »

I was going to stay in today but because of this post I'm going shooting pigeons as they come home to roost you can thank your stupid post for forcing my hand!

Calm down son, put the gun away, take 10 deep breaths.

Sam Kade

CK73 wrote: »

I wonder what would happen to all the cows, pigs, sheep and chickens if eating meat and poultry was outlawed?

Well as clueless vegans have said set them free that would be the end of their food source as well as cattle spreading tb and plenty other diseases.

Plryty

LoTR wrote: »

There are obviously many, many more meatless dishes beside rice and lentils, obviously more than I can list here. And the raising of animals for meat causes an insane strain on resources, which could indeed otherwise be used to feed large populations. And it worsens climate change, which has long term negative effects for everyone. If you really are interested in this topic, this is a good site to start:

These issues are never as black and white. There is a diverse amount of variables to account for in environmental vegetarianism. This ranges from the type of vegetable products strain on watering (eg almonds & rice), the carbon emission to process this food which is of much higher standard for human consumption than animal consumption, the carbon emission in the transport of this food, the land altered to grow the crop & its effect on wildlife (eg palm oil endangering orangutangs).

Compare that to a meat eater who sources local meats which use animals to convert inedible grassland biomass to edible meat, from land not suitable for conventional crop-development. Or say in a country like America, a hunter whos taxes for hunting upkeep scientific research of the hunting-land & protection of wild environments both through the use of the land for hunting & culling of animals lacking predators.


It becomes evident pretty fast, that blanket statements don't work.

mister gullible

pancuronium wrote: »

I was going to stay in today but because of this post I'm going shooting pigeons as they come home to roost you can thank your stupid post for forcing my hand!

I do some hunting myself but can still understand how someone might be averse to meat eating, especially from factory farmed sources such as most pork and chicken. What is hard to understand is why someone's comments on meat eating would inspire anyone else to go out and start shooting pigeons during the nesting season (when it's illegal in any case). Or maybe you're just taunting the OP.

GreatDefector

Trigger Happy wrote: »

What in the constitution needs amending here? Which section?!

Section 2 of the offences against the steak

Bongalongherb

Don't kill birds, as they have something I will never have of which I'd love... And that's the ability to fly.

eternal

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The boiling of live lobsters is a bit unsavoury, why don't they just keep them alive and then when it's ready for supper just euthanize them. Did you ever hear the screams from the lobster when put into boiling water ? poor little crustaceans.

It's not screaming. It's the steam entering the shell.

Sam Kade

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Don't kill birds, as they have something I will never have of which I'd love... And that's the ability to fly.

Did you ever hear of aeroplanes and helicopters

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Don't kill birds, as they have something I will never have of which I'd love... And that's the ability to fly.

Some species are remarkably intelligent animals too, use tools, cooperate, have what might pass for language. I'm totally creeped out by birds but I do like watching crows and stuff from a safe distance.

TAZ32

LoTR wrote: »

My dear Irish friends,

Seeing as you like referendums so much, and like "setting things right," I am just wondering when you will have a Yes/No referendum on whether brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings is something the Irish people will continue to support and strongly engage with, or stand up against?

Will the Irish be the first people in the world to criminalize the brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings (and purchasing such things)....or does the Irish people's definition of mercy not extend to other sentient beings?

When will this referendum be held? And what would you vote for? Will people one day gather with flags in Dublin Castle to celebrate the fall of brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings? Will one day the Irish people set an example for the world? Or will nothing ever convince you to open up your heart to those that cannot speak for themselves?

"Earthlings" with Joaquin Phoenix is a fantastic documentary about this issue.

Animals are farmed and bred to be on the table. Its not a little fairy world where everything runs around happily and free, cattle have better standards of living here than the likes of the u.s. Plus their meat is tasty, so wont be outlawed. So go back to your jam jar with liver.

catallus

Bongalongherb wrote: »

...Did you ever hear the screams from the lobster when put into boiling water ? poor little crustaceans.

Lobsters have no throat or vocal cords.

The sound is air being squeezed from under their shell.

http://kitchen-myths.com/2011/03/31/lobsters-scream-with-pain-when-boiled/

ThinkProgress

LoTR wrote: »

There are obviously many, many more meatless dishes beside rice and lentils, obviously more than I can list here. And the raising of animals for meat causes an insane strain on resources, which could indeed otherwise be used to feed large populations. And it worsens climate change, which has long term negative effects for everyone. If you really are interested in this topic, this is a good site to start:


And very much within the story of capitalism and free-trade movements, the affluent populations amass their fortunes on the backs of the poor, leading to an ever-increasing world wage gap, where the minority live like kings, while the majority suffer. The system obviously makes meat an attractive option for those who can afford it - by making sure the disconnect between the meat on the plate and truth of how it got there is maintained.

Since I can post links now, here is a masterpiece scene about this disconnect from a very beautiful movie called Samsara: [UR]h//vi-me-o./732-34-721[/URL] - it doesn't even show the real graphic nature of slaughterhouses, it's more about the process and disconnect.

I explained in another post, that I think we are an adaptable creature. Capable of sustaining ourselves on different foods / diets.

We have developed that way out of necessity. Just look at overpopulated regions to see what I mean... But there is a difference between eating for necessity and doing so for optimal health.

But you are talking about some VERY hefty changes. Bringing down capitalism? How?

And you've also got to address the population crisis... because that's the reason we have capitalism and the rich/poor divide. (a desire to escape the misery of poverty / malnourishment / bad health)

Humans have a natural desire to rise above the flock.

So you need to attack this problem from many different angles... it's not as simple as saying "everybody stop eating meat - it's cruel"

You need better food choices for the billions of poor. But also why do you think traditionally that rich people eat more meat? It's not just because it tastes good. It goes deeper than that!

There is evidence that too much vegetation can cause damage to our digestive system. We certainly need those to a degree, but we should not sustain ourselves purely on them.

Agriculture made plants easier to digest... ok granted we probably went a bit too far in the opposite direction with high fructose corn syrup etc... but things like bread and cereals were seen as being more efficient than raw vegetation. (and easier on our guts)

Meat is fully digested by the human body, and also contains fibrous like material. Fat also aids in digestion too. It's a lie that we need HUGE amounts of plant matter to have healthy digestion - there are books and studies that back this up!

btw - nobody's eyes are shut about animal slaughter. I've lived in rural areas for many years... we certainly can do better when it comes to animal treatment - but my eyes are wide open.

I just don't see any big interesting solutions coming from you. But lots of finger waving and rightious indignation!

coastwatch

LoTR wrote: »

Will the Irish be the first people in the world to criminalize the brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings (and purchasing such things)....or does the Irish people's definition of mercy not extend to other sentient beings?

We could only hope for 2nd place now, beaten to it by the Indian's Maharashtra
State,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-31712369

No Big Macs on the menu in Mumbai.

CK73

catallus wrote: »

Lobsters have no throat or vocal cords.

The sound is air being squeezed from under their shell.

http://kitchen-myths.com/2011/03/31/lobsters-scream-with-pain-when-boiled/

That doesn't stop the method being inhumane. I was aware of the screaming thing not being screaming, but it does provoke a huge feeling of guilt for some I'm sure and I bet they would be if they could.

CK73

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I explained in another post, that I think we are an adaptable creature. Capable of sustaining ourselves on different foods / diets.

We have developed that way out of necessity. Just look at overpopulated regions to see what I mean... But there is a difference between eating for necessity and doing so for optimal health.

But you are talking about some VERY hefty changes. Bringing down capitalism? How?

And you've also got to address the population crisis... because that's the reason we have capitalism and the rich/poor divide. (a desire to escape the misery of poverty / malnourishment / bad health)

Humans have a natural desire to rise above the flock.

So you need to attack this problem from many different angles... it's not as simple as saying "everybody stop eating meat - it's cruel"

You need better food choices for the billions of poor. But also why do you think traditionally that rich people eat more meat? It's not just because it tastes good. It goes deeper than that!

There is evidence that too much vegetation can cause damage to our digestive system. We certainly need those to a degree, but we should not sustain ourselves purely on them.

Agriculture made plants easier to digest... ok granted we probably went a bit too far in the opposite direction with high fructose corn syrup etc... but things like bread and cereals were seen as being more efficient than raw vegetation. (and easier on our guts)

Meat is fully digested by the human body, and also contains fibrous like material. Fat also aids in digestion too. It's a lie that we need HUGE amounts of plant matter to have healthy digestion - there are books and studies that back this up!

btw - nobody's eyes are shut about animal slaughter. I've lived in rural areas for many years... we certainly can do better when it comes to animal treatment - but my eyes are wide open.

I just don't see any big interesting solutions coming from you. But lots of finger waving and rightious indignation!

I don't think our digestive system adapts that quickly. There are loads of foods my digestive system can't tolerate, with grains being one of them.

I actually don't eat a lot of meat because of that, but that is my digestive system, where other people may tolerate meat a lot better and find it harder to tolerate high levels of veg and grains.

We are all different and all from different geographical locations. I do think that we are governed by our historical location and the kind of farming and foods available to us, as this is where the tolerants levels are built up. You can't just decide to change and not expect some problems.

Bongalongherb

eternal wrote: »

It's not screaming. It's the steam entering the shell.

Tell that to a human when they are getting tortured... Ah sure thats a natural noise that comes from these humans when their life has been squeezed out of them, it's just an anomaly.

Bongalongherb

Sam Kade wrote: »

Did you ever hear of aeroplanes and helicopters

Let me clarify... I mean being able to fly naked without the need for metal encapsulating structures.

rob316

Meat is murder....tasty tasty murder.

CK73

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Let me clarify... I mean being able to fly naked without the need for metal encapsulating structures.

Hand gliding is a pretty good alternative though. I'd love to do that and fly with the eagles, preferably without them pooping on me from a great height.

Bongalongherb

coastwatch wrote: »

We could only hope for 2nd place now, beaten to it by the Indian's Maharashtra
State,
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-31712369

No Big Macs on the menu in Mumbai.

The Mahabarata is a more interesting book. The Vedas.

biko

Welcome to "weird **** referendum weekend" in AH.