Non-Irish voting today

Bob24

neemish wrote: »

Is there any chance that they are New Irish as opposed to non-Irish. Saw loads of people voting today who have become Irish citizens in the past few years

It is definitely non Irish we are talking about here. Have seen on boards a couple of UK (not naturalised Irish) citizens claim they voted yesterday. And I also have first hand experience in seeing several non Irish French citizens added to the registry as allowed to vote for Dail elections and referendums.

stefanovich

neemish wrote: »

Is there any chance that they are New Irish as opposed to non-Irish. Saw loads of people voting today who have become Irish citizens in the past few years

Why would an EU citizen bother to get Irish citizenship?

ION08

stefanovich wrote: »

Why would an EU citizen bother to get Irish citizenship?

Why not?

belfe

stefanovich wrote: »

Why would an EU citizen bother to get Irish citizenship?

Because we are living in Ireland? Is still not my case, but a person aplying for Irish citizenship have been living here for 5 or more years. After this time, they should feel more linked to Ireland than to their native country.

Maybe for us this is not a problem, as we're EU citizens and we have work and residence permission on here, but I think that is always important getting the nationality in the country where you're living, not only for referendums.

ION08

stefanovich wrote: »

Why would an EU citizen bother to get Irish citizenship?

Why wouldn't they? I'm a citizen of two EU countries.

Now is there any chance you could possibly address any of the counter arguments to your ridiculous Original Post instead of asking stupid questions??

stefanovich

ION08 wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? I'm a citizen of two EU countries.

Now is there any chance you could possibly address any of the counter arguments to your ridiculous Original Post instead of asking stupid questions??

What counter arguments? That you don't agree with the law and therefore it's okay to break it?

ION08

stefanovich wrote: »

What counter arguments? That you don't agree with the law and therefore it's okay to break it?

Well how about my counter argument on page 5 for a start

stefanovich

ION08 wrote: »

Hold on a damned second. If sombody that's not an Irish citizen receives a voting card and goes out and votes, why on earth should they be jailed an deported.

Because they broke the law!! Ignorance is no defence. If you are so interested in this country that you want to change its constitution then spend 5 minutes looking up the law.

ION08 wrote: »

Jail the high proportion of scumbag skanger parasites that infest this country before you jail tax paying oridnary residents that are excercising their vote to bring equality to this country.

I am sorry you disagree with the law.

ION08 wrote: »

Or at the very least jail those in charge of the administration for being so lax so as to allow a scenario whereby a non citizen can vote.

Did you ever hear of tackling the root of problem and not the effect?

I'm not sure being bad at your job is breaking the law. If I accidentally left my window open does that make it okay for someone to burgle my house?

belfe

If you have knowledge of a crime, I don´t know why you're not reporting it to the gardai as a good citizen.

belfe

I mean, I'm quite sure that most of the non-Irish know if they can vote in the referendum. Campaign has been everywhere and rules are clear enough.

Maybe you're not completely sure about their citizenship? They could be naturalized citizens. I don't think almost anybody put himself in risk for a vote in a referendum.

Bob24

stefanovich wrote: »

Because they broke the law!! Ignorance is no defence. If you are so interested in this country that you want to change its constitution then spend 5 minutes looking up the law.

Does not excuse the complete incompetency of the government to enforce the law though.

People are being sent pooling cards whereas they never asked for voting rights for referundums or falsly pretended to be Irish. It is a complete joke: they are actually misinforming people about their rights and encouraging them to break the law.

I agree with you someone who is voting and doesn't have the right to is either ignorant of our basic laws or dishonest and should therefore definitely not have a say in how these laws are changed.

But should we instead focus on the fact the government officials who are supposed to safeguard our electoral system are sometimes not better informed (or bothered) about these laws and encouraging foreign nationals to break them?

ION08

stefanovich wrote: »

Because they broke the law!! Ignorance is no defence. If you are so interested in this country that you want to change its constitution then spend 5 minutes looking up the law.


I am sorry you disagree with the law.


I'm not sure being bad at your job is breaking the law. If I accidentally left my window open does that make it okay for someone to burgle my house?

I'm sorry but you are an absolute moron.

You are pointing the finger squarely at the voters and you seem convinced that they are wilfully and knowingly committing electoral fraud. And for this you think manadatory jail time and deportation is in order? Open your eyes to your beautiful city of Limerick, I'm sure you could find plenty of other degenerate parasites that could be jailed instead tax paying EU ordinary residents.

Your analogy of leaving a window open is ridiculous to say the least and highlights your stupidity, why?.. Because an open window would only attract burglars INTENT on crime (intent being the key word here)

How about the analogy I gave, whereby you are given €50 by a government body and you uknowingly go to spend it? ..Going by your logic the government has zero blame and youre making the ASSUMPTION that the person spending it knows its fake (or at least should have gone out of their way to check) and therefore 100% of the blame lies with them and should be jailed for fraud and deprted, completely ignoring the root of the problem. - do you see how stupid that sounds?

Anyway, I hope you figure out what the red button on your Corolla does and why some BMW's dont have badges. :rolleyes:

I look forward to more of your stupid questions being asked on the motors forum.

Bye now.

MathDebater

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Because i had a polling card with my name on it. Why else would i vote????
I think that gives me the right to vote and overrules opinions on boards.ie.

You're not meant to vote in referendums if you're not a citizen. Something went wrong down the line if they issued you with a polling card. The electoral system is a mess.

stefanovich

ION08 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are an absolute moron.

You are pointing the finger squarely at the voters and you seem convinced that they are wilfully and knowingly committing electoral fraud. And for this you think manadatory jail time and deportation is in order? Open your eyes to your beautiful city of Limerick, I'm sure you could find plenty of other degenerate parasites that could be jailed instead tax paying EU ordinary residents.

Your analogy of leaving a window open is ridiculous to say the least and highlights your stupidity, why?.. Because an open window would only attract burglars INTENT on crime (intent being the key word here)

How about the analogy I gave, whereby you are given €50 by a government body and you uknowingly go to spend it? ..Going by your logic the government has zero blame and youre making the ASSUMPTION that the person spending it knows its fake (or at least should have gone out of their way to check) and therefore 100% of the blame lies with them and should be jailed for fraud and deprted, completely ignoring the root of the problem. - do you see how stupid that sounds?

Anyway, I hope you figure out what the red button on your Corolla does and why some BMW's dont have badges. :rolleyes:

I look forward to more of your stupid questions being asked on the motors forum.

Bye now.

I was angry when I heard about it. If it was ignorance then I do not think the penalty should be that severe but if someone is trying to undermine Irish democracy I do not think they should be allowed to stay here. I am sure most would agree.

I find it extremely creepy that you decided to investigate my other posts here and then mention them. Was it in an effort to unsettle me?

I also don't appreciate the personal attack. Don't be so hateful.

Hilly Bill

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

OK - how did you tell...?



As you well know, a passport is not required to be allowed to vote.




Not true. You need to be on the register to vote, but do not need a polling card, the polling card is merely a convenience to voters and the electoral staff

Possession of a polling card does not give you the right to vote, e.g. if it was obtained under false pretences.




Again as you should well know, no-one is required to prove their citizenship at the polling station. Most of the acceptable forms of ID don't even have a picture on them, and all of them, except a passport, say nothing at all about the citizenship of the bearer. Even if a voter presents a foreign passport as ID, it doesn't prove they're not also an Irish citizen.

Im ok so. I had a polling card obtained in a legal manner. I didnt actually go looking for one, i just filled in the forms that came in the door.

stefanovich

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Im ok so. I had a polling card obtained in a legal manner. I didnt actually go looking for one, i just filled in the forms that came in the door.

Filling in forms? In my experience they just come to the door, ask who you want put on the register and that's it. They'll also remove you if they don't like the way you are going to vote.

uck51js9zml2yt

stefanovich wrote: »

Why would an EU citizen bother to get Irish citizenship?

I've had thecsame conversation with my wife. We decided its not worth it and the kids have dual nationality

stefanovich

ION08 wrote: »

Open your eyes to your beautiful city of Limerick, I'm sure you could find plenty of other degenerate parasites that could be jailed instead tax paying EU ordinary residents.

You'll not meet nicer people than Limerick people actually.

I am sorry your equality does not extend to "degenerate parasites".

Hilly Bill

MathDebater wrote: »

You're not meant to vote in referendums if you're not a citizen. Something went wrong down the line if they issued you with a polling card. The electoral system is a mess.

Not my problem. If they are kind enough to give me a polling card then i'll make use of it.

Hilly Bill

stefanovich wrote: »

Filling in forms? In my experience they just come to the door, ask who you want put on the register and that's it. They'll also remove you if they don't like the way you are going to vote.

It came in the post, same as the online one posted earlier. Nobody came to the door.

MathDebater

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Not my problem. If they are kind enough to give me a polling card then i'll make use of it.

It is your problem. You're not an Irish citizen so you're not entitled to vote in referendums.

Bob24

MathDebater wrote: »

It is your problem. You're not an Irish citizen so you're not entitled to vote in referendums.

Basically it is everyone's problem and responsibility (the voter's and the government's).

But at the end of the day it is not reasonable to fully blame a foreign national for doing what they are being told to do by the government of the country they live in (by doing this we would be looking at the symptom rather than the cause). The foreign national could have reasonably assumed that the government of the country knows the law better than them.

Jim2007

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So are we saying all those people on the news flying home to Ireland from living abroad to vote on the Ref are breaking the law ?

Ludo wrote: »

That does seem to be the case. Haven't seen any evidence that they are allowed to vote. It is fairly clear from the citizens info website though that they are not allowed to vote.

No you are still entitled to vote if you have been gone for less than 18 months.

ION08

stefanovich wrote: »

I was angry when I heard about it. If it was ignorance then I do not think the penalty should be that severe but if someone is trying to undermine Irish democracy I do not think they should be allowed to stay here. I am sure most would agree.

I find it extremely creepy that you decided to investigate my other posts here and then mention them. Was it in an effort to unsettle me?

I also don't appreciate the personal attack. Don't be so hateful.

I was also angry when I wrote that post and apologise for the "personal attack"

I voted as a citizen, however, my [heterosexual:D] partner who is an EU citizen also voted fully believing she was entitled to vote seeing as she received a voting card, reasonable logic given it was government issued, she never intended to mislead anyone or commit "electoral fraud" (again, point your finger at the cause of the problem not at the effect of the problem)

Your suggestion that she should be jailed and deported was not only ridiculous but also offensive.

As for investigating your posts, I recognized your name from the motoring forum here which I read quite often.

And no, my sense of equality does not extended to other less scrupulous members of society - maybe you should put your open window analogy into practice and see if yours does.

stefanovich

ION08 wrote: »

I was also angry when I wrote that post and apologise for the "personal attack"

I voted as a citizen, however, my [heterosexual:D] partner who is an EU citizen also voted fully believing she was entitled to vote seeing as she received a voting card, reasonable logic given it was government issued, she never intended to mislead anyone or commit "electoral fraud" (again, point your finger at the cause of the problem not at the effect of the problem)

Your suggestion that she should be jailed and deported was not only ridiculous but also offensive.

As for investigating your posts, I recognized your name from the motoring forum here which I read quite often.

And no, my sense of equality does not extended to other less scrupulous members of society - maybe you should put your open window analogy into practice and see if yours does.

Thanks for the apology. She obviously made an innocent mistake. My comment was more focused on people who voted willingly. I hope you did inform her after the fact that she shouldn't vote in future referenda and if she really does want to then she should seek citizenship.

Ludo

Jim2007 wrote: »

No you are still entitled to vote if you have been gone for less than 18 months.

Source? Don't mean to be rude but I am genuinely curious about this.

Icepick

So much nonsense itt.

You are not allowed to vote if you are not an Irish citizen.

Those colleagues if the story isn't completely made up came to the polling station, showed their non-Irish proof of identity and were turned away.

Hilly Bill

MathDebater wrote: »

It is your problem. You're not an Irish citizen so you're not entitled to vote in referendums.

Trust me, it's no problem to me. The powers that be said i could, so unless you are in a position to overrule them I'll be voting everytime i get a polling card.

stefanovich

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Trust me, it's no problem to me. The powers that be said i could, so unless you are in a position to overrule them I'll be voting everytime i get a polling card.

Thanks for blatantly disobeying the law. Don't worry it won't be enforced.

Bob24

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Trust me, it's no problem to me. The powers that be said i could, so unless you are in a position to overrule them I'll be voting everytime i get a polling card.

The government is a mess and should not be sending you polling cards for this type of elections (and their blatant incompetency is the main issue here), but the fact that you intend to keep voting even though you know you are not entitled to still is illegal and a problem on your side.

You know this, and and while you are proudly boasting about it on an anonymous website you would never say it if your actual name was displayed next to your post.