Non-Irish voting today

stefanovich

Better half said that several non-Irish people at her work voted today. They were under the false impression that after 5 years they could if they were EU citizens. This is totally incorrect.

Presumably this is a criminal offence. If it was up to me it would be mandatory jail time followed by deportation.

The security of our electoral system is a joke.

PopePalpatine

I guess it balances out all of that Legatus money. :pac:

BoJack Horseman

My American wife voted today, as she did at the presidential & 2011 general election.

She never registered herself.
Many years ago, a council worker went door to door collecting names for the electoral roll.

Verification is a joke alright.

nc19

My wife wasn't asked for proof of ID. .......

stefanovich

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

My American wife voted today, as she did at the presidential & 2011 general election.

She never registered herself.
Many years ago, a council worker went door to door collecting names for the electoral roll.

Verification is a joke alright.

Does she know it's electoral fraud and can carry severe penalties?

Sheldons Brain

stefanovich wrote: »

Better half said that several non-Irish people at her work voted today. They were under the false impression that after 5 years they could if they were EU citizens. This is totally incorrect.

Presumably this is a criminal offence. If it was up to me it would be mandatory jail time followed by deportation.

The security of our electoral system is a joke.

The register should record if a person is Irish/EU/or non EU, but as you say record keeping is not good.

fed up sick and tired

stefanovich wrote: »

Better half said that several non-Irish people at her work voted today. They were under the false impression that after 5 years they could if they were EU citizens. This is totally incorrect.

Presumably this is a criminal offence. If it was up to me it would be mandatory jail time followed by deportation.

The security of our electoral system is a joke.

I wonder about your vehemence in relation to the punishment, since it is out of all proportion to the seriousness with which the state views the crime.

Why so extreme ?

stefanovich

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

I wonder about your vehemence in relation to the punishment, since it is out of all proportion to the seriousness with which the state views the crime.

Why so extreme ?

Okay, in the UK you can get 5 years in prison. Someone making a mockery of our democracy and you think it's a minor thing?

fed up sick and tired

stefanovich wrote: »

Okay, in the UK you can get 5 years in prison. Someone making a mockery of our democracy and you think it's a minor thing?

But first you said they were under a false impression ? Now you're saying they're making a mockery of our democracy ?

They're two very different things, even if ignorance of the law is no defence.

What makes a mockery of the system, and it's no minor thing, is the people who are charged with protecting it, being so cavalier about it.

But you didn't ask for them to be given mandatory jail time, did you ?

You do want mandatory jail time for foreigners as well as deportation.

Why did you just focus on one side of the equation , the arguably less culpable side by your first account ?


And by the way, what reason do you have to believe that I think it a minor thing ?

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

Better half said that several non-Irish people at her work voted today. They were under the false impression that after 5 years they could if they were EU citizens. This is totally incorrect.

Presumably this is a criminal offence. If it was up to me it would be mandatory jail time followed by deportation.

The security of our electoral system is a joke.

I see the no side are getting their excuses in early.

BoJack Horseman

stefanovich wrote: »

Does she know it's electoral fraud and can carry severe penalties?

Yup.

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

My American wife voted today, as she did at the presidential & 2011 general election.

why?

fed up sick and tired

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see the no side are getting their excuses in early.

What do you mean ?

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

My American wife voted today, as she did at the presidential & 2011 general election.

She never registered herself.
Many years ago, a council worker went door to door collecting names for the electoral roll.

do they have different marks for non-citizens on role?

Paramite Pie

Well this is disapointing....

While many probably do have Citizenship it sounds way too easy to register. Voting Registers should record somone's status more clearly.

Is it possible the result could be challenged on these grounds??

stefanovich

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

But first you said they were under a false impression ? Now you're saying they're making a mockery of our democracy ?

They're two very different things, even if ignorance of the law is no defence.

What makes a mockery of the system, and it's no minor thing, is the people who are charged with protecting it, being so cavalier about it.

But you didn't ask for them to be given mandatory jail time, did you ?

You do want mandatory jail time for foreigners as well as deportation.

Why did you just focus on one side of the equation , the arguably less culpable side by your first account ?


And by the way, what reason do you have to believe that I think it a minor thing ?

ignorance of the law is no defence. I am pretty sure this rumour was spread by people wanting to up the yes vote.

JayRoc

stefanovich wrote: »

Better half said that several non-Irish people at her work voted today. They were under the false impression that after 5 years they could if they were EU citizens. This is totally incorrect.

Presumably this is a criminal offence. If it was up to me it would be mandatory jail time followed by deportation.

The security of our electoral system is a joke.

I love the way you phrase this, almost as if they just got it in their head that they could simply wander up and vote.

You say they were under the impression they were entitled to vote.
Someone put them on the electoral register. Maybe blame that person?

johnnyskeleton

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see the no side are getting their excuses in early.

Mod: Not really on topic.

GerardKeating

expectationlost wrote: »

do they have different marks for non-citizens on role?

Yes.

BoJack Horseman

expectationlost wrote: »

do they have different marks for non-citizens on role?

Yes & when she first lived here & registered to vote that was her status: local council elections only.

Shortly after we moved house a woman from the council called round taking names to update the register, no clarification or ID sought.... Just a name & DOB & she moved on.

Better my wife participate than the 30-40% of paddies who couldn't be arsed.

Timberrrrrrrr

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

What do you mean ?

This

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Well this is disapointing....

While many probably do have Citizenship it sounds way too easy to register. Voting Registers should record somone's status more clearly.

Is it possible the result could be challenged on these grounds??

It happened after the Scottish referendum where their were claims of vote rigging and such and if the no side lose we will hear the same arguments.

fed up sick and tired

stefanovich wrote: »

ignorance of the law is no defence. I am pretty sure this rumour was spread by people wanting to up the yes vote.

Why are you pretty sure of that ? What evidence have you to back that assertion up ?

I'd also like to know of which nationality are these non-Irish voters you are speaking of, please ? And why you think they are 'yes' voters ?

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Yes & when she first lived here & registered to vote that was her status: local council elections only.

Shortly after we moved house a woman from the council called round taking names to update the register, no clarification or ID sought.... Just a name & DOB & she moved on.

Better she participate than the 30-40% of paddies who couldn't be arsed.

you are kidding right if she's not a citizen she can't vote your opening up the vote to be challenged in court


why would you allow council person to walk away without being clear on her position

Hilly Bill

stefanovich wrote: »

Does she know it's electoral fraud and can carry severe penalties?

I'm not Irish and have voted in every election and referendum in the last 18 years. I filled out all the forms, got a polling card and voted.
It seems that your issue is with non irish voting not the legal side of it.

bmwguy

I have 2 votes. One in my hometown and 1 where I live now. 3 miles apart. When I mentioned this to some people 2 others said they also did, local enough to each other too

expectationlost

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I'm not Irish and have voted in every election and referendum in the last 18 years. I filled out all the forms, got a polling card and voted.

why would you vote in an election you are not eligible to vote in?

darkpagandeath

Irish citizens may vote at every election and referendum;
British citizens may vote at Dáil elections, European elections and local elections;
Other European Union (EU) citizens may vote at European and local elections*
Non-EU citizens may vote at local elections only.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

Jim2007

stefanovich wrote: »

Okay, in the UK you can get 5 years in prison. Someone making a mockery of our democracy and you think it's a minor thing?

If it was deliberate you might have a point, but as you have already pointed out it was a mistake on their part.

fed up sick and tired

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I'm not Irish and have voted in every election and referendum in the last 18 years. I filled out all the forms, got a polling card and voted.
It seems that your issue is with non irish voting not the legal side of it.

I agree with you that the poster is in danger of appearing hostile to voters on the basis that they are not Irish.

expectationlost

bmwguy wrote: »

I have 2 votes. One in my hometown and 1 where I live now. 3 miles apart. When I mentioned this to some people 2 others said they also did, local enough to each other too

Correction of Details

If you are on the draft Register of Electors but your details are incorrect you may claim to have a correction made by completing an application form RFA1

.
https://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA1_English_Form.pdf

BoJack Horseman

expectationlost wrote: »

you are kidding right if she's not a citizen she can't vote your opening up the vote to be challenged in court

I look forward to every ballot since 2008 being overturned on account of Mrs BoJack Horseman.

why would you allow council person to walk away without being clear on her position

Because I assumed they knew she wasn't Irish because .... she was already on the CoCo register!

..... And also (not wanting to sound too churlish) I couldn't care!
Its been nearly a decade & the federales' haven't apprehended her yet!

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I look forward to every ballot since 2008 being overturned on account of Mrs BoJack Horseman.



Because I assumed they knew she wasn't Irish because .... she was already on the CoCo register!

..... And also (not wanting to sound too churlish) I couldn't care!
Its been nearly a decade & the federales' haven't apprehended her yet!

Hilly Bill

I hope that all those returning home from abroad to vote so 2 blokes can get married will do the same at the general election when real change is needed.

Hilly Bill

expectationlost wrote: »

why would you vote in an election you are not eligible to vote in?

Because i had a polling card with my name on it. Why else would i vote????
I think that gives me the right to vote and overrules opinions on boards.ie.

BoJack Horseman

expectationlost wrote: »

Indeed.

So, the Lisbon treaty rolls around & she gets a polling card.

The council obviously modified her record to 'full Irish'.

And that was that.

expectationlost

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Because i had a polling card with my name on it. Why else would i vote????
I think that gives me the right to vote and overrules opinions on boards.ie.

does your own opinion not count http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95589622&postcount=24 you said you are not Irish and by that I presume you mean you are not an Irish citizen.

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Indeed.

So, the Lisbon treaty rolls around & she gets a polling card.

The council obviously modified her record to 'full Irish'.

why?

BoJack Horseman

expectationlost wrote: »

why?

You should probably ask Wicklow CoCo why they modified her eligibility status.

Hilly Bill

expectationlost wrote: »

are you guys trolling are we in a joke forum?

What? foreigners can't post on here now?

Jim2007

bmwguy wrote: »

I have 2 votes. One in my hometown and 1 where I live now. 3 miles apart. When I mentioned this to some people 2 others said they also did, local enough to each other too

You don't have two votes, your on two registries - you are still only entitled to vote once!

I don't know how it works now as I'm a long way from Irish politics. But 30 yeas a go I acted as a candidate's agent and we had watch lists of people who were listed on more the one register!

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You should probably ask Wicklow CoCo why they modified her eligibility status.

I presume because you didn't inform them when the council worker called round.

Ludo

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I hope that all those returning home from abroad to vote so 2 blokes can get married will do the same at the general election when real change is needed.

Why? They are all breaking the law by voting today.

Hilly Bill

Ludo wrote: »

Why? They are all breaking the law by voting today.

How?

View

stefanovich wrote: »

Better half said that several non-Irish people at her work voted today. They were under the false impression that after 5 years they could if they were EU citizens. This is totally incorrect.

Presumably this is a criminal offence. If it was up to me it would be mandatory jail time followed by deportation.

The security of our electoral system is a joke.

There is far greater voting fraud going on amongst Irish people than among the EU citizens who are here.

The only place you are entitled to be registered to vote and vote is where you live (save for third level students who apparently find that too challenging to manage). Yet everyone knows than people are committing voter fraud by voting at places they lived years ago and in some cases with at their parents years after they left home). Hell there are posts of people returning to Ireland from where they live abroad to vote and no one cares about that.

Beside that the number of long-term resident EU citizens who will commit voter fraud by voting (and be allowed to vote by officials) pales into insignificance.

Ludo

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

Overseas voters
If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters list).

I'm all for a yes outcome but not too keen on this #hometovote thing.

BoJack Horseman

expectationlost wrote: »

I presume because you didn't inform them when the council worker called round.

I know.... I made the mistake in expecting an Irish civil servant to accurately use the information that they already had.

Live & learn eh!

expectationlost

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I know.... I made the mistake in expecting an Irish civil servant to accurately use the information that they already had.

Live & learn eh!

you could have helped her out and made it clear, it sounds like you didn't really want to, now your wife is voting, apparently illegally.

Jim2007

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Because i had a polling card with my name on it. Why else would i vote????
I think that gives me the right to vote and overrules opinions on boards.ie.

It not an offence to be on register nor receive a polling card, but neither of those things give you the right to vote. But you do commit an offence when you stand in from of a polling officer an apply for a voting paper and that is why the polling officer has the power to instruct a guard to arrest you (note the guard has no choice in the matter), require you take the oath etc...

expectationlost

GerardKeating wrote: »

Yes.

what kind of mark would like to see and example of that.

oh its these letters ? from checktheregister.ie

[*] Election Type
Entitlement to vote, based on citizenship outlined below:

Local Elections /European Elections /Dail Elections /Referendum or Presidential Election
Resident Irish citizens (P)* YES YES YES YES
Resident British citizens (D)* YES YES YES NO
Resident EU citizens (E)* YES YES NO NO
Resident Non-EU citizens (L)* YES NO NO NO

http://www.galway.ie/ereg/details.aspx?v=LV&id=ScafQ8fC99Y%3D

Jim2007

expectationlost wrote: »

you could have helped her out and made it clear, it sounds like you didn't really want to, now your wife is voting, apparently illegally.

Guess who will be in the dog house if she ever gets caught! Being taken away from the polling station in handcuffs by the Gardai is not something most wives are likely to let slide

BoJack Horseman

expectationlost wrote: »

you could have helped her out and made it clear,

Or, I couldn't give a sh*t.
Its not my job to help the inept do theirs

now your wife is voting, apparently illegally.

We await the police sirens & supreme court challenges.