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S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Not Read the Books

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    #122
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    The Kingsguard are just itching to get at the Faith Militant. For the second time they were ready to clear house until the well meaning but feeble Tommen called them off.

    Cersei is a dangerous fool dragging her house toward ruination. It makes us appreciate the political genius of Tywin to see how quickly things fell apart when he died.

    Bronn's weary "ffs" at the dramatic appearance of the slightly ridiculous Sandsnakes was the highlight of the show. I wonder if it was scripted?

    Good fight, actually. Seemed to me that Bronn was trying to subdue the girl without killing her (as with Tristan) but finding her tougher than expected. This underestimation meant she could survive him briefly. For Jaime, sadly, it's more a case of surviving than fighting. He's always on the backfoot now, retreating and defensive. A far cry from the aggressive style we saw in season one when he destroyed Jory and took on Ned. Seems to be improving though and learning to use the metal hand to his advantage.

    The season's been slow moving so far and short on action but I think the acting has been as strong as ever. A lot of the dialogues have been excellent particularly Mance vs Jon, Roose vs Ramsey, Barristan vs. Dany, Tyrion vs. Varys and Jorah, Oleanna vs. Cersei, Stannis vs. everyone.

    It's been low key so far but a long way from terrible. They're building characters. Can't shake the feeling they are building toward something massive.


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    #123
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Right Turn Clyde wrote: »
    Finally, Sansa's rape made for uncomfortable viewing, but it's in keeping with how this series views its female characters.

    Agreed, any portrayal of rape is going to be uncomfortable. But it's more in keeping with the treatment of females in medieval, feudal society than with how the writers view their female characters. The often grim treatment of even noble women in the show is rooted more in realism than misogyny.


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    #124
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    Vojera wrote: »
    I actually really love Cersei's character, she's always interesting to watch and contrary to what Tywin and/or Tyrion said, I think she was quite clever in earlier storylines. But since Joffrey's death she seems to have lost her grip and there's a desperation to her actions that wasn't there before.

    It's rare for Cersei to tickle my funnybone, but I did get a laugh an episode or two ago, when Pycelle observed that "...the Small Council appears to be getting even smaller..." and she hissed back "Not small enough..." Brilliant.

    Take the hint old man, this is not a good time to drawing that kind of attention to yourself.


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    #125
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Just on Pycelle, not many people are familiar with this deleted scene


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    #126
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    storker wrote: »
    It's rare for Cersei to tickle my funnybone, but I did get a laugh an episode or two ago, when Pycelle observed that "...the Small Council appears to be getting even smaller..." and she hissed back "Not small enough..." Brilliant.

    Take the hint old man, this is not a good time to drawing that kind of attention to yourself.
    Ha, reminds me of this pic.


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    #127
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,838 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    storker wrote: »
    Either Tywin or Tyrion (possibly both) remarked once that Cersei isn't as clever as she thinks she is. She seems to be busy proving that point.

    she's clearly not that smart, she can barely plot one move ahead. She has now unleashed an army of religious nutcases in the city to punish immoral behaviour... hey Cersei, remember sleeping with your brother and bearing 3 of his kids? It's not exactly top secret information either, I'm sure the High Sparrow is well aware of this.


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    #128
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    SoupyNorman wrote: »
    Ah yeah, I think the writing is on the wall that the Sparrows will round on Cersei or maybe they will kill Tommen as a product of incest.

    Ah ya my point is that people are saying that the Tyrells will use this "card" to get revenge on Lannisters
    I just feel that Sparrows surely already know so this information will hardly be a bombshell to them


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    #129
    chasmcb
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭chasmcb


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Ah ya my point is that people are saying that the Tyrells will use this "card" to get revenge on Lannisters
    I just feel that Sparrows surely already know so this information will hardly be a bombshell to them

    I'm assuming Cersei, unlike Tommen the Wuss, would not hesitate to call on the King's Guard if the Sparrows actually tried to arrest her. That's assuming her status as Queen Mother entitles her to issue orders to them and they're not exclusively the king's troop (didn't she issue commands to them previously at various times, like when Ned Stark got scuppered?)


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    #130
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    The religious court scene really didn't sit well with me at all.

    Sure the "king" is weak and ineffective and the religious nutjobs have the power given to them by Cersei but it still seemed unrealistic.


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    #131
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,838 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    The religious court scene really didn't sit well with me at all.

    Sure the "king" is weak and ineffective and the religious nutjobs have the power given to them by Cersei but it still seemed unrealistic.

    Monarchs have used religious inquisitors to bring down rivals in the past - the Spanish Inquistions, Thomas Cromwell etc...


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    #132
    Degag
    Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Degag


    Think people are getting slightly carried away.... Yeah, its been slightly slow this season but its still miles ahead of most other tv series' out there.


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    #133
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Slow so far.
    Wasn't there talk of a massacre or two along the Red Wedding lines towards the end of the season (spoilered just in case)
    .


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    #134
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Monarchs have used religious inquisitors to bring down rivals in the past - the Spanish Inquistions, Thomas Cromwell etc...

    Yes. But they very rarely used them to bring about their own downfall.

    Which is why having the inquisitors drag of the reigning Monarch was a little odd at such an informal hearing. It just felt wrong.

    I get that cersi is really the power and that the king is ineffective, but it still seems odd the Queen couldnt call on her own guards to prevent her being carried off to a jail cell.

    Just curious thats all. I wont quit watching, its just that combined with the awful fight scene later, and the general dullness of this season, I find I'm getting more critical.

    As my GF said last sunday; EIGHT THOUSAND years guarding the wall and they havent figured out how to put glass in the windows.


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    #135
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    Degag wrote: »
    Think people are getting slightly carried away.... Yeah, its been slightly slow this season but its still miles ahead of most other tv series' out there.

    In previous years, yes. But not this year. Personally, I think it's past its best. It simply cannot handle the amount of different plot strands it has going. I feel sorry for the writers because it's obviously very hard to find the right balance. Clearly they can't focus on all the characters each week, yet abandoning characters for an episode or two isn't working either.

    And speaking of abandoning characters, where's Bran? We're over halfway through the new season and there's been no mention of him. Even worse, we haven't heard anything from Rickon in what, 20 episodes? Perhaps that works in the books, but it simply does not work on television. You're being asked to care about characters who then disappear for hours of screen time. Despite the series' celebrated moral ambiguity, the Starks are still the 'good guys', and the way Bran, and particularly Rickon are being handled is deeply unsatisfactory. You can tell that Bran has a major role to play, and I suspect that when he does come back he'll be back with a bang, but none of that changes the fact that one of the most interesting narratives of the last season has been totally ignored this time around.

    The show just isn't very well written. Yes, the dialogue is quite sharp, and there's been some tremendous set pieces, but the introduction of so many new characters has sucked the life out of the show, as it done with the books. Admittedly I'm not up to date with the novels, but I can already see Martin struggling with the weight of everything he's created, and apparently it gets even worse, which doesn't bode very well for readers and viewers of the series.


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    #136
    YurOK2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭YurOK2


    I'm so puzzled by all the backlash over the Ramsey/Sansa storyline.
    Ramsey has been torturing folks for a long time. He has been torturing Theon/Reek for what, 2 seasons now?
    Did people think that despite all of this, he was going to have a traditional bedding ceremony with Sansa, rose petals, candles and essential oils? I mean, did people really not see this coming?


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    #137
    YurOK2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭YurOK2


    Right Turn Clyde wrote: »
    In previous years, yes. But not this year. Personally, I think it's past its best. It simply cannot handle the amount of different plot strands it has going. I feel sorry for the writers because it's obviously very hard to find the right balance. Clearly they can't focus on all the characters each week, yet abandoning characters for an episode or two isn't working either.

    And speaking of abandoning characters, where's Bran? We're over halfway through the new season and there's been no mention of him. Even worse, we haven't heard anything from Rickon in what, 20 episodes? Perhaps that works in the books, but it simply does not work on television. You're being asked to care about characters who then disappear for hours of screen time. Despite the series' celebrated moral ambiguity, the Starks are still the 'good guys', and the way Bran, and particularly Rickon are being handled is deeply unsatisfactory. You can tell that Bran has a major role to play, and I suspect that when he does come back he'll be back with a bang, but none of that changes the fact that one of the most interesting narratives of the last season has been totally ignored this time around.

    The show just isn't very well written. Yes, the dialogue is quite sharp, and there's been some tremendous set pieces, but the introduction of so many new characters has sucked the life out of the show, as it done with the books. Admittedly I'm not up to date with the novels, but I can already see Martin struggling with the weight of everything he's created, and apparently it gets even worse, which doesn't bode very well for readers and viewers of the series.

    Bran and Hodor are definitely not going to be in this season, I'm pretty sure that was announced at the end of last season. Don't know about Rickon.

    Edit - funnily enough I was just scrolling through facebook and this popped up - http://intvseries.com/heres-why-game-of-thrones-season-5-definitely-wont-have-bran-stark


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    #138
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    YurOK2 wrote: »
    Bran and Hodor are definitely not going to be in this season, I'm pretty sure that was announced at the end of last season. Don't know about Rickon.

    That's disappointing. It really is one of the most interesting arcs. I could do with more Bran and less Tyrion, whose terrible accent is matched only by Aiden Gillen's, the only Irish man who can't do an Irish accent (in fairness to him though, he makes an excellent Littlefinger).


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    #139
    SoupyNorman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭SoupyNorman


    Right Turn Clyde wrote: »
    That's disappointing. It really is one of the most interesting arcs. I could do with more Bran and less Tyrion, whose terrible accent is matched only by Aiden Gillen's, the only Irish man who can't do an Irish accent (in fairness to him though, he makes an excellent Littlefinger).


    Woah, you can diss Gillen all you like but dont be talkin' bout Drinkage like that.


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    #140
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    YurOK2 wrote: »
    Edit - funnily enough I was just scrolling through facebook and this popped up - http://intvseries.com/heres-why-game-of-thrones-season-5-definitely-wont-have-bran-stark

    I do remember reading something from Martin before where he said that the various chapters in each book aren't necessarily happening in parallel. So that's a very sound explanation. I don't think it makes for good television, but it seems to be out of their hands. In fact, it looks like another example of the very difficult job the writers have. I disagree with him about Bran's training though. I think it would make for more interesting television than another bare-arse scene, which is put there to make HBO-subcribers feel like they're not wasting their money.


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    #141
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    SoupyNorman wrote: »
    Woah, you can diss Gillen all you like but dont be talkin' bout Drinkage like that.

    Ha, yeah I've had this debate before alright. Look, Tyrion's a great character, and Dinklage has made the role his own, but his accent is… I'll be kind... not good.


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    #142
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,284 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Right Turn Clyde wrote: »
    That's disappointing. It really is one of the most interesting arcs.

    Personally I think it's one of the most boring and I'm in no hurry to see him back. Imo, the show is at its best when it has all the political intrugue stuff going on, and unfortunately when Brann returns we'll end up with a lot more of that warg nonsense instead.


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    #143
    Right Turn Clyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    Zaph wrote: »
    Personally I think it's one of the most boring and I'm in no hurry to see him back. Imo, the show is at its best when it has all the political intrugue stuff going on, and unfortunately when Brann returns we'll end up with a lot more of that warg nonsense instead.

    The political intrigue isn't intriguing enough for me. But I understand your point of view. The series definitely contains an odd paring of ideas, but I guess it makes it somewhat unique. I quite like the fantasy element so clearly I'm going to feel let down when it's cast aside as it currently is.


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    #144
    tipparetops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭tipparetops


    GOT is struggling this season.
    there is just too many average characters and they are dragging it down.
    I know they are trying to stay true to the books, but killing off the strong, better characters was a brave decision but it also could be the undoing of the whole show.

    For example, Anytime they go to the wall I am secretly hoping they have all been wiped out.


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    #145
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Winterfell to the wall isn't a vast distance. I remember Tyrion did it Season 1 along with some thieves and rapists on their way as recruits. And that deserter at the very beginning ran & marched the distance

    In 2-3 weeks (I'm guessing) or less Stannis will be there to sweep away the Boltons.

    So Sansa could be a bride and a widow within a month.

    All this talk about the rape scence and I was thinking about the timing. Just a few weeks later and she may not have gotten married.


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    #146
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    SoupyNorman wrote: »
    Woah, you can diss Gillen all you like but dont be talkin' bout Drinkage like that.

    I've found Tyrion a tad tiresome this season,not near the peaks of previous seasons when he plotting and **oring in Kings Landing.


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    #147
    Roar
    Registered Users Posts: 7,426 ✭✭✭Roar


    tipparetops wrote: »
    GOT is struggling this season.
    there is just too many average characters and they are dragging it down.
    I know they are trying to stay true to the books, but killing off the strong, better characters was a brave decision but it also could be the undoing of the whole show.

    For example, Anytime they go to the wall I am secretly hoping they have all been wiped out.

    I disagree massively with that. The wall scenes have been my favourite this season.


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    #148
    Roar
    Registered Users Posts: 7,426 ✭✭✭Roar


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Monarchs have used religious inquisitors to bring down rivals in the past - the Spanish Inquistions, Thomas Cromwell etc...

    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

    Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear.


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    #149
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,307 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Degag wrote: »
    Think people are getting slightly carried away.... Yeah, its been slightly slow this season but its still miles ahead of most other tv series' out there.

    For pretty much all the seasons so far folks have been complaining about slow pacing, bad writing, filler episodes etc.Then the last few episodes kick into gear and its all forgotten about...until the following year when the process repeats itself.
    YurOK2 wrote: »
    I'm so puzzled by all the backlash over the Ramsey/Sansa storyline.
    Ramsey has been torturing folks for a long time. He has been torturing Theon/Reek for what, 2 seasons now?
    Did people think that despite all of this, he was going to have a traditional bedding ceremony with Sansa, rose petals, candles and essential oils? I mean, did people really not see this coming?

    Id say half of it is to generate publicity for the show.


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    #150
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,284 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Roar wrote: »
    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

    Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear.

    And ruthless efficiency!


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    #151
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    seligehgit wrote: »
    I've found Tyrion a tad tiresome this season,not near the peaks of previous seasons when he plotting and **oring in Kings Landing.

    Not being smart but that's kind of the point. Tyrion in Kings Landing was a Lord, a Lannister Lord at that. He was one of the best plotters in a city full of plotting and scheming and he knew it. But right now he's far out of his comfort zone. Just a dwarf out in the wild. What worked for him in Kings Landing, his intelligence and pragmatism, aren't worth a shít to him when he's dealing with the folks he's dealing with now.


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