[Looking to buy a] Hybrid / Electric

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well had another day's driving yesterday and it went much better.

I didn't think to zero the trip counter, but after totaling it up I think I did about 39-40 miles and had bang on 50% left on the battery by the end.

I'm taking the test drive car back tonight but I've seen enough to decide that I'm going to take the plunge within the next few weeks.

So any advice from you folks about the next step? I need to get a charging point installed at home. I know a few sparks who can do the work, but what kind of station do I need and where do I get it? What sort of price should I be expecting? Are they cheaper to buy in the UK? I live right on the border so that wouldn't be difficult.

I understand that I need to apply to the ESB for permission to install one and then they issue me with an access card or something?

There are a few guides on the esb website but they seem to be more aimed at new leaf buyers, not second hand.

Great, excellent news. Soon to be another EV owner on the road !

You can get any electrician to install the home charge point (called EVSE) But you need to get the EVSE and I'm sure you'll be able to get them up north no problem.

So what are you going for the XE, SV or SVE ?

As long as you buy knowing the limitations and know sooner or later you'll have to queue at charge points then if you did all your sums, you should be fine .

DrPhilG

Deleted User wrote: »

So what are you going for the XE, SV or SVE ?

Are those the other names for the basic, Acenta and Tekna? Or is that what they're sold as in Ireland?

It'll most likely be the mid range Acenta/SV. The extra bits in the Tekna sound great, but not worth the extra few grand that it would cost.

I've been test driving a mid range one but it's cream with the cream interior and I don't like either. The dealer says he has a 2013 black Acenta with the dark interior and 17k miles on the clock. We haven't discussed price yet but will probably get around to that this evening when I return the test car.

Regarding the EVSE, is there a particular type/model I should be looking for? Or a spec with regards to charging?

cros13

DrPhilG wrote: »

So any advice from you folks about the next step? I need to get a charging point installed at home. I know a few sparks who can do the work, but what kind of station do I need and where do I get it? What sort of price should I be expecting? Are they cheaper to buy in the UK? I live right on the border so that wouldn't be difficult.

This is my favored charger, it has the european standard type 2 mode 3 socket same as the public chargers have. And it's 32amp with a built-in RCBO: http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/ev-charge-points.html/home-charge-points.html/wallpod-ev:-homecharge-32amp-type-2-universal-socket
Better to order from the UK as the minimum markup I've seen from the Irish Rolec distributors is €100 on top of the UK price. Nuworld charges £30 for shipping to Ireland (or £15 if you use parcelmotel).

Should be no different from fitting an outdoor socket, just make sure that the cable is a minimum of 3x6 and that the breaker is rated for the power draw. Also check the ground is good as the car will refuse to charge if it doesn't detect a ground connection.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I understand that I need to apply to the ESB for permission to install one and then they issue me with an access card or something?

You don't need ESB permission to install a charge point. Just fill out this form to get the eCars access card: https://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/register-for-electric-car-charging-1.jsp?type=Domestic

You'll need a scan of the registration documents for the car in your name. In the meantime see if the garage will loan you a card until yours arrives.

DrPhilG

cros13 wrote: »

You don't need ESB permission to install a charge point. Just fill out this form to get the eCars access card: https://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/register-for-electric-car-charging-1.jsp?type=Domestic

The first question there is "have you applied for an SEAI grant".

I haven't, because I'm buying second hand.

The SEAI grant only applies to new cars doesn't it?

DrPhilG

cros13 wrote: »

This is my favored charger, it has the european standard type 2 mode 3 socket same as the public chargers have. And it's 32amp with a built-in RCBO: http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/ev-charge-points.html/home-charge-points.html/wallpod-ev:-homecharge-32amp-type-2-universal-socket
Better to order from the UK as the minimum markup I've seen from the Irish Rolec distributors is €100 on top of the UK price. Nuworld charges £30 for shipping to Ireland (or £15 if you use parcelmotel).

Sorry if I'm being thick, but do you just use the cable from the boot with that?

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

The first question there is "have you applied for an SEAI grant".

I haven't, because I'm buying second hand.

The SEAI grant only applies to new cars doesn't it?

Just spoke to ESB. I just need to email them with a proof of purchase etc once I have bought the car and they will send me a welcome pack etc.

cros13

DrPhilG wrote: »

The first question there is "have you applied for an SEAI grant".

I haven't, because I'm buying second hand.

The SEAI grant only applies to new cars doesn't it?

Yup, the answer to that question is no.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being thick, but do you just use the cable from the boot with that?

Correct.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

Are those the other names for the basic, Acenta and Tekna? Or is that what they're sold as in Ireland?

It'll most likely be the mid range Acenta/SV. The extra bits in the Tekna sound great, but not worth the extra few grand that it would cost.

I've been test driving a mid range one but it's cream with the cream interior and I don't like either. The dealer says he has a 2013 black Acenta with the dark interior and 17k miles on the clock. We haven't discussed price yet but will probably get around to that this evening when I return the test car.

Regarding the EVSE, is there a particular type/model I should be looking for? Or a spec with regards to charging?

In the U.K Visia is the basic trim, Acenta the mid and Tekna the top.

The Mid spec is pretty decent and you get the touch screen and sat nav and of course carwings.

17 K miles is not a lot considering you relatively low mileage.

DrPhilG

Dealer is asking for £11k for a July 2013 mid range with 17k miles. I'm waiting to see it, but I might be tempted to hold out for a 2014. Would probably be only about £2k more.

Regarding charge points...

Hopefully I'm not being thick again, but is this the one I need?

WallPod EV: HomeCharge (32amp / Type 2 Tethered) | nuWorld Energy

I'm a bit confused about tethered, type 1, type 2 etc...

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

Dealer is asking for £11k for a July 2013 mid range with 17k miles. I'm waiting to see it, but I might be tempted to hold out for a 2014. Would probably be only about £2k more.

Regarding charge points...

Hopefully I'm not being thick again, but is this the one I need?

WallPod EV: HomeCharge (32amp / Type 2 Tethered) | nuWorld Energy

I'm a bit confused about tethered, type 1, type 2 etc...

No, the Leaf has a Type I socket, so if tethered, you need a type 1, if un-tethered you'll need a type 1 to type 2 lead. And to use the public non fast chargers you'll need the type 1 to type 2 lead.

Probably as others have said better to have a non tethered EVSE in case you change the Leaf in a few years all you'll need to do is change the cable.

also if the Leaf has not got the 32 amp charger then you'll pay more for this though it's not a huge amount , otherwise the 16 amp is what you need.

This is what you need for the leaf with standard charger (3.3 Kw 16 amp)

http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/ev-charge-points.html/home-charge-points.html/wallpod-ev-homecharge-16amp-type-2-universal-socket-.html

Try and get the type 1 to type 2 cable from the dealer.

DrPhilG

So I need this for future proofing, as it will be compatible with future versions of the Leaf?
http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/ev-charge-points.html/home-charge-points.html/wallpod-ev:-homecharge-32amp-type-2-universal-socket

And this

http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/type-1-j1772-to-type-2-mennekes-cable---5m

To plug the current a Leaf into that socket?

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

So I need this for future proofing, as it will be compatible with future versions of the Leaf?
http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/ev-charge-points.html/home-charge-points.html/wallpod-ev:-homecharge-32amp-type-2-universal-socket

And this

http://nuworldenergy.co.uk/shop/type-1-j1772-to-type-2-mennekes-cable---5m

To plug the current a Leaf into that socket?

Yes that will do it for the home EVSe and public charge points.

Not sure it's worth spending more on the 32 amp cable though if your leaf won't have the 32 amp charger.

However in order to charge Leaf II you most likely will need another cable, type 2 to type 2, but no one can say. But at least you'll only have to change the cable if you need to.

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes that will do it for the home EVSe and public charge points.

Not sure it's worth spending more on the 32 amp cable though if your leaf won't have the 32 amp charger.

However in order to charge Leaf II you most likely will need another cable, type 2 to type 2, but no one can say. But at least you'll only have to change the cable if you need to.

That's my thinking in getting the 32a, might not be any use to me now, but I do intend to change to a Leaf 2 about a year or 2 after they arrive so might as well spend a few quid extra now to future proof.

That said, the one I have been driving do the past few days did have the 6.6kw charge option.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes that will do it for the home EVSe and public charge points.

Not sure it's worth spending more on the 32 amp cable though if your leaf won't have the 32 amp charger.

However in order to charge Leaf II you most likely will need another cable, type 2 to type 2, but no one can say. But at least you'll only have to change the cable if you need to.

The 32 amp and the 16 amp charger cost the same, so might as well go for the 32. Only additional cost is you need a slightly better grade of cable for the 32 amp, but you should probably be using that 3x6 cable (maybe a euro or two a meter more expensive) for futureproofing anyway.

On the cable to the car, you should get one with the Leaf, i've yet to see one sold without the Type 2 to J1772 cable.. If you are buying one just go for whatever matches the type of charger in the Leaf. Since the Leaf II will probably use Type 2 you'll need a completely different cable for that, but with a socketed 32 amp charger you won't have to replace the charger.

One of the next things on your list OP should be getting a night rate electricity meter. This is free of charge from whoever your current electricity provider is, when you call them up it's also worth asking for a discounted rate as any discount you get will now apply to your car too. It can take up to 7 working days to get the guy out to install the meter.

The Leaf has a built-in timer that can be used to get it to charge only during the night rate hours (11PM to 8AM during the winter and 12PM to 9 AM during the summer).
You'll also have a climate control timer that will warm up or cool down the car off the mains before your commute every weekday morning.
Both charging and climate control can also be triggered at will from a smartphone app.
If you have a timer on your dishwasher or washing machine you could get your bills with the car even lower than they are currently.

I built a little device for my parents kitchen that triggers the climate control through carwings when they press a button on the wall. So they just tap the button 10 minutes before they want to leave and the car is pre-heated for them, including the heated seats.

homer911

cros13 wrote: »

I built a little device for my parents kitchen that triggers the climate control through carwings when they press a button on the wall. So they just tap the button 10 minutes before they want to leave and the car is pre-heated for them, including the heated seats.

Tell us more please..

cros13

homer911 wrote: »

Tell us more please..

Raspberry Pi + pycarwings (https://github.com/haykinson/pycarwings) (Yes there is a python library for carwings!)

You just need to change the authentication URLs to the URLs for the Irish carwings.

I sniffed the traffic from my phone to find the URLs, don't have the patch I made to hand though. I want to add a VFD or OLED display to show the battery status at some point.

pwurple

cros13 wrote: »

Raspberry Pi + pycarwings (https://github.com/haykinson/pycarwings) (Yes there is a python library for carwings!)

You just need to change the authentication URLs to the URLs for the Irish carwings.

I sniffed the traffic from my phone to find the URLs, don't have the patch I made to hand though. I want to add a VFD or OLED display to show the battery status at some point.

Very nice!

I've been planning something similar, but with my phone and an RFID tag. Touch the phone on the tag (I'll stick it someone where in the kitchen) and on comes the climate control. That's the plan anyway. I've the same thing set up for bluetooth on/off in the car. Just need to get around to figuring out the URLs.

cros13

pwurple wrote: »

Very nice!

I've been planning something similar, but with my phone and an RFID tag. Touch the phone on the tag (I'll stick it someone where in the kitchen) and on comes the climate control. That's the plan anyway. I've the same thing set up for bluetooth on/off in the car. Just need to get around to figuring out the URLs.

You could just do that with tasker, call the function from the carwings app.

DrPhilG

I have a question...

How do I get a charging access card, and is there a difference between getting one in the North/UK and getting one here.

I'm considering a road trip to England to buy a Leaf but the question would be getting it home. The ESB tell me that they won't issue a card until I show them proof of purchase for the vehicle but that's no use to me if I do travel to buy one.

cros13

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have a question...

How do I get a charging access card, and is there a difference between getting one in the North/UK and getting one here.

I'm considering a road trip to England to buy a Leaf but the question would be getting it home. The ESB tell me that they won't issue a card until I show them proof of purchase for the vehicle but that's no use to me if I do travel to buy one.

Proof of purchase from the UK would be accepted, but if you just need to get one home you'll need to borrow an access card (either from a garage or from another EV owner). The mainland UK charging network is a bit of a disaster, with 7 different networks with different pricing and incompatible cards. The main cards to get would be ecotricity (Free & Free to use,all they require is a reg, give them an Irish reg and they won't be able to check it, but they'll send the card), Chargemaster Polar (£20 plus usage charges of up to £7.50 for a rapid charge) and CYC (ChargeYourCar, £10 for the card, variable usage prices).

7 pounds 50 for a rapid charge ? about 10 Euro's. I would have to calculate that out but that to me looks a lot more expensive than petrol ! Ridiculous !

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

7 pounds 50 for a rapid charge ? about 10 Euro's. I would have to calculate that out but that to me looks a lot more expensive than petrol ! Ridiculous !

Chargemaster had to try to make the chargers profitable from day 1 because they had no real capital beyond government grants. There aren't enough cars on the road yet so they charge ridiculous amounts.

The £7.50 fee applies regardless of the amount of power delivered as well.

We often forget how privileged we are to have the eCars charging network.

I welcome a fee to charge but not if it costs 10 Euro's for a 10 min top up.

At least some kind of fee might stop miserable cheap gits using chargers for someone who needs them.

cros13

I'd be fully in favor of a ~€2-3 fee for using a rapid charger and then for any power used to be charged to my home MPRN at my domestic rate.

I think that would be the fairest way to do it. A reasonable fee to pay for upkeep of the infrastructure and after that electricity is electricity, it's all the same grid.

googled eyes

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I'm still not sure how green these cars are. How much of our energy comes from renewables in this country? Not even ten percent I'm guessing. The rest is still coming from fossil fuels. Then you've the little matter of the type of battery. Of which the mining and production can be absolutely toxic.

The stats for 2014 aren't out yet but

2013 Energy Regulator pdf




So I've been thinking about buying a Leaf for about 6 months now. . We wouldn't be able to afford PCP ( single wage family) but have an 08 (1.6) car to trade plus around €10000 so this thread has been a great read.

Has anyone had an issue with not having a spare wheel. I was thinking about picking up a space saver if I purchase a Leaf and just keep it in the boot ?

30% renewable is quiet impressive, though the more transport is electrified the demand for electricity will sky rocket, you really can't underestimate the amount of TeraWatt Hrs of electricity needed to electrify transport. It's just mind boggling in fact. Think of cars, buses, trains, trucks, vans etc.

How we can meet this from renewable is anyone's guess. But 30% is still impressive of our current needs. And makes electric cars even more worth while considering the amount of electricity needed in the first place to refine petrol and diesel makes electrics a lot more efficient than people like to believe and this is long before the oil reaches the refinery !!!

googled eyes

Yeah, I was surprised to see it as high as 30% ( all island). Nice to see it keeps rising every year.

On the other side 18.4% and 6.4% from coal and peat is a lot considering how dangerous coal and peat emissions are.

Coal should be banned altogether for home heating also, Where I live I'm poisoned by coal smoke from the estate and most of these houses now have oil installed yet people prefer coal. It's ridiculous.

Renewable energy was supposed to make our bills cheaper but it didn't !

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

On the other side 18.4% and 6.4% from coal and peat is a lot considering how dangerous coal and peat emissions are.

Coal should be banned altogether for home heating also, Where I live I'm poisoned by coal smoke from the estate and most of these houses now have oil installed yet people prefer coal. It's ridiculous.

Renewable energy was supposed to make our bills cheaper but it didn't !

I find it really funny that people are opposed to nuclear power yet burn coal with not insubstantial amounts of uranium and thorium in it in their front rooms.

I did some work for the RPII a couple of years back and their maps had a plume from west to east originating at Moneypoint.