Ukrainian Conflict 2014 - ? (Take II)

Elmer Blooker

Lemming wrote: »

Incidentally, NATO had a mandate to operate in Libya.

What are you talking about? Is "operate" the latest word for war crimes among you lot?

In July 2011, NATO aircraft bombed Libya’s main water supply facility, which provided water to approximately 70 percent of the nation’s population.

Criminals.

http://www.projectcensored.org/8-nato-war-crimes-in-libya/

We now have Russian special forces captured and about to face trials in Kiev .

TWO ex Russian forces. Big difference to the 15,000 "witnessed" by Shaun Walker last August.

Grayson

This should make for an interesting watch.

Count Dooku

Grayson wrote: »

This should make for an interesting watch.

Everybody makes selfies on holidays, why Russians should differ?

Grayson

Count Dooku wrote: »

Everybody makes selfies on holidays, why Russians should differ?

It's not really a holiday when they're working.

Count Dooku

Grayson wrote: »

It's not really a holiday when they're working.

Why they cannot use their expertise while they are on holidays?

BoJack Horseman

Count Dooku wrote: »

Why they cannot use their expertise while they are on holidays?

Too true Boris.

And nothing says "family holiday" like driving a T80 into another country!

IrishTrajan

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Too true Boris.

And nothing says "family holiday" like driving a T80 into another country!

I really want someone to photoshop that Ice Cube film "Are we there yet" to have screen time with Ivan and his three children (the youngest drinking from his father's army-issued vodka bottle) driving the new Armata into Ukraine.

Grayson

Here's the vice reports

BoJack Horseman

Grayson wrote: »

Here's the vice reports

So, what we've known since day 1.

Interesting that the Russian troops were the better behaved than the rebels.

Grayson

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So, what we've known since day 1.

Interesting that the Russian troops were the better behaved than the rebels.

I have to admit it, I smiled at that bit. The "Scum" stealing vodka that had been saved fo the grannie

Gatling

Here's the latest from Vladimir Putin. The last quote is comedy gold

Tension has flared with the West over Moscow's role in the Ukraine crisis, in which pro-Russian separatist forces have seized a large part of the country's east after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014.

"We will be forced to aim our armed forces ... at those territories from where the threat comes," Putin told a joint news conference with Finnish President Sauli Niinisto after talks at a presidential residence outside Moscow.

Putin noted that Russia was most concerned about a long-running NATO project to build a missile defense system in Europe. Moscow has repeatedly expressed opposition to that, and earlier on Tuesday Putin said Russia would add more than 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles to its nuclear arsenal this year.

"It is NATO that is moving towards our border and we aren't moving anywhere," he said.

Dannyboy83

asset seizure has begun in relation to the Yukos ruling in the Hague last year

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/18/us-russia-yukos-idUSKBN0OY1FS20150618
Russia's Interfax news agency said a Belgian arbitration court had ruled in favor of a group of former shareholders about seizing Russian state property worth 1.65 billion euros ($1.9 billion) in Belgium.

An international arbitration court ruled last July that Russia must pay $50 billion for expropriating the assets of Yukos, which was once Russia's biggest oil producer and was run by Mikhail Khodorkovsky, a businessman who used to be Russia's richest man but fell out with the Kremlin.

The GML group of former shareholders who made the claim said then it would be hard to get Moscow to pay, so it started "recognition proceedings" in Britain, the United States, Belgium and France to enforce the decision in their capitals.

Minor unrest in Kaliningrad

http://www.rferl.org/content/rumblings-in-russias-western-outpost-power-vertical-blog/27039567.html
In elections to the local council in Kaliningrad Oblast's Baltisky district, the ruling United Russia party failed to secure even a single seat. Turnout was 47.7 percent, unusually high for a local council election.

The online newspaper Gazeta.ru called it "a crushing defeat" for the party of power.

IrishTrajan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

asset seizure has begun in relation to the Yukos ruling in the Hague last year

If only the Ruskis had annoyed the Irish. I know there's at least one company who wants their hands on those Russian mines here.

Dannyboy83

Some interesting posts from Constantin Gurgdiev's "True Economics" blog:

Constantin Gurgdiev seems to think Russia is in trouble - sanctions or no sanctions

"Russian's economy problem is not crises-linked volatility. Instead, it is structural:"

IMF Tells Kiev: "Default"
..
1) IMF is trying to hedge the risk of future (not current) slippage in the programme and insulate the funds it supplies from being exhausted on debt servicing and repayments. This means the IMF is seeing Ukraine as a huge risk engagement at this stage and is doing preemptive damage control. All the talk about debt sustainability under the IMF programme is a fig leaf of decorum: even if haircuts are delivered as planned, IMF sees big risk of programme being derailed and wants its money ring-fenced.
2) IMF is also trying to re-establish some sort of an independent agency reputation, post-European experience.

Ukraine's default is now a matter of days, unless private bondholders surrender.

Count Dooku

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Constantin Gurgdiev seems to think Russia is in trouble - sanctions or no sanctions

It called Dutch disease

Public_Enema

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

1 armoured brigade.... Spread over 6 nations. ..

No NATO expansion eastwards and no NATO expansion up to Russia's borders. Yes that was the gentleman's agreement the Yanks made with the Russians when the Cold war ended. The Warsaw pact is long dissolved and yet here we have NATO, doing everything it said it wouldn't do. Since there is no Soviet Union anymore and there is no Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe. You have to ask, why does NATO even still exist?

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The bots will jump all over that like its a threat to mother Russia.

I notice the term Bots, seems to be common utterance from those, who seemingly wish to suppress & dissuade an alternative viewpoint. It would be a great day for this site, if the powers that be would dish out the appropriate bans for posters who spew such nonsense imo.

oscarBravo

Public_Enema wrote: »

You have to ask, why does NATO even still exist?

Sez he, while Russia invades its neighbours.

gandalf

NATO existing actually suits Putin, it allows him have a bad guy to propagandise the Russian people with while he and his cronies feather their nests while the populace is distracted.

If Russia respected it's neighbours then NATO would eventually cease to exist, it doesn't hence NATO still has a purpose. And I wouldn't blame the former satellite states of the Soviet Union from joining any organisation that protects them from Russia. That is how NATO is now at Russia's borders, it's an organisation that countries have to join to expand.

IrishTrajan

Public_Enema wrote: »

No NATO expansion eastwards and no NATO expansion up to Russia's borders. Yes that was the gentleman's agreement the Yanks made with the Russians when the Cold war ended.

As opposed to the actual spheres of influence agreement between the US, UK, and USSR, that Stalin broke quite happily? "Waah, the mean boys are doing the exact same thing I did, how unfair, waah!"

M.G.: The topic of “NATO expansion” was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a singe Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either. Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces from the alliance would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement, mentioned in your question, was made in that context. Kohl and [German Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich] Genscher talked about it.
- http://rbth.com/international/2014/10/16/mikhail_gorbachev_i_am_against_all_walls_40673.html)

K-9

Public_Enema wrote: »

I notice the term Bots, seems to be common utterance from those, who seemingly wish to suppress & dissuade an alternative viewpoint. It would be a great day for this site, if the powers that be would dish out the appropriate bans for posters who spew such nonsense imo.

Mod:

If somebody accuses a poster of being a bot that's personal abuse and we can act on it. We have had a few "bot" type registered accounts on here though, they do exist. We ask posters to report any suspected users and we'll check it out.

So no personal accusation but "bots" do exist unfortunately and I don't think we can ban mention of a real political term.

Grayson

K-9 wrote: »

Mod:

If somebody accuses a poster of being a bot that's personal abuse and we can act on it. We have had a few "bot" type registered accounts on here though, they do exist. We ask posters to report any suspected users and we'll check it out.

So no personal accusation but "bots" do exist unfortunately and I don't think we can ban mention of a real political term.

So says you

Public_Enema

oscarBravo wrote: »

Sez he, while Russia invades its neighbours.

Yes, let's just conveniently overlook the unnecessary expansion of NATO after the Cold War ended. Yes, let's just conveniently overlook it's provocative push up to Russia's borders during the last two decades. Now let's put the shoe on the other foot. If a Russian military alliance had pushed up to the borders of the United States, World War 3 would have probably have ended 10 years ago.

Gatling

Public_Enema wrote: »

Yes, let's just conveniently overlook the unnecessary expansion of NATO after the Cold War ended. Yes, let's just conveniently overlook it's provocative push up to Russia's borders during the last two decades. Now let's put the shoe on the other foot. If a Russian military alliance had pushed up to the borders of the United States, World War 3 would have probably have ended 10 years ago.

Proof in the pudding that Russia can't and should never be trusted .
Russia fears freedom and democracy more than it fears nato .
Nato doesn't make threats of nuclear weapons every 6 months .

BoJack Horseman

I love the innane 'what ifs'.

If Russia approached Canada/Mexico for military alliance, they'd be laughed out of the room.

Such an utterly irrelevant counter-point.

IrishTrajan

Public_Enema wrote: »

Yes, let's just conveniently overlook the unnecessary expansion of NATO after the Cold War ended. Yes, let's just conveniently overlook it's provocative push up to Russia's borders during the last two decades. Now let's put the shoe on the other foot. If a Russian military alliance had pushed up to the borders of the United States, World War 3 would have probably have ended 10 years ago.

"Unnecessary". Do you think, after witnessing Russia's involvement in Georgia and Ukraine, that the Baltics made an unnecessary decision? I sure as hell don't.

And the Russians did renege on their deals and push their borders. They went back on the "spheres of influence" deal with the British in every country except Greece.

ticklemetoe

K-9 wrote: »

Mod:

If somebody accuses a poster of being a bot that's personal abuse and we can act on it. We have had a few "bot" type registered accounts on here though, they do exist. .

do you really think the Kremlin gives a rats ass what is posted on a rinky dink irish forum?
delusions of grandeur?

BoJack Horseman

IrishTrajan wrote: »

"Unnecessary". Do you think, after witnessing Russia's involvement in Georgia and Ukraine, that the Baltics made an unnecessary decision? I sure as hell don't.

And the Russians did renege on their deals and push their borders. They went back on the "spheres of influence" deal with the British in every country except Greece.

The truism goes...

Join NATO & the EU, become safe & prosper.
Don't? Then you don't.

ticklemetoe

looks like the west has hit a dead end in ukraine and are now stirring up trouble in armenia.
the western economies must be much worse that we know they are, the west is itching for a big war with either Russia, china or ISIS. Any conflict will do to jump start the economic growth of the west

Elmer Blooker

ticklemetoe wrote: »

looks like the west has hit a dead end in ukraine and are now stirring up trouble in armenia.
the western economies must be much worse that we know they are, the west is itching for a big war with either Russia, china or ISIS. Any conflict will do to jump start the economic growth of the west

Yeah, spot on, its called the military-industrial complex.

ticklemetoe

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Yeah, spot on, its called the military-industrial complex.

its incredibly sad, these filthy rich pigs already have more money than they can spend and want more, they don't care how many die and suffer just as long as the number in a bank account gets bigger.

One sign of hope for us is i see is the USA they are talking about national service, the draft in another name. Lots of people not happy, brings back memories of Vietnam and the rich draft dodging, with a bit of luck if they can't fill the ranks of their army the USA can't go on the offensive. Give us a few more years of peace before the figure out something to fan the flames of war.