Mart Price Tracker

Limestone Cowboy

Base price wrote: »

Are you fookin serious.
God help the poor calves :mad:

I've often done them at a few days old if I can feel the buds. I think it's harder on them when they are a few weeks old to be honest which the vast majority of mine would be when I'm doing them but each to their own.

amacca

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I usually get wrangled into helping at such jobs, haltering them and generally engaging in hardship for both man and beast. There's no comparison in that compared to disbudding as calves and tbh skulling is rooting of the highest order. Between wrestling with them at the time, trying to watch for bleeding and flies afterwards and putting them in again to take off twines or reapplying Stockholm tar or ect it would be far easier and more humane to do them as sucks.

Most of those problems are minimised or non existent if you skull them at the right time. Immobilise them properly, tie up the blood vessel or block it and dont do them at the height of summer or during spring and it's not that bad in my experience. Never had to bring the animals back in or anything or reapply anything etc ....

It's as much if not more hassle sometimes with calves, get them into the crate, restrain them, clip the bit of hair away from the bud, make sure the gas dehorner is hot enough, go at it, cauterize any small bleeds, get the antiseptic/wound powder, bit of Stockholm tar etc etc

There was lots of reasons down the years the odd animal or bunch slipped through and had to be skulled later that weren't related to laziness in my experience and I wouldn't look down on a lad for that reason imo.

Albert Johnson

amacca wrote: »

Most of those problems are minimised or non existent if you skull them at the right time. Immobilise them properly, tie up the blood vessel or block it and dont do them at the height of summer or during spring and it's not that bad in my experience. Never had to bring the animals back in or anything or reapply anything etc ....

It's as much if not more hassle sometimes with calves, get them into the crate, restrain them, clip the bit of hair away from the bud, make sure the gas dehorner is hot enough, go at it, cauterize any small bleeds, get the antiseptic/wound powder, bit of Stockholm tar etc etc

There was lots of reasons down the years the odd animal or bunch slipped through and had to be skulled later that weren't related to laziness in my experience and I wouldn't look down on a lad for that reason imo.

I try not to look down on anyone and of course there's a myriad of reasons as to why they might be missed as calves and skulling will always be an option in those cases. However a large percentage of the lads I see with cattle of there own rearing requiring skulling annually could have them done as calves with minimal effort. Without looking to tar everyone with the one brush I'm talking about the sort of fellas that can't do anything in time and go around telling everyone there "killed out working" despite doing feck all daily.

There's a few men locally that are gifted at skulling and it's a pleasure to work with them. The horns are off with a few rubs of the wire, blood vessels cauterised and the animal is done before they know what's happening. However there's plenty of other lad's that would make a butcher before they'd make a surgeon. Between bad facilties, wild cattle and poor workmanship it's hardship on man and beast.

Granted they don't do themselves as calves but it's a far nicer undertaking imo. Whether the animal is 50kg or 500kg they still have to be rounded up and restrained, there's hair to be clipped on a bullock the same as a suck and the dehorner is my preferred method of cauterisation compared to twines or twisting veins. To each there own but given the choice of 20 big bullocks, a roll of dehorning wire and a halter or 20 sucks, a gas dehorner and a crate I know which I'd rather face into.

Dunedin

Base price wrote: »

Are you fookin serious.
God help the poor calves :mad:

A lot easier on the calves when they’re younger. Very occasionally one might go to two weeks and a lot more stressful on man and beast. I do them when they’re still in individual calving pen with the cow and find that helps too.

Anto_Meath

I have use the de-horning paste for the last 3 years and found it good, rub it on when I am tagging the calves at around a week old. Leave the cow looking through the gate at the calf for about an hour as I am tipping about doing other things then let him back to her once the horn is burned off. I am finding that the handiest way of all. I do have to use the gas de-horner on calves I buy in for bucket rearing and the odd time you will get the strong FR that will be to big to de-horn so he will have to be skulled in this spring. But I find the paste the best job. Granted the first year I used it 2 of them weren't done right and I had 2 with "indicators", it didn't do either of them any harm.

Hard Knocks

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I have use the de-horning paste for the last 3 years and found it good, rub it on when I am tagging the calves at around a week old. Leave the cow looking through the gate at the calf for about an hour as I am tipping about doing other things then let him back to her once the horn is burned off. I am finding that the handiest way of all. I do have to use the gas de-horner on calves I buy in for bucket rearing and the odd time you will get the strong FR that will be to big to de-horn so he will have to be skulled in this spring. But I find the paste the best job. Granted the first year I used it 2 of them weren't done right and I had 2 with "indicators", it didn't do either of them any harm.

The paste was good, sadly can’t be got around here as it’s the gel
We’ve had a good few stumps since moving to the gel compared to the paste or the bar before that

grassroot1

Done as calves here as soon as we can see where the bud is, not a fan of sculling as cattle. About half of the cows are homozygous polled so that rules out a share of calves anyway.

Charolois 19

Last year, one slipped through the net on me, normally have them done by a few weeks old, sculled her last month, never again, I got the vet to do it as I never sculled myself, in fairness to her she was good getting it done, suppose the anesthetic and all that, but she took an infection after, so that was injection for a few days too, and it was just a hassle to do compared to into the crate and done in 5 minutes, and id not like to tackle one with an attitude, had them in this eve to put spot on on them and shes healed well and still quite as a mouse , just stress on them and us thats not needed,
I know it could be just me too but on top of it it just annoyed me seeing one with horns there all over the winter too.

Sacrolyte

I downloaded LSL premium. On it there’s a feature where it says you can video a lot no. Does anybody know how to do this because I can’t.

patsy_mccabe

Am I right in saying that with LSL, you have to pay now, to see the animals that were sold in the marts. Feck that. The quicker the marts reopen the better.

I tried to look at lots sold recently on LSL and it won't let me see the lots on video.

jd_12345

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Am I right in saying that with LSL, you have to pay now, to see the animals that were sold in the marts. Feck that. The quicker the marts reopen the better.

I tried to look at lots sold recently on LSL and it won't let me see the lots on video.

Yeah thats a recent change alright. Tbf you can still see the prices just cant see them selling only live. Ahead of marteye all the same. You could just record it on your laptop pressing windows + g

ruwithme

Will there be a rise in prices ringside next week with the pension dollars back on the premises? & at least one shot in most arms to boot.

Albert Johnson

ruwithme wrote: »

Will there be a rise in prices ringside next week with the pension dollars back on the premises? & at least one shot in most arms to boot.

I wouldn't think so tbh, most lad's have the quota filled as regards stocking units, grass isn't that flush throughout the country and the weather shows little sign of improving in the short term. Weanlings and lighter stores were dearer a month ago for the same reasons as above, granted cow's and forward stores/beef cattle are a good trade but that has a different set of factors. The online system is here 12 month's at this stage and most have adapted to it to whatever degree is possible.

Westernrock

Base price wrote: »

Are you fookin serious.
God help the poor calves :mad:

The younger the better!! Legally they have to be disbudded under 28days if using anaesthetic or under 15 if not using anaesthetic. Ideally anaesthetic should always be used, I doubt too many would go to get a tooth pulled/filled without the local. I’ve seen calves disbudded and tagged at 2/3days go straight back sucking the cow.

MIKEKC

Westernrock wrote: »

The younger the better!! Legally they have to be disbudded under 28days if using anaesthetic or under 15 if not using anaesthetic. Ideally anaesthetic should always be used, I doubt too many would go to get a tooth pulled/filled without the local. I’ve seen calves disbudded and tagged at 2/3days go straight back sucking the cow.

What would 280kg fresian bullocks have been making last autumn?

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

What would 280kg fresian bullocks have been making last autumn?

350? At a guess. You still buy them for around 450 euro may e even less now

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

350? At a guess. You still buy them for around 450 euro may e even less now

Was trying to work out whether to buy 280 kg in October or 330-340 kg in spring. The 340 kg were scarce this spring and costing e250 eight their weight. Have space in shed and enough silage

T0001

MIKEKC wrote: »

Was trying to work out whether to buy 280 kg in October or 330-340 kg in spring. The 340 kg were scarce this spring and costing e250 eight their weight. Have space in shed and enough silage

Depending on quality they were making about €1.50/kg for O= grades. I suppose work out from there. At the price you say in the spring they work out at €1.73/kg.

I don't think it'd pay to feed them over winter. Cost the same roughly per bullock regardless of breed (roughly). If you've surplus silage I'd work out the money you'd make selling it and the money you'd save by buying the bullocks in Autumn over March and see which is greater.

Bass Reeves

T0001 wrote: »

Depending on quality they were making about €1.50/kg for O= grades. I suppose work out from there. At the price you say in the spring they work out at €1.73/kg.

I don't think it'd pay to feed them over winter. Cost the same roughly per bullock regardless of breed (roughly). If you've surplus silage I'd work out the money you'd make selling it and the money you'd save by buying the bullocks in Autumn over March and see which is greater.

The only thing is if you are good to put weight on cattle you will find it hard to buy them sort of yearlings.

If you bought a decent Fr bull in early September at about 250 kgs at 320-350 euro. He could be tipping 400 kgs as a bullock by late April. 150 euro would carry them a lot of the way to there. For 500 euro you would have a flaking yearling. It's all depends on what you intend doing with them. I be disappointed if I was not hanging them at over 350 kgs DW at 27-29 months.

MIKEKC

T0001 wrote: »

Depending on quality they were making about €1.50/kg for O= grades. I suppose work out from there. At the price you say in the spring they work out at €1.73/kg.

I don't think it'd pay to feed them over winter. Cost the same roughly per bullock regardless of breed (roughly). If you've surplus silage I'd work out the money you'd make selling it and the money you'd save by buying the bullocks in Autumn over March and see which is greater.

With silage costing e20 a bale and selling for e25 I don't feel that would alter the figure much.I am trying to work out if it is worth the trouble of wintering.The fact that I have the shed space and silage may make it viable. The cost of the autumn bought weanling plus the cost of feeding would need to be about e50 less than the cost of the weanling in spring to be worth the trouble

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The only thing is if you are good to put weight on cattle you will find it hard to buy them sort of yearlings.

If you bought a decent Fr bull in early September at about 250 kgs at 320-350 euro. He could be tipping 400 kgs as a bullock by late April. 150 euro would carry them a lot of the way to there. For 500 euro you would have a flaking yearling. It's all depends on what you intend doing with them. I be disappointed if I was not hanging them at over 350 kgs DW at 27-29 months.

To put on 150kg over that time would be good going considering most of the time would be winter.I presume feeding silage and 1kg meal. If this figure could be achieved it would certainly be viable considering 340kg were costing e590 this spring.Currently ours would be about 31months! to get 350kg DW.8

T0001

MIKEKC wrote: »

With silage costing e20 a bale and selling for e25 I don't feel that would alter the figure much.I am trying to work out if it is worth the trouble of wintering.The fact that I have the shed space and silage may make it viable. The cost of the autumn bought weanling plus the cost of feeding would need to be about e50 less than the cost of the weanling in spring to be worth the trouble

not to be smart but maybe give it a go and see how it works out! Sometimes I find the best way to know is to just do it. If it works do it again, if not move on to something else! Let us know what you do anyways and how it goes.

MIKEKC

T0001 wrote: »

not to be smart but maybe give it a go and see how it works out! Sometimes I find the best way to know is to just do it. If it works do it again, if not move on to something else! Let us know what you do anyways and how it goes.

Yes one sure way to find out. Just like to get other opinions. Some people must have made the comparison

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

To put on 150kg over that time would be good going considering most of the time would be winter.I presume feeding silage and 1kg meal. If this figure could be achieved it would certainly be viable considering 340kg were costing e590 this spring.Currently ours would be about 31months! to get 350kg DW.8

It would be fair clipping all right. But it is doable. When I say early September I mean the first week not the 15th. Friesians if done right will put weight on as fast as Continentals provided they are good middle of the road Friesian's. You need to keep grass into them from the day they come in until the day they are housed. No outside in a bare paddock for November and half of December. On Autumn grass they will need 6-700 grams of a fairly decent ration and be moved every 3-4 days. They will need minerals as well on top of the ration. When housed they will need silage that is over 70 DM and 70 DMD. On that and a kg of ration and minerals they will keep gaining weight. In early February you pull the ration and aim for turnout in Mid March.

On turnout you will need to keep grass ahead of them until end of April to achieve that weight gain. The weight gain is not as huge as you think. Assuming the bulls are 250 at purchase and as I said tipping 400 kgs. That would be a gain of 130-140 kgs in 220-230 days or a bit over 0.6-0.65kgs/ day

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It would be fair clipping all right. But it is doable. When I say early September I mean the first week not the 15th. Friesians if done right will put weight on as fast as Continentals provided they are good middle of the road Friesian's. You need to keep grass into them from the day they come in until the day they are housed. No outside in a bare paddock for November and half of December. On Autumn grass they will need 6-700 grams of a fairly decent ration and be moved every 3-4 days. They will need minerals as well on top of the ration. When housed they will need silage that is over 70 DM and 70 DMD. On that and a kg of ration and minerals they will keep gaining weight. In early February you pull the ration and aim for turnout in Mid March.

On turnout you will need to keep grass ahead of them until end of April to achieve that weight gain. The weight gain is not as huge as you think. Assuming the bulls are 250 at purchase and as I said tipping 400 kgs. That would be a gain of 130-140 kgs in 220-230 days or a bit over 0.6-0.65kgs/ day

It would be excellent if that could be achieved. Gaining .8kg after that should be over 525kg going into shed. Should be able to achieve the 350 kg DW you get at 30 months. Will try some this year. Thanks for your figures definitely worth a try

bogman_bass

So did anybody get their mart fix yesterday?

Albert Johnson

bogman_bass wrote: »

So did anybody get their mart fix yesterday?

It was strange to see men standing around the ringside but cattle were no dearer because of it imo.

White Clover

Albert Johnson wrote: »

It was strange to see men standing around the ringside but cattle were no dearer because of it imo.

If anything, it'd cause the price to drop when the dividing up starts again !

Albert Johnson

White Clover wrote: »

If anything, it'd cause the price to drop when the dividing up starts again !

I don't subscribe to that theory tbh. The man that's buying reckon the dealer's poll him while the seller's think the same dealer's keep down the price so who's right?

There's a 2 tier trade for stock atm, beef cattle, fleshed cow's and forward store's are in short supply and therefore are a good trade and are increasing in price week on week. This has happened again this week and would have done so regardless of where the buyer's happened to be standing. Conversely weanlings and ligher store's are probably €50-100 less than a month ago due to the stocking quota for the scheme being filled and the abysmal grass growth. None of the above factors are going to be negated simply because you're around the ring this week compared to sitting at home, in the jeep or lorry ect this day last week.

straight

White Clover wrote: »

If anything, it'd cause the price to drop when the dividing up starts again !

Hopefully the online system will save us.