Mart Price Tracker

patsy_mccabe · 11-05-2021 11:35am

Nothing, wrong with horns. This guy made €2,900 at the recent Roscrea Premier sale.

Surprised they allowed him to be sold.

https://twitter.com/irishlimousin/status/1389213887455764486

Base price · 11-05-2021 12:29pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Nothing, wrong with horns. This guy made €2,900 at the recent Roscrea Premier sale.
Surprised they allowed him to be sold.

https://twitter.com/irishlimousin/status/1389213887455764486

The 2014 legislation does not apply to pedigree animals/bull entered in a herd book from what I read of the link that grassroot posted.

Here is a link from DAFM for best practice for marts dealing with horned cattle
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/e881c-animal-welfare/#horned-cattle

Bass Reeves · 11-05-2021 12:53pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Nothing, wrong with horns. This guy made €2,900 at the recent Roscrea Premier sale.
Surprised they allowed him to be sold.

https://twitter.com/irishlimousin/status/1389213887455764486

You do not have to dehorn pedigree cattle AFAIK

Cavanjack · 11-05-2021 1:26pm

You’d imagine you would be limiting your customers with a horned bull.

Sacrolyte · 11-05-2021 3:02pm

Horned cattle are better off being sold so the purchaser you would think would see to it that the horns were removed because the seller obviously couldn’t be ars@d.

Albert Johnson · 11-05-2021 3:23pm

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Horned cattle are better off being sold so the purchaser you would think would see to it that the horns were removed because the seller obviously couldn’t be ars@d.

Without knowing the circumstances it's hard to judge, ill health, bereavement ect can mean that routine jobs aren't always completed as normal despite best intentions. That's not to say that some lad's can never do anything right and always have horned, wild, uncastrated stock or whatever. There's one time to take horns off and that's when the animal is a calf. It's far easier on man and beast and I can't think of any practical reason apart from laziness that is in favour of keeping horns on adult cattle.

Cavanjack · 11-05-2021 3:40pm

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Without knowing the circumstances it's hard to judge, ill health, bereavement ect can mean that routine jobs aren't always completed as normal despite best intentions. That's not to say that some lad's can never do anything right and always have horned, wild, uncastrated stock or whatever. There's one time to take horns off and that's when the animal is a calf. It's far easier on man and beast and I can't think of any practical reason apart from laziness that is in favour of keeping horns on adult cattle.

Couldn’t agree more.
Hear lads saying “I didn’t have time when they were calves to dehorn them”. Then they’ll spend half a Saturday rounding up cattle and skulling them, driving them crazy. Then another while tying ropes to their head to stop the bleeding.

grassroot1 · 11-05-2021 4:00pm

Albert Johnson wrote: »

The document Grassroot has kindly linked above dates from 2014. I've forgotten what the official stance on the issue prior to this was so in short I don't know whether the department official was right or wrong in your case.

I've seen similar to happen in recent year's (post 2014) and the department official was proven to be in the wrong when the legislation was consulted. Provided the relevant protocol is followed then there's nothing preventing the sale of horned cattle from the departments perspective, however the mart is still within there rights to refuse admission to such stock but that's an individual mart decision. It's important to keep in mind that state officials aren't always up to date with relevant legislation and there not immune to error any more than us mere mortals.

I was in charge of cattle for an employer and the department would not let them through a sale badly done as calves. I always presumed it was an offence to present them I stand corrected

patsy_mccabe · 11-05-2021 4:14pm

I dehorn calves now for 4 of my neighbours. They all say there is no comparison with doing them as calves compared to yearlings. 3cc of adrenacaine and it's no bother, when they are at the right age. Did a few now that were around 2 months old, as they were bought in and it was torture trying to do them. Horns way too big.

Albert Johnson · 11-05-2021 5:39pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more.
Hear lads saying “I didn’t have time when they were calves to dehorn them”. Then they’ll spend half a Saturday rounding up cattle and skulling them, driving them crazy. Then another while tying ropes to their head to stop the bleeding.

I usually get wrangled into helping at such jobs, haltering them and generally engaging in hardship for both man and beast. There's no comparison in that compared to disbudding as calves and tbh skulling is rooting of the highest order. Between wrestling with them at the time, trying to watch for bleeding and flies afterwards and putting them in again to take off twines or reapplying Stockholm tar or ect it would be far easier and more humane to do them as sucks.

Sami23 · 11-05-2021 10:11pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I dehorn calves now for 4 of my neighbours. They all say there is no comparison with doing them as calves compared to yearlings. 3cc of adrenacaine and it's no bother, when they are at the right age.

How young would dehorn them ?
Reason I'm asking is I've 2 here calved in the last week and would like to dehorn them before letting them out

ruwithme · 11-05-2021 10:26pm

Local mart here isn't displaying the catalogue in advance throughout the sale.why might this be?see other marts do display in advance & throughout the sale.

50HX · 11-05-2021 10:29pm

Sami23 wrote: »

How young would dehorn them ?
Reason I'm asking is I've 2 here calved in the last week and would like to dehorn them before letting them out

As soon as you can feel them, off with them

varies with breeds but i've done them at 5 days

Base price · 11-05-2021 10:52pm

ruwithme wrote: »

Local mart here isn't displaying the catalogue in advance throughout the sale.why might this be?see other marts do display in advance & throughout the sale.

Some marts may not have paid extra for that service?

A mart that we've occasionally bought online from have never had a catalogue since the beginning of online sales.

High bike · 11-05-2021 10:59pm

Sami23 wrote: »

How young would dehorn them ?
Reason I'm asking is I've 2 here calved in the last week and would like to dehorn them before letting them out

Depends on the calf here some are later to show horns than others but usually 2/3 weeks

Dunedin · 11-05-2021 11:23pm

Sami23 wrote: »

How young would dehorn them ?
Reason I'm asking is I've 2 here calved in the last week and would like to dehorn them before letting them out

I’ve done them as young as two days. Literally do them as soon as I can feel the buds. It’s limo here and the average is 5 days I do them. Don’t scoop out just ring them.

patsy_mccabe · 11-05-2021 11:36pm

Sami23 wrote: »

How young would dehorn them ?
Reason I'm asking is I've 2 here calved in the last week and would like to dehorn them before letting them out

It depends a lot on breed and gender. I find around 3 to 5 weeks works best here for limousins.

Base price · 11-05-2021 11:50pm

Dunedin wrote: »

I’ve done them as young as two days. Literally do them as soon as I can feel the buds. It’s limo here and the average is 5 days I do them. Don’t scoop out just ring them.

Are you fookin serious.
God help the poor calves :mad:

Limestone Cowboy · 12-05-2021 12:15am

Base price wrote: »

Are you fookin serious.
God help the poor calves :mad:

I've often done them at a few days old if I can feel the buds. I think it's harder on them when they are a few weeks old to be honest which the vast majority of mine would be when I'm doing them but each to their own.

amacca · 12-05-2021 12:36am

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I usually get wrangled into helping at such jobs, haltering them and generally engaging in hardship for both man and beast. There's no comparison in that compared to disbudding as calves and tbh skulling is rooting of the highest order. Between wrestling with them at the time, trying to watch for bleeding and flies afterwards and putting them in again to take off twines or reapplying Stockholm tar or ect it would be far easier and more humane to do them as sucks.

Most of those problems are minimised or non existent if you skull them at the right time. Immobilise them properly, tie up the blood vessel or block it and dont do them at the height of summer or during spring and it's not that bad in my experience. Never had to bring the animals back in or anything or reapply anything etc ....

It's as much if not more hassle sometimes with calves, get them into the crate, restrain them, clip the bit of hair away from the bud, make sure the gas dehorner is hot enough, go at it, cauterize any small bleeds, get the antiseptic/wound powder, bit of Stockholm tar etc etc

There was lots of reasons down the years the odd animal or bunch slipped through and had to be skulled later that weren't related to laziness in my experience and I wouldn't look down on a lad for that reason imo.

Albert Johnson · 12-05-2021 1:01am

amacca wrote: »

Most of those problems are minimised or non existent if you skull them at the right time. Immobilise them properly, tie up the blood vessel or block it and dont do them at the height of summer or during spring and it's not that bad in my experience. Never had to bring the animals back in or anything or reapply anything etc ....

It's as much if not more hassle sometimes with calves, get them into the crate, restrain them, clip the bit of hair away from the bud, make sure the gas dehorner is hot enough, go at it, cauterize any small bleeds, get the antiseptic/wound powder, bit of Stockholm tar etc etc

There was lots of reasons down the years the odd animal or bunch slipped through and had to be skulled later that weren't related to laziness in my experience and I wouldn't look down on a lad for that reason imo.

I try not to look down on anyone and of course there's a myriad of reasons as to why they might be missed as calves and skulling will always be an option in those cases. However a large percentage of the lads I see with cattle of there own rearing requiring skulling annually could have them done as calves with minimal effort. Without looking to tar everyone with the one brush I'm talking about the sort of fellas that can't do anything in time and go around telling everyone there "killed out working" despite doing feck all daily.

There's a few men locally that are gifted at skulling and it's a pleasure to work with them. The horns are off with a few rubs of the wire, blood vessels cauterised and the animal is done before they know what's happening. However there's plenty of other lad's that would make a butcher before they'd make a surgeon. Between bad facilties, wild cattle and poor workmanship it's hardship on man and beast.

Granted they don't do themselves as calves but it's a far nicer undertaking imo. Whether the animal is 50kg or 500kg they still have to be rounded up and restrained, there's hair to be clipped on a bullock the same as a suck and the dehorner is my preferred method of cauterisation compared to twines or twisting veins. To each there own but given the choice of 20 big bullocks, a roll of dehorning wire and a halter or 20 sucks, a gas dehorner and a crate I know which I'd rather face into.

Dunedin · 12-05-2021 7:26am

Base price wrote: »

Are you fookin serious.
God help the poor calves :mad:

A lot easier on the calves when they’re younger. Very occasionally one might go to two weeks and a lot more stressful on man and beast. I do them when they’re still in individual calving pen with the cow and find that helps too.

Anto_Meath · 12-05-2021 9:47am

I have use the de-horning paste for the last 3 years and found it good, rub it on when I am tagging the calves at around a week old. Leave the cow looking through the gate at the calf for about an hour as I am tipping about doing other things then let him back to her once the horn is burned off. I am finding that the handiest way of all. I do have to use the gas de-horner on calves I buy in for bucket rearing and the odd time you will get the strong FR that will be to big to de-horn so he will have to be skulled in this spring. But I find the paste the best job. Granted the first year I used it 2 of them weren't done right and I had 2 with "indicators", it didn't do either of them any harm.

Hard Knocks · 12-05-2021 11:25am

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I have use the de-horning paste for the last 3 years and found it good, rub it on when I am tagging the calves at around a week old. Leave the cow looking through the gate at the calf for about an hour as I am tipping about doing other things then let him back to her once the horn is burned off. I am finding that the handiest way of all. I do have to use the gas de-horner on calves I buy in for bucket rearing and the odd time you will get the strong FR that will be to big to de-horn so he will have to be skulled in this spring. But I find the paste the best job. Granted the first year I used it 2 of them weren't done right and I had 2 with "indicators", it didn't do either of them any harm.

The paste was good, sadly can’t be got around here as it’s the gel
We’ve had a good few stumps since moving to the gel compared to the paste or the bar before that

grassroot1 · 12-05-2021 3:38pm

Done as calves here as soon as we can see where the bud is, not a fan of sculling as cattle. About half of the cows are homozygous polled so that rules out a share of calves anyway.

Charolois 19 · 12-05-2021 9:42pm

Last year, one slipped through the net on me, normally have them done by a few weeks old, sculled her last month, never again, I got the vet to do it as I never sculled myself, in fairness to her she was good getting it done, suppose the anesthetic and all that, but she took an infection after, so that was injection for a few days too, and it was just a hassle to do compared to into the crate and done in 5 minutes, and id not like to tackle one with an attitude, had them in this eve to put spot on on them and shes healed well and still quite as a mouse , just stress on them and us thats not needed,
I know it could be just me too but on top of it it just annoyed me seeing one with horns there all over the winter too.

Sacrolyte · 13-05-2021 4:37pm

I downloaded LSL premium. On it there’s a feature where it says you can video a lot no. Does anybody know how to do this because I can’t.

patsy_mccabe · 13-05-2021 5:05pm

Am I right in saying that with LSL, you have to pay now, to see the animals that were sold in the marts. Feck that. The quicker the marts reopen the better.

I tried to look at lots sold recently on LSL and it won't let me see the lots on video.

jd_12345 · 14-05-2021 11:16pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Am I right in saying that with LSL, you have to pay now, to see the animals that were sold in the marts. Feck that. The quicker the marts reopen the better.

I tried to look at lots sold recently on LSL and it won't let me see the lots on video.

Yeah thats a recent change alright. Tbf you can still see the prices just cant see them selling only live. Ahead of marteye all the same. You could just record it on your laptop pressing windows + g

ruwithme · 14-05-2021 11:32pm

Will there be a rise in prices ringside next week with the pension dollars back on the premises? & at least one shot in most arms to boot.

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