Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

CatFromHue

Meh, we got Connacht into the HEC a couple of times so we can do what we want now.

It's a ballsy move by Cullen which makes me like him more.

Leinster will gain alot from giving these guys a game and everyone else can go and ****e

Tox56

awec wrote: »

You're at home. The integrity of the competition needs to be maintained even just a little bit. This selection is not respecting the competition.

All will be forgiven if you win, but it is disappointing to see Leinster even take the risk and go down this road.

I think its pretty insulting to the named team to suggest they are so bad it is completely failing to maintain the integrity of the competition itself by selecting them. They might be more likely to lose than the "first 15", but they are absolutely capable of winning, or at the very least being competitive. I mean, if anything, the fact the game is at home surely makes it safer to pick an inexperienced team, this same team would be significantly less likely to win if the game was taking place in Bath

ItsChecoTime

awec wrote: »

You're at home. The integrity of the competition needs to be maintained even just a little bit. This selection is not respecting the competition.

All will be forgiven if you win, but it is disappointing to see Leinster even take the risk and go down this road.

The integrity of the competition? Leinster have 8 starting players (taking into account injuries) playing, the way you are going on it would seem that we've picked the team to face Moseley in the B&I cup.

Rigor Mortis

awec wrote: »

It's one thing Racing sending their Bs to Limerick, it's a complete different thing (and worse) for Leinster to send the B side out at home.

It is irrelevant home or away. Leinster wont get out of this group. This is an opportunity to blood new players and to give a rest to some other players and to give them more big match experience. This will stand to them over the six nations window, which will be crucial to our chances of winning the league.

Someone previously posted the priorities for the Leinster team. Pro XII first, squad development second. Anything else is secondary.

As a fan, I wouldn't have given too much of a damn about this game as the result was so unimportant. Now, I am looking forward to going along and seeing how the next generation performs against quality opposition.

matthew8

That starting Leinster team would probably beat the Ulster team that started at Oyonnax.

molloyjh

For me we had an opportunity to use this weekend to draw a line under the poor form from earlier in the season. We've been on the up and the talk has shifted from Leinster being done to Leinster bouncing back. What better way to underline that than a win tomorrow against a side that beat us when we were at our lowest? If we lose this, which we probably will, and then lose again next week in Coventry, which we probably will, it puts an end to the momentum we had and could even restart the conversation about Leinster being in trouble. Suddenly we need to beat Dragons away or we're facing 3 losses in a row and the doubts creep in again.

To hell with Ulster (sorry lads) or the integrity of the competition or whatever other external factors people want to bring to bear. They are irrelevant. What is relevant is what impact this has on Leinster and their season. A full strength side could have had a really positive one. This side will, at best, have no impact at all.

former total

Yeah, Ulster named Marshall and Humphreys in their starting side last week, they ain't in a position to be giving out.

LostArt

awec wrote: »

You're at home. The integrity of the competition needs to be maintained even just a little bit. This selection is not respecting the competition.

All will be forgiven if you win, but it is disappointing to see Leinster even take the risk and go down this road.

Well, maybe if Ulster had played your full team last week you would be a point better off and less concerned about what Leinster do.

Interested Observer

former total wrote: »

Yeah, Ulster named Marshall and Humphreys in their starting side last week, they ain't in a position to be giving out.

If Awec also gave out about that his position is entirely consistent.

If he didn't...

dub_skav

awec wrote: »

If Leinster get tanked here and Bath pick up 4 or 5 points then Leo Cullen is certainly not going to be flavour of the month with Ulster fans. :mad:

Ulster fans do not forgive easily. Just ask John Lacey, George Clancy or Alain Rolland. Does Leo really want to find himself on the same list as those three? Not a nice list to be on!

former total

Actually, how does a Leinster defeat affect Ulster at all?

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

Actually, how does a Leinster defeat affect Ulster at all?

Bath are fighting for 2nd spot in the pool. If they get it with more points than Ulster it could deny Ulster a QF. Ulster not getting a TBP last week being the real problem there.

wowy

awec wrote: »

Have another Irish province ever done it to Leinster? I know French teams have and there has been plenty of complaints on here about how disgraceful it is.

Of course it'd be Ulster's fault at the end of the day, but if Leinster sending out the academy results in Bath picking up points tomorrow that they otherwise wouldn't and Ulster do the business in the last two games there would certainly be an interesting discussion to be had.

awec wrote: »

It's one thing Racing sending their Bs to Limerick, it's a complete different thing (and worse) for Leinster to send the B side out at home.

awec wrote: »

You're at home. The integrity of the competition needs to be maintained even just a little bit. This selection is not respecting the competition.

All will be forgiven if you win, but it is disappointing to see Leinster even take the risk and go down this road.

Jesus, over-exaggerate much? All the bolded players below are either internationals, first team players for Leinster, there on merit for performances so far this season, or are there or thereabouts in the first team anyway.

15. Zane Kirchner
14. Isa Nacewa CAPTAIN
13. Garry Ringrose
12. Ben Te'o
11. Dave Kearney
10. Ian Madigan
9. Luke McGrath
1. Peter Dooley
2. James Tracy
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Ross Molony
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jordi Murphy

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. Marty Moore
19. Tom Denton
20. Sean O'Brien
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Johnny Sexton
23. Noel Reid

The fact that there's a few eye-catching selections (Dooley, Tracey & Molony to start) doesn't mean that we've sent the A's out to get slaughtered (they're too busy playing Moseley this weekend anyway). There's still a lot of quality in that 23.

Relax.

Tox56

molloyjh wrote: »

For me we had an opportunity to use this weekend to draw a line under the poor form from earlier in the season. We've been on the up and the talk has shifted from Leinster being done to Leinster bouncing back. What better way to underline that than a win tomorrow against a side that beat us when we were at our lowest? If we lose this, which we probably will, and then lose again next week in Coventry, which we probably will, it puts an end to the momentum we had and could even restart the conversation about Leinster being in trouble. Suddenly we need to beat Dragons away or we're facing 3 losses in a row and the doubts creep in again.

To hell with Ulster (sorry lads) or the integrity of the competition or whatever other external factors people want to bring to bear. They are irrelevant. What is relevant is what impact this has on Leinster and their season. A full strength side could have had a really positive one. This side will, at best, have no impact at all.

Ah you can't say a win will have no impact at best, a win here would be absolutely brilliant, people aren't expecting anything other than the chance to see the young players give it a lash, it would be huge for the confidence of the young players if they could pull off a win (or even a close, competitive game), and for the confidece of the fans too that the future is bright. The benefit would be big in the short term too, most of these players will be playing through the six nations, a win here would give them a lot of confidence and momentum for that.

If you're looking at positive and negative impacts, consider the reaction if the best 15 possible had started, and then lost, at home, in an ultimately meaningless game. Everyone would be extremely disappointed and there wouldn't be many, if any, positives to take from the game. We can lose tomorrow and still take a lot of positives from it

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

Bath are fighting for 2nd spot in the pool. If they get it with more points than Ulster it could deny Ulster a QF. Ulster not getting a TBP last week being the real problem there.

Yeah I get that. I just don't think anyone bothered to work out the permutations required.

It's not an issue.

awec

former total wrote: »

Yeah I get that. I just don't think anyone bothered to work out the permutations required.

It's not an issue.

5 points tomorrow would put Bath ahead of Ulster if Ulster don't get anything in Sarries (likely with our back row).

Their points difference is worse than ours though, but if we lose tomorrow ours will go down and if they win (with a bp) theirs is likely to go up.

Of course, Ulster have Oyonnax at home last game while Bath have Toulon which is a bit of a difference.

If Leinster win though it basically eliminates Bath and simplifies things. Bath aren't a massive threat, but a Leinster win would be helpful anyway.

Stade and Wasps / Toulon are bigger problems really, if Leinster send a similar team to Wasps next week then we're really goosed. And if Stade beat Munster it's really bad (for Ulster).

molloyjh

Tox56 wrote: »

Ah you can't say a win will have no impact at best, a win here would be absolutely brilliant, people aren't expecting anything other than the chance to see the young players give it a lash, it would be huge for the confidence of the young players if they could pull off a win (or even a close, competitive game), and for the confidece of the fans too that the future is bright. The benefit would be big in the short term too, most of these players will be playing through the six nations, a win here would give them a lot of confidence and momentum for that.

If you're looking at positive and negative impacts, consider the reaction if the best 15 possible had started, and then lost, at home, in an ultimately meaningless game. Everyone would be extremely disappointed and there wouldn't be many, if any, positives to take from the game. We can lose tomorrow and still take a lot of positives from it

If we win then sure there would be a boat load of positives. My post was written with the assumption that we'll lose. Which I think we will.

I also think our first string team would have won. We were a dodgy scrum away from beating them in Bath and we've improved in every area since plus have most of our first string fit and available, unlike the reverse fixture.

aimee1

awec wrote: »

5 points tomorrow would put Bath ahead of Ulster if Ulster don't get anything in Sarries (likely with our back row).

Their points difference is worse than ours though, but if we lose tomorrow ours will go down and if they win (with a bp) theirs is likely to go up.

Of course, Ulster have Oyonnax at home last game while Bath have Toulon which is a bit of a difference.

If Leinster win though it basically eliminates Bath and simplifies things. Bath aren't a massive threat, but a Leinster win would be helpful anyway.

Stade and Wasps / Toulon are bigger problems really, if Leinster send a similar team to Wasps next week then we're really goosed. And if Stade beat Munster it's really bad (for Ulster).

So Ulster are in this position because they only bothered playing for 40 minutes last week and lost badly at home to saracens ???

awec

aimee1 wrote: »

So Ulster are in this position because they only bothered playing for 40 minutes last week and lost badly at home to saracens ???

Of course! Nobody has suggested otherwise.

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

If we win then sure there would be a boat load of positives. My post was written with the assumption that we'll lose. Which I think we will.

I also think our first string team would have won. We were a dodgy scrum away from beating them in Bath and we've improved in every area since plus have most of our first string fit and available, unlike the reverse fixture.

TME made the point, I think Leo is looking beyond the ERCC and at the Pro12. I dont think losing in the ERCC will kill the momentum. Losing to Toulon x 2 was followed by 3 pro 12 wins.

scott1974

Just went to get a ticket and the North Stand is sold out and three tickets left for the south...mm

Dave_The_Sheep

On the bright side, if Bath do take us for 4/5 tomorrow, then they may be able to put Toulon out of the competition in their last game - depending on how Wasps do. Which would be nice.

I'm not looking for a loss, but there's a silver lining right there.

irishbucsfan

This is all a load of nonsense. Leinster can pick whoever they want.

It's not like we're starting Paul Marshall and Ian Humpreys, the guys we're starting all have very bright futures ahead of them.

Interested Observer

awec wrote: »

5 points tomorrow would put Bath...

When do you reckon the last time Leinster conceded a BP in a Euro pool game was?

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is all a load of nonsense. Leinster can pick whoever they want.

It's not like we're starting Paul Marshall and Ian Humpreys, the guys we're starting all have very bright futures ahead of them.

Do you think they will play a full team next week?

awec

Interested Observer wrote: »

When do you reckon the last time Leinster conceded a BP in a Euro pool game was?

No idea, but it's completely irrelevant anyway.

JPCN1

awec wrote: »

You're at home. The integrity of the competition needs to be maintained even just a little bit. This selection is not respecting the competition.

All will be forgiven if you win, but it is disappointing to see Leinster even take the risk and go down this road.

Nah, the competition doesn't deserve that much respect and started with little integrity. The English in particular did not respect us during the setting up of the new competition. As to the selection- we're out and it would be daft not to give some of the younger lads a go. French and Brits do it time and again and they're not wrong.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Do you think they will play a full team next week?

I don't know. Maybe they'll keep rolling with this team to get them up to speed for the 6 Nations period. Maybe the internationals would prefer another game before going away to Irish camp. Possibly depends on the individuals.

molloyjh

aimee1 wrote: »

TME made the point, I think Leo is looking beyond the ERCC and at the Pro12. I dont think losing in the ERCC will kill the momentum. Losing to Toulon x 2 was followed by 3 pro 12 wins.

After we lost our 2 European openers we only played 1 game before playing Toulon, which was at home to Ulster. Those 3 wins you are referring to are the upswing that I was talking about. I don' t think we should be following up a brief upswing of 3 wins with 2 losses.

Larbre34

Cullen is right. Sorry and all to Ulster and whoever else, but we have to frame team that will play through the six nations window and keep us in the Pro12 playoff positions. Everything else is irrelevant now.