Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

tomwaterford

dubcat51 wrote: »

kk will be strong this year.

If tipp have the hunger for it....kk won't beat them
Their time at the top is gone

dubcat51

tomwaterford wrote: »

If tipp have the hunger for it....kk won't beat them
Their time at the top is gone

Firstly I was posting that kk 21s will be strong this year.but if you think a team who have lost just 1 championship game in 3 years are gone(well your delued my friend).

tomwaterford

dubcat51 wrote: »

Firstly I was posting that kk 21s will be strong this year.but if you think a team who have lost just 1 championship game in 3 years are gone(well your delued my friend).

Tbf..... Tipp were head ans shoulders bettwr tham amd looked to be in a position to hammer them


If you think kk cam close that gap in one year with oit tipp lettong standreds drop..... I know whos deluded


Ive not said their gone... But their time at thw top looking down on everyone else is gone

dubcat51

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf..... Tipp were head ans shoulders bettwr tham amd looked to be in a position to hammer them


If you think kk cam close that gap in one year with oit tipp lettong standreds drop..... I know whos deluded


Ive not said their gone... But their time at thw top looking down on everyone else is gone

Firstly with 42 min gone we were ahead.we scored 2-20 and probably could have had more if we werent going for goals.yes tipp were better on the day and deserved to win.however the return of mick fennelly and ger alwyard plus some good young ones will have us right there.as for hammerings I think your confusing us with yourselves v tipp.

tomwaterford

Any kk person ive spoken to....openly admits to tipp being at least 10 poibts better than them

Also openly admit to tye fact that their best player at the min is past his best due to injuries


If you wish to continue to bury your head in the sand in relation to this work away....

The point i raised still stands.....their time at the top is gone and is unlikely to wver returm to the dominence of before
(assuming tipp dont get laid back/collaspe standreds like afte the 2010 all ireland)

If this opioion upsets you i apoligise for any distress caused

dubcat51

They were better on the day.they werent better on the day than galway in the semi but won.we have won 4 out of the last 6 and 4 out of 5 before that.yet you think were gone.I will go on the facts and not your wishfull thinking based on nothing.

tomwaterford

dubcat51 wrote: »

They were better on the day.they werent better on the day than galway in the semi but won.we have won 4 out of the last 6 and 4 out of 5 before that.yet you think were gone.I will go on the facts and not your wishfull thinking based on nothing.

If you think they are going to keep on the same dominate of the game as the previous decade....I fear it's you whose wishful thinking


But knowing tipp....they could be just as likely to take the foot off the gas and throw away a couple of all Ireland's :pac:

mountgomery burns

dubcat51 wrote: »

Firstly I was posting that kk 21s will be strong this year.but if you think a team who have lost just 1 championship game in 3 years are gone(well your delued my friend).

Heard Westmeath are good this year as well...

dubcat51

tomwaterford wrote: »

If you think they are going to keep on the same dominate of the game as the previous decade....I fear it's you whose wishful thinking


But knowing tipp....they could be just as likely to take the foot off the gas and throw away a couple of all Ireland's :pac:

never said we would dominate as before(you said we were gone.)also nobody throws away all irelands there hard won.fact is tipp havent put 2 back 2 back for years and years.(alot of throwing away)

dubcat51

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Heard Westmeath are good this year as well...

should be a good leinster championship u21

Topcat32

tomwaterford wrote: »

If you think they are going to keep on the same dominate of the game as the previous decade....I fear it's you whose wishful thinking


But knowing tipp....they could be just as likely to take the foot off the gas and throw away a couple of all Ireland's :pac:

15 years is longer than a decade. We will do just fine, id be pretty confident we will win more than Waterford over the next 10 years, hope you at least win 1 all ireland tho.

PTH2009

It's now 2017 and the question like every other year is 'is this finally our year ???'

We have the players to do it but like the 1998-2008 team there are other teams around that are equally as good as us eg Tipp, Kilkenny,Galway,Clare etc

I'm not expecting another NHL final this year as Derek said in his news and star interview the league will be used to blood a few new players and the training won't be geared towards winning/going far in the league. I'd love to win in Kilkenny and Croke Park

Our opening championship fixture is later that usual (June 18th) and possibly against reigning all Ireland champions Tipperary or Cork. We could be looking at the qualifier route this year but the waterford players want a go off tipp too prove the Munster final disaster was a once off

Hopefully 2017 will be a good year, best of luck to the footballers too and hopefully we can get out of division 4 and have a run in the championship

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

It's now 2017 and the question like every other year is 'is this finally our year ???'

We have the players to do it but like the 1998-2008 team there are other teams around that are equally as good as us eg Tipp, Kilkenny,Galway,Clare etc

I'm not expecting another NHL final this year as Derek said in his news and star interview the league will be used to blood a few new players and the training won't be geared towards winning/going far in the league. I'd love to win in Kilkenny and Croke Park

Our opening championship fixture is later that usual (June 18th) and possibly against reigning all Ireland champions Tipperary or Cork. We could be looking at the qualifier route this year but the waterford players want a go off tipp too prove the Munster final disaster was a once off

Hopefully 2017 will be a good year, best of luck to the footballers too and hopefully we can get out of division 4 and have a run in the championship

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0101/842117-gleeson/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

gleeson seems to think we can

dubcat51

Would mcgrath be the most under pressure manager this year.with the success of your 21s and the team let off the leash.surely your supporters wont stand tippy tappy hurling and sweepers.could the waterford crowd turn just like the clare crowd?

tomwaterford

dubcat51 wrote: »

never said we would dominate as before(you said we were gone.)also nobody throws away all irelands there hard won.fact is tipp havent put 2 back 2 back for years and years.(alot of throwing away)

Just to be clear here....i said their time at the top is gone :P


But i do look at clare somewhat with anticipion as theyve massively under achieved in revebt years

Topcat32

tomwaterford wrote: »

Just to be clear here....i said their time at the top is gone :P


But i do look at clare somewhat with anticipion as theyve massively under achieved in revebt years

No they havent, they were lucky Kilkenny and Tipp underperformed in 2013

seananigans

Galway Clare ourselves Tipp/KK 5 teams who all think they should win it next year , pushing clare out a bit that still leaves 4 we cant all win it .

robopaddy2

dubcat51 wrote: »

Would mcgrath be the most under pressure manager this year.with the success of your 21s and the team let off the leash.surely your supporters wont stand tippy tappy  hurling and sweepers.could the waterford crowd turn just like the clare crowd?

Yeah he needs to deliver this year, but if he dosent, don't expect any changes. The co board don't remove managers in Waterford and a lot of the players are very close to him so would be surprised if there was an upheavel against him.

Giveitfong

The Waterford team which won the All-Ireland Minor Hurling title in 2013 was, in term of inherent ability, probably one of the strongest teams ever to play in this championship. After the final, I reckoned that at least eight of the team were good enough to make the grade at top-level senior intercounty hurling: Austin Gleeson, the two Bennetts, Patrick Curran, Michael Harney, Tom Devine, DJ Foran and Colm Roche. I also thought that Conor Gleeson, Mikey Kearney and Cormac Curran might have intercounty potential. Following this year’s Under-21 campaign, I would add two more of the 2013 minor team to that list – Willie Hahessy and Mark O’Brien, both of whom played superbly in the final.

To get that number of quality players in a single county minor hurling team is, to my mind, unprecedented. Of the group, so far eight have seen league and/or championship action with the Waterford seniors – the two Gleesons, the two Bennetts, Tom Devine, Mikey Kearney, Patrick Curran and Colm Roche – while two others have made match-day squads (Cormac Curran, Mark O’Brien). I would expect to see at least two or three more in the county colours in the coming year.

Yet, despite all this ability, the 2013 minors stuttered and staggered their way to the All-Ireland title. They lost two games along the way (including the Munster Final), struggled to get the better of a moderate Kilkenny outfit in the All-Ireland semi-final, and only managed to put Galway away in the final 15 minutes of the All-Ireland final, following Patrick Curran’s superb opportunist goal. The only game in which they showed what they were truly capable of was the drawn Munster Final, in which they played some magical hurling for 50 minutes but then let it slip (with the help of some dubious refereeing) in the closing stages.

In 2016, much the same team did what they should have been capable of doing in 2013 when they steamrolled their way to the All-Ireland Under-21 title. This was quite a relief given Waterford’s chronic tendency to under-perform at this grade. The 2015 Under-21 team was even stronger, with Tadhg de Búrca, Colin Dunford, Kieran Bennett and Shane McNulty on board along with the bulk of the 2016 team. Unfortunately they turned up in Ennis with a poor mindset, a poor game plan and poor sideline management and lost out to a moderate but highly-committed home side.

It is worth noting that, in their march to the 2016 title, Waterford managed to avoid the two teams which, in my view, were capable of giving them a serious challenge. Limerick were the defending All-Ireland champions, had beaten Waterford in both the 2013 and 2014 Munster minor finals and lost the 2013 All-Ireland semi-final in controversial circumstances. However, they didn’t have the required attitude in their Munster semi-final and were squeezed out on a wet night in Thurles by a Tipperary team with limited ability but oodles of commitment. Dublin, with a big, strong, team with a number of senior panellists, simply threw away their semi-final against Galway. Some of their 21 wides were truly unbelievable.

From this point of view, it can be argued that Waterford’s success in the 1992 Under-21 championship was the more admirable achievement. While that team did have some superb hurlers (Browne, Hartley, Brenner, Daly, Flynn), in terms of overall ability, it was not comparable with the 2016 team. I reckon that at least six of the 1992 team would not have got on the 2016 team. Yet in their march to the All-Ireland title, they got the better of two teams which would probably have won out in most other years. Six of the Clare team which lost the Munster final went on to win All-Ireland senior medals – Davy Fitzgerald, Brian Lohan, Brian Quinn, Colin Lynch, Jamesie O’Connor and Conor Clancy. It probably would have been seven were it not for the death, in tragic circumstances, of Padraig McNamara later that year. Similarly, six of the Offaly team which lost the All-Ireland final in 1992 subsequently won senior All-Irelands – Brian Whelahan, Kevin Kinahan, Hubert Rigney, Kevin Martin, John Troy and Johnny Dooley.

Waterford in 2016 never had to contend with players of that calibre and in that number. This, of course, is not to say that they would not have prevailed if presented with such challenges. They could only play what was put in front of them and saw all challengers off with authority and great style. They are an exceptional group of players and will undoubtedly provide the backbone for a future senior All-Ireland winning team.

PTH2009

Giveitfong wrote: »

The Waterford team which won the All-Ireland Minor Hurling title in 2013 was, in term of inherent ability, probably one of the strongest teams ever to play in this championship. After the final, I reckoned that at least eight of the team were good enough to make the grade at top-level senior intercounty hurling: Austin Gleeson, the two Bennetts, Patrick Curran, Michael Harney, Tom Devine, DJ Foran and Colm Roche. I also thought that Conor Gleeson, Mikey Kearney and Cormac Curran might have intercounty potential. Following this year’s Under-21 campaign, I would add two more of the 2013 minor team to that list – Willie Hahessy and Mark O’Brien, both of whom played superbly in the final.

To get that number of quality players in a single county minor hurling team is, to my mind, unprecedented. Of the group, so far eight have seen league and/or championship action with the Waterford seniors – the two Gleesons, the two Bennetts, Tom Devine, Mikey Kearney, Patrick Curran and Colm Roche – while two others have made match-day squads (Cormac Curran, Mark O’Brien). I would expect to see at least two or three more in the county colours in the coming year.

Yet, despite all this ability, the 2013 minors stuttered and staggered their way to the All-Ireland title. They lost two games along the way (including the Munster Final), struggled to get the better of a moderate Kilkenny outfit in the All-Ireland semi-final, and only managed to put Galway away in the final 15 minutes of the All-Ireland final, following Patrick Curran’s superb opportunist goal. The only game in which they showed what they were truly capable of was the drawn Munster Final, in which they played some magical hurling for 50 minutes but then let it slip (with the help of some dubious refereeing) in the closing stages.

In 2016, much the same team did what they should have been capable of doing in 2013 when they steamrolled their way to the All-Ireland Under-21 title. This was quite a relief given Waterford’s chronic tendency to under-perform at this grade. The 2015 Under-21 team was even stronger, with Tadhg de Búrca, Colin Dunford, Kieran Bennett and Shane McNulty on board along with the bulk of the 2016 team. Unfortunately they turned up in Ennis with a poor mindset, a poor game plan and poor sideline management and lost out to a moderate but highly-committed home side.

It is worth noting that, in their march to the 2016 title, Waterford managed to avoid the two teams which, in my view, were capable of giving them a serious challenge. Limerick were the defending All-Ireland champions, had beaten Waterford in both the 2013 and 2014 Munster minor finals and lost the 2013 All-Ireland semi-final in controversial circumstances. However, they didn’t have the required attitude in their Munster semi-final and were squeezed out on a wet night in Thurles by a Tipperary team with limited ability but oodles of commitment. Dublin, with a big, strong, team with a number of senior panellists, simply threw away their semi-final against Galway. Some of their 21 wides were truly unbelievable.

From this point of view, it can be argued that Waterford’s success in the 1992 Under-21 championship was the more admirable achievement. While that team did have some superb hurlers (Browne, Hartley, Brenner, Daly, Flynn), in terms of overall ability, it was not comparable with the 2016 team. I reckon that at least six of the 1992 team would not have got on the 2016 team. Yet in their march to the All-Ireland title, they got the better of two teams which would probably have won out in most other years. Six of the Clare team which lost the Munster final went on to win All-Ireland senior medals – Davy Fitzgerald, Brian Lohan, Brian Quinn, Colin Lynch, Jamesie O’Connor and Conor Clancy. It probably would have been seven were it not for the death, in tragic circumstances, of Padraig McNamara later that year. Similarly, six of the Offaly team which lost the All-Ireland final in 1992 subsequently won senior All-Irelands – Brian Whelahan, Kevin Kinahan, Hubert Rigney, Kevin Martin, John Troy and Johnny Dooley.

Waterford in 2016 never had to contend with players of that calibre and in that number. This, of course, is not to say that they would not have prevailed if presented with such challenges. They could only play what was put in front of them and saw all challengers off with authority and great style. They are an exceptional group of players and will undoubtedly provide the backbone for a future senior All-Ireland winning team.

Good words we have unbelievable depth at the moment

It will be a crying shame if we look back 10-12 years from now and that Liam McCarthy has still not crossed over the bridge, it has happened with other countries (Limerick, Galway, Dublin) who had brilliant underage teams and lots of success but never translated it into senior level

Our senior hurlers and footballers start there seasons next Sunday 8th Jan with the hurlers playing Limerick in Walsh Park in the ML and footballers travelling to Clare in the McGrath Cup

dubcat51

Making the step from u21 success to senior is the unknown for waterford.limerick couldnt do it .clare did but it was a very soft all ireland(as shown by their form since and corks)plenty of potential but no senior winning form so far.

Waternut

Whilst I have the upmost confidence in 5 or 6 of these lads going on to backbone waterford for the next ten years, the simple fact is that only Gleeson has really established himself as a senior starter. I reckon the U21 championship was only fair this year, not taking anything away from our win but to say that this Waterford team was an outstanding team might be a bit premature.
Anyone remember the Kilkenny minor team from around 2002 to 2003? 5 or 6 went on to win multiple all irelands and backbone that great kilkenny team. The team included Mick Fennelly, Richie Power, Cha, Tenneson, Rice and even Hogan was a sub...

robopaddy2

Waternut wrote: »

Whilst I have the upmost confidence in 5 or 6 of these lads going on to backbone waterford for the next ten years, the simple fact is that only Gleeson has really established himself as a senior starter. I reckon the U21 championship was only fair this year, not taking anything away from our win but to say that this Waterford team was an outstanding team might be a bit premature.
Anyone remember the Kilkenny minor team from around 2002 to 2003? 5 or 6 went on to win multiple all irelands and backbone that great kilkenny team. The team included Mick Fennelly, Richie Power, Cha, Tenneson, Rice and even Hogan was a sub...

Hogan was minor in 2006, maybe it was his older brother Paddy. But yea that was an unreal minor side. Managed by Nicky Cashin (Abbeyside man originally) Eoin Larkin and Jackie Tyrell were there in 02 aswell, Christ when you look at it what a minor group. They say while Alex Ferguson was a genius he was blessed in no small part by an unreal crop of young players that came though at United in his early years, you can certainly say the same for Cody

PTH2009

Limerick match has been moved to Fraher Field Dungarvan, 2pm Sunday 8th Jan

danganabu

dubcat51 wrote: »

never said we would dominate as before(you said we were gone.)also nobody throws away all irelands there hard won.fact is tipp havent put 2 back 2 back for years and years.(alot of throwing away)

You seem confused??

The blue blaa

Disappointed to hear the news that a former county minor is to join Mount Sion from his native Passage East hurling club.
His Grandfather was a late great of the Mount Sion club, the young lad of eighteen summers was brought up a passage man an they done a great job getting him to where he is now.
I dont like to see clubs swooping in like this on talented country lads.
A club brings a lad to a level and then a so called bigger club comes in an takes them.
How many times will we see this happen with nothing done to protect the clubs who put in the hardwork.

If any player wants to leave a club there should be a 12 month playing ban on them before they can line out for their new club. See how much they want it then no hurling/football for a year.

robopaddy2

The blue blaa wrote: »

Disappointed to hear the news that a former county minor is to join Mount Sion from his native Passage East hurling club.
His Grandfather was a late great of the Mount Sion club, the young lad of eighteen summers was brought up a passage man an they done a great job getting him to where he is now.
I dont like to see clubs swooping in like this on talented country lads.
A club brings a lad to a level and then a so called bigger club comes in an takes them.
How many times will we see this happen with nothing done to protect the clubs who put in the hardwork.

If any player wants to leave a club there should be a 12 month playing ban on them before they can line out for their new club. See how much they want it then no hurling/football for a year.

First I heard of this. Maybe you know the full story behind the move but I'm sure the lad has his reasons, cannot fully blame Mount sion at the end of the day either, there is no parish rule in Waterford and if the player showed a desire to move, well what can you do. In fact it could be argued that moving from Passage to Mount Sion at the moment is actually step backwards at the moment. Passage managed to get Eoin Kelly from Mt Sion at a time when he was one of the best hurlers in the country so sometimes you've got to take the bad with the good.
Any news on any other significant transfers?

robopaddy2

seananigans wrote: »

@giveitfong

The minors played the semi against antrim in ashbourne (I was there) the game was blown up ten or so minutes early we were maybe 15 points on top and an antrim lad had a head/neck  injury carted away in an ambulance ,we all stopped watching the match because we were so far ahead and cork were beating kk, for the first time in 4 years they were beaten by anybody, never seen 200 waterford people cheer for cork the same way

we played kk in the final bet them by ten points i think ? 3rd goal with 5 minutes to go had a finger wag and it was all over, I dont think we got to play Galwy in the minor in 2013

It was Galway we beat in the final. Don't know wha year youre thinking about but it was our only minor win in recent memory so surprised you can't recall that, especially when you can recall the quarter final hammering against Antrim???

seananigans

robopaddy2 wrote: »

It was Galway we beat in the final. Don't know wha year youre thinking about but it was our only minor win in recent memory so surprised you can't recall that, especially when you can recall the quarter final hammering against Antrim???

my memory fails me,looked it up after, was at the antrim game wasnt at the semi or final, remmeber the benents and gleeson impressing

PTH2009

Really sad news coming I'm dis morning

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/94514-wlr-fm-announces-the-death-of-sports-editor-kevin-casey.html

Hes GAA work was excellent esp the Maurice Shannahan interview

Rip my thoughts and prayers are with his family and colleagues