Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Deise Gael

A very good supplement in today's Examiner featuring some of the successes of a number of clubs across the country in 2016.

There was a very interesting interview with Brendan Landers on Lismore's Munster success. I hadn't realised that they had lost so many hurlers in the last couple of years through emigration and retirement. They have been left with only 21 adult players in the club. When you take into account that they had two forty year olds and one 38 year old actually on the starting 15 it really was a great achievement for them.

It's interesting also that Landers thinks that they will struggle again at Senior level next year.

thesultan

Deise Gael wrote: »

A very good supplement in today's Examiner featuring some of the successes of a number of clubs across the country in 2016.

There was a very interesting interview with Brendan Landers on Lismore's Munster success. I hadn't realised that they had lost so many hurlers in the last couple of years through emigration and retirement. They have been left with only 21 adult players in the club. When you take into account that they had two forty year olds and one 38 year old actually on the starting 15 it really was a great achievement for them.

It's interesting also that Landers thinks that they will struggle again at Senior level next year.

They had two 38's and a 39.
Most non city teams have the same struggle for players

cul beag

thesultan wrote: »

They had two 38's and a 39.
Most non city teams have the same struggle for players

Yes,which makes Lismore's success this year all the more remarkable. Great credit must go to everyone involved there. When you think of all the players that they train for Ballysaggart and Tourin up there aswell at underage it really is a hurling nursery.

Cake Man

PTH2009 wrote: »

Low points- League final replay loss, Munster final disaster, ****ing away the chance of beating Kilkenny in Croke Park and the semi final replay defeat

I know you're usually the resident pessimist PTH but when you mention the low points above, it really does highlight how many moments of heartbreak we've had this year.


That league final loss was sickening, I'm still gutted when I think about it now! Bad enough we didn't get that obvious free when Barron was pulled down but to give it the other way and then Kelly pointed at the death (great score btw) with no time to respond was horrible. The highlight there for me though was going out a few weeks later and taking them apart in Munster so maybe the heartbreak there fuelled the desire to get one back over them.


Nothing else needed to be said about the Munster final it was just horrific.


Throwing away the 5 point lead to KK was sickening too, we really really should have closed that out. There was almost an inevitability when they got on top in the replay that it was going to be the same old, same old. The first day really was the moment and I'd say some lads have/will surely thought about it once or twice over the winter.


Still, there were plenty of high points, the U21's were majestic and it was great to see us dole out a few batterings for once. Too often we've been on the receiving end of them. Austin, Barron, Paudie and Patrick Curran had excellent years with others like Stephen Bennett and Conor Gleeson looking like they'll be pushing hard for a first 15 spot for 2017.


The minors didn't have too bad of a year despite not getting out of Munster. They were unluckily pipped by a score in each of their games, one of which was against Limerick who went on to contest the AI final and they even beat Tipp who went on to win the AI. The main thing is they were competitive.


All in all, a good year but could've been so much more.

Deise Gael

thesultan wrote: »

They had two 38's and a 39.
Most non city teams have the same struggle for players

Apart from me being incorrect by a few months on the players ages what's your point?

Was it not an achievement by Lismore to win Munster? I went to see them in the Munster final as I support all Waterford clubs once they are representing the county. I'm not too sure but there seems to be a resentment to Lismore from other western clubs. Club rivalry is the lifeblood of the GAA but there seems to be a lot of begrudgery around their success up there compared to that of Ballysaggart's, Cappoquin's and Modeligo's. Not sure about.the reason for this

I'm not that well up on hurling in the west but I get the results of matches online and Ballyduff, Tallow and Cappoquin are fielding second teams so they seem to have more numbers.

It was just a shock to see a club like Lismore who along with Abbeyside were the standard bearers from the west of the county going back to the late 60s having only 21 lads who could tog out. I also saw that they had to give a walkover in the U21 championship because they couldn't field a team even though they are joined with Ballysaggart at that level.

So to me it's a great a achievement for the club and every good wish to them in the All Ireland semi final.

cul beag

Deise Gael wrote: »

Apart from me being incorrect by a few months on the players ages what's your point?

Was it not an achievement by Lismore to win Munster? I went to see them in the Munster final as I support all Waterford clubs once they are representing the county. I'm not too sure but there seems to be a resentment to Lismore from other western clubs. Club rivalry is the lifeblood of the GAA but there seems to be a lot of begrudgery around their success up there compared to that of Ballysaggart's, Cappoquin's and Modeligo's. Not sure about.the reason for this

I'm not that well up on hurling in the west but I get the results of matches online and Ballyduff, Tallow and Cappoquin are fielding second teams so they seem to have more numbers.

It was just a shock to see a club like Lismore who along with Abbeyside were the standard bearers from the west of the county going back to the late 60s having only 21 lads who could tog out. I also saw that they had to give a walkover in the U21 championship because they couldn't field a team even though they are joined with Ballysaggart at that level.

So to me it's a great a achievement for the club and every good wish to them in the All Ireland semi final.

A fantastic achievement by them. But even behind their pseudo names you can see the green eyed monsters coming out in their posts by certain contributors on here when Lismore's great year is written about. Comical really.

cul beag

thesultan wrote: »

They had two 38's and a 39.
Most non city teams have the same struggle for players

Meeeeoooooowwww!!!!!

mickotallow

cul beag wrote: »

Yes,which makes Lismore's success this year all the more remarkable. Great credit must go to everyone involved there. When you think of all the players that they train for Ballysaggart and Tourin up there aswell at underage it really is a hurling nursery.

What do you mean when you think of all the players they train for Ballysaggart and Tourin. Lismore have no underage club they are ST Cartages which is an amalgamation of Lismore and Ballysaggart. Just like numerous other teams in the county who have to join together to field at underage. To say that Lismore train Ballysaggart players is doing that club a disservice. We are joined underage with Shamrocks to form Cois Brid but to say that Tallow are training Shamrock players or vice versa is an insult to all the mentors and committee members who put in countless hours. If mentors took part only to improve players from their own club then the underage clubs would not survive.

mickotallow

Deise Gael wrote: »

Apart from me being incorrect by a few months on the players ages what's your point?

Was it not an achievement by Lismore to win Munster? I went to see them in the Munster final as I support all Waterford clubs once they are representing the county. I'm not too sure but there seems to be a resentment to Lismore from other western clubs. Club rivalry is the lifeblood of the GAA but there seems to be a lot of begrudgery around their success up there compared to that of Ballysaggart's, Cappoquin's and Modeligo's. Not sure about.the reason for this

I'm not that well up on hurling in the west but I get the results of matches online and Ballyduff, Tallow and Cappoquin are fielding second teams so they seem to have more numbers.

It was just a shock to see a club like Lismore who along with Abbeyside were the standard bearers from the west of the county going back to the late 60s having only 21 lads who could tog out. I also saw that they had to give a walkover in the U21 championship because they couldn't field a team even though they are joined with Ballysaggart at that level.

So to me it's a great a achievement for the club and every good wish to them in the All Ireland semi final.

It is a great achievement and fair dues to Lismore but maybe you should look into the reasons why they gave a walkover in the under 21 rather than just assuming it was down to being unable to field a team.

Yes Tallow and Ballyduff fielded second teams last year but how many games did they win? Having bodies to field a junior team does not mean you have more than 21 lads who could tog out for your first team. The GAA has to accommodate for lads who wish to play but are not willing to train 3 times a week for nearly nine months for 5 or 6 games and that's what the junior level does for some clubs ( not all) but don't confuse these players as being available for senior or intermediate.

mickotallow

cul beag wrote: »

A fantastic achievement by them. But even behind their pseudo names you can see the green eyed monsters coming out in their posts by certain contributors on here when Lismore's great year is written about. Comical really.

Just as I'm sure Lismore people were rejoicing at Cappoquin's success a few years ago. I would never expect someone from Lismore to celebrate any success Tallow would have. That is the nature of rivalry. At some stage one team is always more successful than the other. I acknowledge that this has been a fantastic year for Lismore and winning any title is a great achievement be it at county or munster level and I wish them all the best in the ALL IRELAND SEMI as I would always want a Waterford team to win. I am also glad that Lismore are back in the senior ranks. Having a strong hurling presence in the west can only improve us all. Having a strong Lismore team would only make Tallow stronger as we would have to push ourselves to beat them. And that can only be good for all of us.
But playing the poor mouth and saying that everyone is against them and not giving Lismore the credit they deserve is maybe one of the reasons they are not the most popular team around

culbaire

mickotallow wrote: »

Just as I'm sure Lismore people were rejoicing at Cappoquin's success a few years ago. I would never expect someone from Lismore to celebrate any success Tallow would have. That is the nature of rivalry. At some stage one team is always more successful than the other. I acknowledge that this has been a fantastic year for Lismore and winning any title is a great achievement be it at county or munster level and I wish them all the best in the ALL IRELAND SEMI as I would always want a Waterford team to win. I am also glad that Lismore are back in the senior ranks. Having a strong hurling presence in the west can only improve us all. Having a strong Lismore team would only make Tallow stronger as we would have to push ourselves to beat them. And that can only be good for all of us.
But playing the poor mouth and saying that everyone is against them and not giving Lismore the credit they deserve is maybe one of the reasons they are not the most popular team around

Certainly several Tallow supporters of my acquaintance begrudged Lismore and Cappoquin their successes in Munster. There is no great love between Tallow and Cappoquin.

mickotallow

culbaire wrote: »

Certainly several Tallow supporters of my acquaintance begrudged Lismore and Cappoquin their successes in Munster. There is no great love between Tallow and Cappoquin.

That's my whole point. It's called rivalry for a reason.

thesultan

Deise Gael wrote: »

Apart from me being incorrect by a few months on the players ages what's your point?

Was it not an achievement by Lismore to win Munster? I went to see them in the Munster final as I support all Waterford clubs once they are representing the county. I'm not too sure but there seems to be a resentment to Lismore from other western clubs. Club rivalry is the lifeblood of the GAA but there seems to be a lot of begrudgery around their success up there compared to that of Ballysaggart's, Cappoquin's and Modeligo's. Not sure about.the reason for this

I'm not that well up on hurling in the west but I get the results of matches online and Ballyduff, Tallow and Cappoquin are fielding second teams so they seem to have more numbers.

It was just a shock to see a club like Lismore who along with Abbeyside were the standard bearers from the west of the county going back to the late 60s having only 21 lads who could tog out. I also saw that they had to give a walkover in the U21 championship because they couldn't field a team even though they are joined with Ballysaggart at that level.

So to me it's a great a achievement for the club and every good wish to them in the All Ireland semi final.

I think I'm right in that landers and Bennett are both 38. Dan I thought was 39 going on forty next year. I would class most teams in the west with the expections of Abbey side, Dungarvan and fourmilewater of lacking in numbers with panels being threadbare. A few injuries to Ballyduff (who had a few back for the portlaw game) and they were really struggling.

Deise Gael

thesultan wrote: »

I think I'm right in that landers and Bennett are both 38. Dan I thought was 39 going on forty next year. I would class most teams in the west with the expections of Abbey side, Dungarvan and fourmilewater of lacking in numbers with panels being threadbare. A few injuries to Ballyduff (who had a few back for the portlaw game) and they were really struggling.

Thanks for proving my point and isn't that all the more reason to laud Lismore's achievement.

It might not make for great reading but because of the numbers the only way that the likes of Ballyduff, Lismore, Tallow and Cappoquin will win an adult hurling championship in the next generation is at intermediate level. So the question for those clubs is how do they keep players interested year on year while they are getting hammerings at Senior level.

Something has to give.

mountgomery burns

I dunno how many players Lismore have lost to emmigration and it may mean the numbers aren't huge at training. But you've got Seanie Barry, Ray Barry, Paudie Prender, John Prender, Jack Prender, Maurice, Dan and Jordan Shanahan all of whom have been on County panels from Minor up amd plenty of them prominent. They don't need an awful lot around that but I'll warrant there's a few more good hurlers I haven't mentioned.

They are a Senior club playing Intermediate. Fairplay, they've done all they can do so far and be great if they won the all-ireland but there's a lot of quality in that team.

I don't think the club is well liked in general, things like whoever was over the twitter account a few years ago suggesting De La Salle threw the match against Tallow to get rid of them being an example of why.

thesultan

The thing is that ballygunner have stepped ahead of everyone at senior. For all their talent they play a very defensive game but have perfected the short ball game. De LA Salle winners of the last years 21's and in this years final are the one team to put it up to them but seem slow to introduce youth.. Most teams if they hit form could put it up to anyone ( bar Ballygunner)

Deise Gael

thesultan wrote: »

The thing is that ballygunner have stepped ahead of everyone at senior. For all their talent they play a very defensive game but have perfected the short ball game. De LA Salle winners of the last years 21's and in this years final are the one team to put it up to them but seem slow to introduce youth.. Most teams if they hit form could put it up to anyone ( bar Ballygunner)

Ballygunner is under achieving for the numbers we have. We got what we deserved in the Munster final because of the defensive style we played and leaving Paudie Maher loose for the entire hour. There are many problems in our club, - discipline off the field is the main one- but numbers isn't one of them.

Tallow got to a county final last year and they didn't even show up. Their goalkeeper kept pucking the ball out to a full back who couldn't strike the ball more than twenty yards and we got at least five or six points off him. We didn't even have to come out and play which cost us later on in the Munster club. If Tallow had the balls to take us on last year as Ballyduff did in 2008 they would have been better served. The problem is Tallow will not get that chance again for a generation.

Looking at it Fourmilewater would be the best equipped to challenge from the west with the big numbers they have and with their big catchment area but they seem happy to gravitate towards the Nire and play football and take the easy option of a football medal. In reality it is a huge under achievement for them to have never even reached a senior county final.

thesultan

Deise Gael wrote: »

Ballygunner is under achieving for the numbers we have. We got what we deserved in the Munster final because of the defensive style we played and leaving Paudie Maher loose for the entire hour. There are many problems in our club, - discipline off the field is the main one- but numbers isn't one of them.

Tallow got to a county final last year and they didn't even show up. Their goalkeeper kept pucking the ball out to a full back who couldn't strike the ball more than twenty yards and we got at least five or six points off him. We didn't even have to come out and play which cost us later on in the Munster club. If Tallow had the balls to take us on last year as Ballyduff did in 2008 they would have been better served. The problem is Tallow will not get that chance again for a generation.

Looking at it Fourmilewater would be the best equipped to challenge from the west with the big numbers they have and with their big catchment area but they seem happy to gravitate towards the Nire and play football and take the easy option of a football medal. In reality it is a huge under achievement for them to have never even reached a senior county final.

Its very hard to play against ballygunner when they play such a Mass defence. They leave little space. They choked passage and never gave them a chsnce of having a run on them. Passage got a lot of long distance scores in the first half but it was never likely against the wide.
Its easy to say teams never had a go at them but its very hard to score when one has about three players on them.

DeiseDawg

thesultan wrote: »

Its very hard to play against ballygunner when they play such a Mass defence. They leave little space. They choked passage and never gave them a chsnce of having a run on them. Passage got a lot of long distance scores in the first half but it was never likely against the wide.
Its easy to say teams never had a go at them but its very hard to score when one has about three players on them.

Ballygunner will probably dominate for the coming years with their youthful demographic, compare that with the older part of the city where there's mt sion, De la Salle and roanmore and erins own all drawing from the same few estates with an older population. There's probably room for another club from the eastern part of the city.

thesultan

Was thinking that with Ballygunner s population and at times two teams at the same age , will it come a time when gaultier could start up a hurling club to cater for the players that don't get on the ballygunner teams?

robopaddy2

thesultan wrote: »

Was thinking that with Ballygunner s population and at times two teams at the same age , will it come a time when gaultier could start up a hurling club to cater for the players that don't get on the ballygunner teams?

Yea its already there, their called Passage

thesultan

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Yea its already there, their called Passage

Gaultier start up

robopaddy2

Just on Lismore, a few years ago they were one of the top 3 or 4 senior clubs, and their second team was a strong intermediate team. This year they were intermediate and I think they had a second string side in the Junior B' competition so that's surely a sign of a club that has regressed for whatever reason. Dan Shan and Landers were both instrumental in their intermediate success this year, can't be much left in either of them so no signs that they'll necessarily get much stronger over the next couple years either. But they still should have a enough quality to remain senior.

Stacksofwacks

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Just on Lismore, a few years ago they were one of the top 3 or 4 senior clubs, and their second team was a strong intermediate team. This year they were intermediate and I think they had a second string side in the Junior B' competition so that's surely a sign of a club that has regressed for whatever reason. Dan Shan and Landers were both instrumental in their intermediate success this year, can't be much left in either of them so no signs that they'll necessarily get much stronger over the next couple years either. But they still should have a enough quality to remain senior.

Dan Shan will do fine in around the square as a target man for another few years if he wants to. He is one of the most skillful hurlers in the country and smart aswell the way he brings others into play. Jack Prendergast looks a good prospect and Ray barry, Paudie Prendergast are intercounty level so i'd imagine they should do fine up senior for another while anyway. 2015 was just a bit of a shyte year for them, there shouldnt have been relegated really as they were far from the worst team in it, a bit of complacency set in after being so long up senior, the year down intermediate will do them good. The standard of the Waterford SHC isnt incredibly high at the minute,they could well be contenders next year if they have their act together

mountgomery burns

Deise Gael wrote: »

thesultan wrote: »

The thing is that ballygunner have stepped ahead of everyone at senior. For all their talent they play a very defensive game but have perfected the short ball game. De LA Salle winners of the last years 21's and in this years final are the one team to put it up to them but seem slow to introduce youth.. Most teams if they hit form could put it up to anyone ( bar Ballygunner)

Ballygunner is under achieving for the numbers we have. We got what we deserved in the Munster final because of the defensive style we played and leaving Paudie Maher loose for the entire hour. There are many problems in our club, - discipline off the field is the main one- but numbers isn't one of them.

Tallow got to a county final last year and they didn't even show up. Their goalkeeper kept pucking the ball out to a full back who couldn't strike the ball more than twenty yards and we got at least five or six points off him. We didn't even have to come out and play which cost us later on in the Munster club. If Tallow had the balls to take us on last year as Ballyduff did in 2008 they would have been better served. The problem is Tallow will not get that chance again for a generation.

Looking at it Fourmilewater would be the best equipped to challenge from the west with the big numbers they have and with their big catchment area but they seem happy to gravitate towards the Nire and play football and take the easy option of a football medal. In reality it is a huge under achievement for them to have never even reached a senior county final.

What huge numbers have FMW? They could barely field a Junior team, similar to Ballyduff and Tallow. Far less numbers than The Dungarvan based teams who have a much bigger pick, and Dungarvan themselves who are more interested in football than hurling.

I believe the Nire club is older than Fourmile, and from a young age players will be playing both codes so why would you expect automatically they'll get to Senior and ditch football?

The catchment area spans a lot of uninhabited or sparsely populated mountain land. And 15 years ago, Fourmewater hurling club was unheard of as a hurling force in Waterford.

Rather than underachieving, I think its a fair testament to the coaches in the hurling club and the players themselves that they've had 5 players represent Waterford at Senior level in those 15 years.

thesultan

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What huge numbers have FMW? They could barely field a Junior team, similar to Ballyduff and Tallow. Far less numbers than The Dungarvan based teams who have a much bigger pick, and Dungarvan themselves who are more interested in football than hurling.

I believe the Nire club is older than Fourmile, and from a young age players will be playing both codes so why would you expect automatically they'll get to Senior and ditch football?

The catchment area spans a lot of uninhabited or sparsely populated mountain land. And 15 years ago, Fourmewater hurling club was unheard of as a hurling force in Waterford.

Rather than underachieving, I think its a fair testament to the coaches in the hurling club and the players themselves that they've had 5 players represent Waterford at Senior level in those 15 years.

Abbeyside have vast numbers.. I know of three ex Waterford senior hurlers who have their own and are training underage teams there. The fact that all three would have been very good for their own clubs it shows the experience Abbey side are getting.

culbaire

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What huge numbers have FMW? They could barely field a Junior team, similar to Ballyduff and Tallow. Far less numbers than The Dungarvan based teams who have a much bigger pick, and Dungarvan themselves who are more interested in football than hurling.

I believe the Nire club is older than Fourmile, and from a young age players will be playing both codes so why would you expect automatically they'll get to Senior and ditch football?

The catchment area spans a lot of uninhabited or sparsely populated mountain land. And 15 years ago, Fourmewater hurling club was unheard of as a hurling force in Waterford.

Rather than underachieving, I think its a fair testament to the coaches in the hurling club and the players themselves that they've had 5 players represent Waterford at Senior level in those 15 years.

(1) Hurling is the number one game in the Dungarvan GAA Club.
(2) In the 1960s and 1970s Fourmilewater had fine Junior/ Intermediate hurling teams. Not true to say that Fourmile has become a hurling force in Waterford only over the last fifteen years.

willbeuptuesday

Manager Merry go round, its silly season on the manager front has anyone a clue on who is been lined up by clubs? I heard that Benji Whelan has left the Nire and is being linked with Clonea anyone else hear this or other appointments?

debok

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

Manager Merry go round, its silly season on the manager front has anyone a clue on who is been lined up by clubs? I heard that Benji Whelan has left the Nire and is being linked with Clonea anyone else hear this or other appointments?

Denis welsh is gone from ballygunner.

mountgomery burns

culbaire wrote: »

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What huge numbers have FMW? They could barely field a Junior team, similar to Ballyduff and Tallow. Far less numbers than The Dungarvan based teams who have a much bigger pick, and Dungarvan themselves who are more interested in football than hurling.

I believe the Nire club is older than Fourmile, and from a young age players will be playing both codes so why would you expect automatically they'll get to Senior and ditch football?

The catchment area spans a lot of uninhabited or sparsely populated mountain land. And 15 years ago, Fourmewater hurling club was unheard of as a hurling force in Waterford.

Rather than underachieving, I think its a fair testament to the coaches in the hurling club and the players themselves that they've had 5 players represent Waterford at Senior level in those 15 years.

(1) Hurling is the number one game in the Dungarvan GAA Club.
(2) In the 1960s and 1970s Fourmilewater had fine Junior/ Intermediate hurling teams. Not true to say that Fourmile has become a hurling force in Waterford only over the last fifteen years.

Sorry that was a typo, my point was Hurling is number one in Dungarvan not split like FMW/The Nire and so with their numbers should be in a stronger position to challenge (if numbers is the basis for the argument).

Big difference between having good intermediate and Junior teams and being no1 Contenders for the senior title though, isn't there?