Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

mountgomery burns

What is arrogant about going for a goal? We can't complain about not scoring enough goals and then criticize a fella for trying to get one. If he feels he can beat his man take him on, he did get two goals v Wexford two years ago.

HatchetMan7

If you look at all our league games so far it certainly seems that the aim was to stay in division 1a and once that was achieved build towards the first round of the championship after that. Any time you see this teams intensity drop considerably compared to the early rounds of the league to me that makes me think they're doing some heavy intense training leading up the said below par performances (at least that's what i hope). The limerick game will tell us more but i think its the first round of the championship against Clare that we'll get a true reflection of where this team is heading.
As was mentioned already the lack of goals is a real concern but they must be working on this in training because every man and his dog knows you'll win nothing in championship without hitting the net at least once or twice per game. I'm hoping that McGrath and the management team are keeping their cards close to their chest till the championship and we'll see something different against Clare.

carter10

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

If you look at all our league games so far it certainly seems that the aim was to stay in division 1a and once that was achieved build towards the first round of the championship after that. Any time you see this teams intensity drop considerably compared to the early rounds of the league to me that makes me think they're doing some heavy intense training leading up the said below par performances (at least that's what i hope). The limerick game will tell us more but i think its the first round of the championship against Clare that we'll get a true reflection of where this team is heading.
As was mentioned already the lack of goals is a real concern but they must be working on this in training because every man and his dog knows you'll win nothing in championship without hitting the net at least once or twice per game. I'm hoping that McGrath and the management team are keeping their cards close to their chest till the championship and we'll see something different against Clare.

We won't see anything different against Clare

dobbs2210

mountgomery burns wrote: »

What is arrogant about going for a goal? We can't complain about not scoring enough goals and then criticize a fella for trying to get one. If he feels he can beat his man take him on, he did get two goals v Wexford two years ago.

Here...here. crazy statement. Chap took on full back and went for jugular...people always pontificate about kilkenny's ruthless abilty to go for the jugular when other teams take the easy tap over. Fair play to Colin for showing the courage and drive to back himself and go for it.

HatchetMan7

carter10 wrote: »

We won't see anything different against Clare

Will we see wholesale changes to the teams tactics against Clare absolutely not and we should hope we don't. Does anyone like the idea of playing a sweeper and the answer is no but it was a necessary evil to stop shipping a high number of goals so that a young team can build confidence. To build a team that can win an All Ireland takes time and some of it is trial and error. Some people think McGrath is slow to get rid of the more defensive style of play but he would be crazy to just ditch that system within a one or two year period. It has to be a slower process then that to keep confidence high and maintain consistency in performance.

There has been improvements in some areas compared to last year such as high fielding. So i don't believe this team has stopped improving its just at a slower rate than people would have liked but its unrealistic to think we can go from a soft touch to winning an All Ireland within three years. This team isn't going to peak for another 2-3 years at the very least. To build a team capable of winning an All Ireland takes time and a great amount of effort, unfortunately to destroy all that work takes very little time so a softly softly approach is not just needed but is essential for a more sustained period of success.

robopaddy2

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Will we see wholesale changes to the teams tactics against Clare absolutely not and we should hope we don't. Does anyone like the idea of playing a sweeper and the answer is no but it was a necessary evil to stop shipping a high number of goals so that a young team can build confidence. To build a team that can win an All Ireland takes time and some of it is trial and error. Some people think McGrath is slow to get rid of the more defensive style of play but he would be crazy to just ditch that system within a one or two year period. It has to be a slower process then that to keep confidence high and maintain consistency in performance.

There has been improvements in some areas compared to last year such as high fielding. So i don't believe this team has stopped improving its just at a slower rate than people would have liked but its unrealistic to think we can go from a soft touch to winning an All Ireland within three years. This team isn't going to peak for another 2-3 years at the very least. To build a team capable of winning an All Ireland takes time and a great amount of effort, unfortunately to destroy all that work takes very little time so a softly softly approach is not just needed but is essential for a more sustained period of success.

Not the more popular point of view but one I do agree (or want to agree) wholeheartedly with. The challenge for management in my opinion is to keep the players on board with the ideology. That will be very difficult when the guys can't express themselves as much as they would like out on the pitch. One guy on his own in a full forward line chasing dead end balls or some our most lethal young scorers being employed 40 or 50 yards out from goal working themselves into the ground for little or no exchange on the scoreboard. How long before the players get tired and stop believing in it? How do you keep them motivated? They key is to keep winning matches of course, that is ultimately what it is all about. But there is a thin line separating success and failure. An early championship exit this summer could easily happen given the strength of the hurling championship, where would that leave in terms of our progression / development. Back at square one?

Horseboxhead

Darragh fives ?, anyone?, What's the story, being rested now along time?, if fit, would have expected him to play, seems strange, unless he's injured, and i think we need him , for alot of reasons, yesterday's game, as Barca manager said about el clasico , that game no longer exists, and christ lads we won, how many times have we lost those games, and playing badly, our style is becoming very rigid in its unwillingness to progress, but we won, so ????.
I wonder does our current style, suit the league, once you have the work put in, fitness wise, hard to beat , hard to break down, super fit, if matched with intensity very hard to play against in feb/march, when we thought we were flying, played Kilkenny [Just back nothing done], Cork[beat Galway,HTF?, Anthony Cunningham Pissing himself], and Tipp, Drew with Galway bet wexford, so Looks fine, but if you go on Performences, we are not moving on from a side hard to beat, fit, Organised Defensively, and works hard, get's you so far, and it has , but results at this time of the year can be very deciptive, and after along time, still talking about Potential, and how guys will progress, Time is now People, C'mon Derek, time for Act 2, time to put teams to bed, or is there and act 2?, is this it, never get hammered again, but never win Big Games, V an inform Tipp or Kilkenny side, ........... Truth will come in August/Sep , but am getting sick of being told How many of our Players are 19/20/21, its the Profile of most intercounty teams now, so what's the big Plan?, Anyone???.
We Won, have Lost them games before, so onwards, Should beat Limerick, even at this pace, as they are unfit,dis organised , and TJ... one game away from being shafted[always the way with Limerick Manager though], and if we beat Limerick the way we beat wexford, every body will be saying Semi's there to be won ,yippee ,,,, but Performence matters, and come June/july/ August will matter a whole pile more.

Psychedelic

Very disappointing performance yesterday, actually feels like a loss to me. By the sounds of it we got played off the park for much of the game and deserved to lose. I'm losing faith in this system now and have little hope of us winning the Munster or All Ireland. I was hoping the system would be developed, but it looks like a rinse & repeat of last year which won't be enough for us to win the All Ireland or even Munster.

Obviously it's great to stay up in 1A which was the primary objective, but another objective should have been to experiment to find ways of scoring goals. We're barely even able to create goal-scoring chances, it's all 50/50 pot-shots from distance.

Motivator

Psychedelic wrote: »

Very disappointing performance yesterday, actually feels like a loss to me. By the sounds of it we got played off the park for much of the game and deserved to lose

Some comment to make and you not even at the game boy.

KevIRL

Double header in thurles Sunday week confirmed for the league semi finals. Waterford-Limerick game on first at 2pm

Psychedelic

Motivator wrote: »

Some comment to make and you not even at the game boy.

How do you mean? I don't need to be at the game to be disappointed by the result, and I don't need to be at the game to be disappointed by the performance, going on what I heard during WLR's commentary of the game and the analysis after.

mountgomery burns

Psychedelic wrote: »

How do you mean? I don't need to be at the game to be disappointed by the result, and I don't need to be at the game to be disappointed by the performance, going on what I heard during WLR's commentary of the game and the analysis after.

Probably a bit much to blame 'the system' for a bad performance when you're not at the match though to be fair.

It seems to be fairly default on here when things go wrong. But when we win games there it's not mentioned positively.

There's got to be some balance between the two.

decies

When will tickets go on sale ? Am thinking local centra here.

mickmackmcgoo

Minor team versus cork
. Billy Nolan (Roanmore)

2. Conor Giles Doran (De La Salle)

3. James Flavin (Ardmore)

4. Darragh McGrath (Abbeyside)

5. Donal Power (Passage)

6. Eoghan Murray (Ballyduff Upper)

7. Michael O'Brien (Ballinameela)

8. Eoin McGrath (Butlerstown)

9. Harry Ruddle Redmond (Ballygunner)

10. Jack Prendergast (Lismore)

11. Dylan Guiry (Fourmilewater)

12. Cathal Curran (Brickey Rangers)

13. Michael Mahony (Ballygunner) – Capt.

14. Neil Montgomery (Abbeyside)

15. Thomas Douglas (De La Salle)

tomwaterford

Motivator wrote: »

Some comment to make and you not even at the game boy.

I was at the game...and pretty much taught Wexford done enough to win...but slightly lacked quality forwards to score


I'd imagine the score chances created statistic for this match would point to the glaringly obvious



Outside of Maurice shanagan and Mahoney in defence....(maybe brick)....all the others will have to up their performances massively or Limerick will beat them pulling up

skaface

Are the semi finals being shown on Tg4 ??

The blue blaa

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Minor team versus cork
. Billy Nolan (Roanmore)

2. Conor Giles Doran (De La Salle)

3. James Flavin (Ardmore)

4. Darragh McGrath (Abbeyside)

5. Donal Power (Passage)

6. Eoghan Murray (Ballyduff Upper)

7. Michael O'Brien (Ballinameela)

8. Eoin McGrath (Butlerstown)

9. Harry Ruddle Redmond (Ballygunner)

10. Jack Prendergast (Lismore)

11. Dylan Guiry (Fourmilewater)

12. Cathal Curran (Brickey Rangers)

13. Michael Mahony (Ballygunner) – Capt.

14. Neil Montgomery (Abbeyside)

15. Thomas Douglas (De La Salle)

Not a bad team best of luck to all involved

Waternut

The blue blaa wrote: »

Not a bad team best of luck to all involved

Interesting that Waters from Dungarvan didn't start or Barron from Fourmilewater. Apart from that, its pretty much as expected.

seananigans

The Waterford Minor Hurling Team to face Cork in the Electric Ireland Munster Minor Hurling Championship Quarter-Final in Walsh Park on Wednesday 6th April at 6:30pm has been announced!
1. Billy Nolan (Roanmore)
2. Conor Giles Doran (De La Salle)
3. James Flavin (Ardmore)
4. Darragh McGrath (Abbeyside)
5. Donal Power (Passage)
6. Eoghan Murray (Ballyduff Upper)
7. Michael O'Brien (Ballinameela)
8. Eoin McGrath (Butlerstown)
9. Harry Ruddle Redmond (Ballygunner)
10. Jack Prendergast (Lismore)
11. Dylan Guiry (Fourmilewater)
12. Cathal Curran (Brickey Rangers)
13. Michael Mahony (Ballygunner) – Capt.
14. Neil Montgomery (Abbeyside)
15. Thomas Douglas (De La Salle)

The blue blaa

Waternut wrote: »

Interesting that Waters from Dungarvan didn't start or Barron from Fourmilewater. Apart from that, its pretty much as expected.

Id of thought theyd have Glen Waters playing. He must be injured because he was centre forward last year and is very promising player. Young Tom Barron is a real prospect i thought he would been corner back but young Doran is also very good and had good year with De La Salle harty.
I dont know the Guiry chap or the Montgomery lad maybe someone else can shed some light.
Forwards may be too reliant on Jack Prender & Thomas Tonto Douglas for scores.
Be great to get a win over Cork the lad Evan Sheehan is a nice player I'd earmark hin as their danger man.

Cake Man

Is Michael Mahony younger brother of Pauric and Philip?


Is Waters and Barron on the bench?


Best of luck to all involved tomorrow night, home advantage is usually worth a few points head start at this grade so hopefully we pull through. I'm guessing WLR will only be doing updates?

robopaddy2

Big mistake I think not utilising Billy Nolan out the field this year. (As good a keeper as je is) Maybe they were really stuck for back up keepers but your best players should be out the field imo. Best of luck to the lads but ive a feeling it will be very tough

Fireball07

tomwaterford wrote: »

Outside of Maurice shanagan and Mahoney in defence....(maybe brick)....all the others will have to up their performances massively or Limerick will beat them pulling up

Think you overrate us a bit. We had a good win against Dublin but all other known form over the past 18 months suggests that ye are a good bit ahead of us, and should beat us if ye want to. I'd be surprised if ye blew us away, it's not something that the system really caters for but winning is still winning.

There's no use slaughtering a team in a shootout if you get caught on the hop against a team who tightens up, like has happened to Tipp in recent times.


If we do beat ye, I'll be shocked and over the moon.

robopaddy2

Fireball07 wrote: »

Think you overrate us a bit. We had a good win against Dublin but all other known form over the past 18 months suggests that ye are a good bit ahead of us, and should beat us if ye want to. I'd be surprised if ye blew us away, it's not something that the system really caters for but winning is still winning.

There's no use slaughtering a team in a shootout if you get caught on the hop against a team who tightens up, like has happened to Tipp in recent times.


If we do beat ye, I'll be shocked and over the moon.

I think maybe theres a perception that because ye had the edge over us at minor level for a couple years with some savage battles and now a lot of the top players from both those sides have broken through that it will continue. But I still think were a bit ahead of ye in terms of development, our lads have made the transition to senior a bit quicker, while yere lads have obviously gone and done the business at u21. Yeve been inconsistent enough under TJ Ryan in general though, I do believe we will beat ye if we play like we can. But a big year for both counties.

Fireball07

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I think maybe theres a perception that because ye had the edge over us at minor level for a couple years with some savage battles and now a lot of the top players from both those sides have broken through that it will continue. But I still think were a bit ahead of ye in terms of development, our lads have made the transition to senior a bit quicker, while yere lads have obviously gone and done the business at u21. Yeve been inconsistent enough under TJ Ryan in general though, I do believe we will beat ye if we play like we can. But a big year for both counties.

I've no doubt that we had some fine minor teams, with great talent. But they are only starting to come through now- Cian Lynch is the only one of those to have made his Championship debut. And that minor team didn't peak until 2014 as well, the year after you won the All-Ireland.

Obviously there's no guarantee that we'll get a lot of players from that team, sometimes players don't transition but Nash, Morrissey, English and Ronan Lynch should all make their debuts this year in the Championship.

But we've been a lot more reluctant than Derek to trust in our youngsters at senior level. You could argue that it makes sense in a way, we never benefited from our 3-in-a-row 21 team to any great extent at senior level, Kilkenny very rarely throw youngsters in. But the argument against that is that Kilkenny don't have to because of the quality there and if they are good enough, then they deserve their spot. That includes talent + discipline + fitness + suitability for senior intercounty.


But as for Sunday week, I'd be surprised if we win. The first time we've played a sweeper in a competitive match was last weekend. If that is how we are going to continue forward, I'd expect teething problems.

Orizio

The Cork side to face Waterford in Wednesday evening's Munster MHC has been named.

1 Ger Collins - Ballinhassig
2 Paul Lyons - Mallow
3 Niall O'Leary - Castlelyons- Captain
4 Sean O'Leary Hayes - Midleton
5 John Cooper - Eire Og
6 Ryan Walsh - Cuchulann's
7 Eoghan Clifford - Cloughduv
8 Cian O'Mahony - Ballinhassig
9 Robbie Bourke - Ballincollig
10 John Sullivan - Blackrock
11 Matthew Bradley - Aghabullogue
12 Stephen Condon - Harbour Rovers
13 Evan Sheehan - Na Piarsaigh
14 Josh Beausang - St Colman"s
15 Liam Healy -Sarsfield

Subs:
16 Barry Kenneally - Cuchulann's
17 Darragh Guiney - Shandrum
18 Ross Howell - Douglas
19 Jeremy Saich - Kilworth
20 Kevin Murphy - Killeagh
21 Danny Gunning - Na Piarsaigh
22 Brian Buckley- Shandrum
23 John Geary- Shandrum
24 Brian Turnbull - Douglas

JesusRef

Orizio wrote: »

The Cork side to face Waterford in Wednesday evening's Munster MHC has been named.

1 Ger Collins - Ballinhassig
2 Paul Lyons - Mallow
3 Niall O'Leary - Castlelyons- Captain
4 Sean O'Leary Hayes - Midleton
5 John Cooper - Eire Og
6 Ryan Walsh - Cuchulann's
7 Eoghan Clifford - Cloughduv
8 Cian O'Mahony - Ballinhassig
9 Robbie Bourke - Ballincollig
10 John Sullivan - Blackrock
11 Matthew Bradley - Aghabullogue
12 Stephen Condon - Harbour Rovers
13 Evan Sheehan - Na Piarsaigh
14 Josh Beausang - St Colman"s
15 Liam Healy -Sarsfield

Subs:
16 Barry Kenneally - Cuchulann's
17 Darragh Guiney - Shandrum
18 Ross Howell - Douglas
19 Jeremy Saich - Kilworth
20 Kevin Murphy - Killeagh
21 Danny Gunning - Na Piarsaigh
22 Brian Buckley- Shandrum
23 John Geary- Shandrum
24 Brian Turnbull - Douglas

I haven't heard of cuchullans, harbour rovers or Shandrum, new amalgamations or clubs on the up?

Orizio

Kanturk, Glanworth and Newtown/Dromina respectively. St Colmans are a Cloyne/Russell Rovers amalgamation.

decies

Went into centra to get tickets for the semi final , only juvenile tickets coming up !! What's that about !!!

courtylad

seananigans wrote: »

The Waterford Minor Hurling Team to face Cork in the Electric Ireland Munster Minor Hurling Championship Quarter-Final in Walsh Park on Wednesday 6th April at 6:30pm has been announced!
1. Billy Nolan (Roanmore)
2. Conor Giles Doran (De La Salle)
3. James Flavin (Ardmore)
4. Darragh McGrath (Abbeyside)
5. Donal Power (Passage)
6. Eoghan Murray (Ballyduff Upper)
7. Michael O'Brien (Ballinameela)
8. Eoin McGrath (Butlerstown)
9. Harry Ruddle Redmond (Ballygunner)
10. Jack Prendergast (Lismore)
11. Dylan Guiry (Fourmilewater)
12. Cathal Curran (Brickey Rangers)
13. Michael Mahony (Ballygunner) – Capt.
14. Neil Montgomery (Abbeyside)
15. Thomas Douglas (De La Salle)

Dylan Guiry - Fourmilewater/The Nire, was the County Minor football Captain last year. Third year on the minor footballers played corner forward - wing forward in 2014, corner forward and captain 2015 probably be centre forward next week in the football. Great footballer, starts for the Nire corner forward at senior, first year on the minor hurlers. More of an athlete than a natural hurler but the majority of your duals are.

Neil Montgomery, probably the best Minor footballer in the county last year asides from Conor Prunty. Abbeyside/Balinacourty. Was on the county minor footballers last year at wing back. Used to be a savage rugby player for Munster and gave it up this year. Dropped off the footballers to concentrate on hurling. Interesting position to play him in, big lad, quick, will be about pumping quick ball into him for him to break id say. Would of saw him elsewhere out the pitch. Natural Wing back, Midfielder, Centre Forward. If he stayed on the Co Footballers this year he would of been captain.


Biggest Threat for us - Cathal Curran - Brickey Rangers, brother of Cormac Curran, surprised hes not centre back midfield. First year on County Minor hurlers and footballers. Got dropped last year from the 40 on the hurlers but came into his element over the summer at minor - intermediate. Not a natural wing forward, far too good to play there... Farther the championship goes I say he'll end up out at midfield/centre back. Biggest threat for us going forward though, like his brother great to take a score. If left in the forward however he could be the top scorer asides from the free taker.

Glen Water - Dungarvan is Injured last I heard. Should be back for the next round. Wasnt centre forward last year, started corner forward against tipp and i dont think he was against limerick... Was Andy Molumphy if i remember correctly. Will probably return to maybe in corner forward or midfield.

Who should be there? Conor Whelan - Brickey Rangers, highest scorer in Minor division 2 last year, has another year on the age, quick, strong and fast, was a good performer in u21 when brickeys ran into the u21 Western B final against Fourmilewater. A future waterford senior hurler. Should be played Midfield - Forwards.
Liam O' Connell - St. Olivers/Gerdlines, Last year minor, doesnt tog for county it seems. Should be starting football aswell as the hurling. Midfield - Forwards. Best player for Gerdlines last year in both codes and consistant St. Olivers performer at minor u21.

The weakness? The 6 backs are the weakness, play the hand your dealt from there is more there. Individual only Darragh McGrath will play co senior and is a standout. Rest are average for this level. Would of played Cathal Curran at Centre back, Eoghan Murray and Michael O' Brien on the wings. Billy Nolan should be out the field and probably will be after this game. There are decent keepers in this county. Have a suspicion we will stay in it til last 15 may even lead at half time but I think cork will have the quality. Decent squad, has to be shaped abit different, where players are playing etc. A loss might what this team needs, losing gives them a playoff second chance and the management will see the flaws in the system player wise. I understand picking the best team possible, lads injured, great to win straight away if this team can knock off cork with ease. But they scrap over cork and think its a winning formation will these players in them positions get knocked off by limerick or tipp. Remember 2013? Lost the first game to Tipp. The team got reshaped and we won an all-ireland. Sometimes its better to lose and see what needs to be fixed. Please do not quote that<

---

I do not want to hear about winning mentality. Alex Ferguson will tell you losing is almost as good as winning at times. Shows you what you need to fix to win. Problem may be, and I hope Cork wont exploit it is our wing backs. Michael O' Brien is a gifted hurler, tall, strong, great catch. Not fast enough for the position. Cork have any sense and done abit of scouting they'll know to play a small trickly colin dunford esque player there and exploit that flank. By pass our half back line aerial and we might lose the game. 2) Conor Curran - Ring, 3) Jack Lacey - Dungarvan, 4) Darragh McGrath. 2 & 3 are late changes it seems if you go by WATERFORD GAA twitter. Curran is a dual footballer in his 2nd year and hasnt played quality hurling so he may struggle, abit slow, built like a tank though so it will depend who he marks and how he reacts to a higher level. Lacey im okay with. Small sized full back line. Darragh McGrath 5ft 7-9, Conor Curran 5ft 7-10, Jack Lacey, 5ft 10 - 6ft 1.

Don't know what them changes mean. Just saw them there on Munster GAA. Hopefully it will be the start to a decent campaign and bag a munster at the minimum. Havent one won in years even when we won the all ireland!!!! And if you have any further questions on waterford GAA my book is available on Amazon .