Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

danganabu

Dick phelan wrote: »

Christ we didn't loose because of tactics or lack of effort, Unlike the Tipp game where i do feel if we played to our potential we could have won that game, KK are just at the moment a far better team then us, KK have forwards like Reid, Hogan, Larkin ect Waterford don't have one forward like that. We did well in defense but KK dominated the game won ball far better then us and had they taken more points in the first half rather then drop it in and try for goal they could have won by 9-10 points. Not a criticism on our lads their effort last Sunday and all this year has been outstanding there was nothing they could have done last Sunday that would win that game.

On this years form Maurice is streets ahead of Larkin. Dunford every bit as good if not better than C Fennelly and last and Brick on a par with Walter Walsh.

Mountainlad

danganabu wrote: »

On this years form Maurice is streets ahead of Larkin. Dunford every bit as good if not better than C Fennelly and last and Brick on a par with Walter Walsh.

In fairness you're comparing Maurice to TJ Reid as they are their two best forwards, or Richie Hogan and he wouldn't measure up against those as good as he's been. Brick v Larkin I think have contributed similarly, maybe Brick a bit more. Walter Walsh v Dillon and I'd rather Walsh. Shane Bennett v Aylward and to be honest long term I'd rather Bennett. If he was in that Kilkenny forward line I'd say he'd be going very well too.

They are a good bit ahead up front at the moment but another years conditioning and possibly another player or two in the mix or positional changes could cast a new light on it.

danganabu

Mountainlad wrote: »

In fairness you're comparing Maurice to TJ Reid as they are their two best forwards, or Richie Hogan and he wouldn't measure up against those as good as he's been. Brick v Larkin I think have contributed similarly, maybe Brick a bit more. Walter Walsh v Dillon and I'd rather Walsh. Shane Bennett v Aylward and to be honest long term I'd rather Bennett. If he was in that Kilkenny forward line I'd say he'd be going very well too.

They are a good bit ahead up front at the moment but another years conditioning and possibly another player or two in the mix or positional changes could cast a new light on it.

Oh I agree, but it was the claim that Waterford had no forward playing as well as ''Larkin etc.'' that I was referring too, when you take out Reid and Hogan Waterfords forwards are on a par.

Mountainlad

danganabu wrote: »

Oh I agree, but it was the claim that Waterford had no forward playing as well as ''Larkin etc.'' that I was referring too, when you take out Reid and Hogan Waterfords forwards are on a par.

Wouldn't that be wonderful!

On the Ball Boy

I honestly feel we wouldn't have had the year we had without the system we played, it was too soon for this team to go toe to toe 15 on 15 with the top 2 teams but in time I hope we can.The Kilkenny forwards are top drawer, Richie Hogan in particular is lethal, he only needs a half yard of space to get his shot away and his striking of the ball is unreal, Their backs will always try find a man when in possession but they also have the knowledge that if they are in trouble they can just launch long, knowing that their forwards are well capable of winning ball in the air, we just don't have those players at the moment but we are getting closer, 2 huge learning days for these players v Tipp and KK, hopefully Derek and the lads can stay on and we can all look forward to next year, still feel the U-21 game against Clare was the most disappointing result of the year.

Mountainlad

There was one point Hogan got which just typifies the man in the second half, spun on a sixpence and over. His balance is unreal. Funnily enough I think the sunday game still managed to use that clip as a stick to beat Waterford with.

On the Ball Boy

If you put aside the championship games alone that those players have played, and we remind ourselves that those Kk forwards have been playing on in training alone against JJ, Tommy Walsh.Jackie Tyrell, Brian Hogan, Mick Kavanagh,Paul Murphy,Buckley, Joyce, . They are seasoned inter county hurlers, that's some place to serve your apprenticeship. I just think we need a bit of perspective of the task we had on Sunday, and I'm not trying to come across defeatist, it takes time to get to that level, and I'm sure the lads learned a lot from it

Royal Legend

danganabu wrote: »

Oh I agree, but it was the claim that Waterford had no forward playing as well as ''Larkin etc.'' that I was referring too, when you take out Reid and Hogan Waterfords forwards are on a par.

rose tinted glasses there i think, Larkin is the one holding them all together, similar to Shefflin IMO, huge skill and vision, unreal workrate, i would advise you to watch him for a match and see then what he does.
The Waterford forwards are two maybe three years plus behind Kilkenny in terms of skill and knowhow. Aylward is seen as one of the next big things, (don't forget it took TJ a number of years to become this consistent) Fennelly has the ability to be MOTM in the final, plus he is a bigger goal threat than any of the Waterford forwards, Walter is probably the weak link in the forward line, but Cody sees something in him although he could lose his place for the final.

robopaddy2

Royal Legend wrote: »

rose tinted glasses there i think, Larkin is the one holding them all together, similar to Shefflin IMO, huge skill and vision, unreal workrate, i would advise you to watch him for a match and see then what he does.
The Waterford forwards are two maybe three years plus behind Kilkenny in terms of skill and knowhow. Aylward is seen as one of the next big things, (don't forget it took TJ a number of years to become this consistent) Fennelly has the ability to be MOTM in the final, plus he is a bigger goal threat than any of the Waterford forwards, Walter is probably the weak link in the forward line, but Cody sees something in him although he could lose his place for the final.

Look we can compare our lads to the KK forwards all day long, on paper many of them lads at underage, colleges and Fitzgibbon level wouldn't have been rated as being at a level any higher or lower than many of our lads. They would have competed with and against each other but you'd never pick out which lads were the Kilkenny lads and which weren't if you didn't know. But when it comes to putting on that stripy jersey for Cody it just seems to bring a different type of animal out of fellah's altogether. They come through a good underage system as good players but its only when Cody gets a hold of them that they seem to just step up to another level and develop in a way that seems to be far superior to guys of similar ability in other counties. The physique, manic aggression, hunger, workrate and savage intensity and of course skill levels are something that in all honesty no other county seems to be able to compete with. Its more than just about having a good conveyor belt of underage talent as you can see with Galway over the years. Galway have been KK's biggest rivals as regards underage success since the early naughties, both having won the same amount of minors and u21s, but there is simply no comparision when it comes to senior level and the quality of the fellahs that come through the system. So yes we can argue all day about how some KK forwards would be of a similar ability to our lads but they operate out of a superior system that no other county seems to be able to match.

PF28

Amprodude wrote: »

What I said was he didn't give a brief statement about the game but a full storybook analysis of Waterford and their year and he refused pretty much to keep it short. Fair enough he gave a statement but he was almost smiling because he was on TV. You never see Kerry or Killkenny doing this when they are defeated because they would be too disgusted in losing in the first place, whereas teams like Waterford have players doing full interviews after a defeat. Yous haven't beaten Kilkenny since 1958, I don't know how any of your players could be upbeat to such a statistic but end of the day some of the posters on here wilk call me a muppet and that's fine but facts are facts and the history books and Waterfords record against Kilkenny speaks for itself.

I think what Amprodude is trying to say is that you would never see kilkenny players educated, well spoken and giving an informed post match interview. Rather be talkin through the side of your mouth, spittin calf nuts and lickin your lips. Jesus lads this is how you win all irelands, post match interviews, how did we never realise this down here in waterford, thanks for the advice ampro. Must start enrolling our future hurlers in english classes in south kilkenny ðŸ˜

deiseach

robopaddy2 wrote: »

But when it comes to putting on that stripy jersey for Cody it just seems to bring a different type of animal out of fellah's altogether. They come through a good underage system as good players but its only when Cody gets a hold of them that they seem to just step up to another level and develop in a way that seems to be far superior to guys of similar ability in other counties. The physique, manic aggression, hunger, workrate and savage intensity and of course skill levels are something that in all honesty no other county seems to be able to compete with. Its more than just about having a good conveyor belt of underage talent as you can see with Galway over the years. Galway have been KK's biggest rivals as regards underage success since the early naughties, both having won the same amount of minors and u21s, but there is simply no comparision when it comes to senior level and the quality of the fellahs that come through the system. So yes we can argue all day about how some KK forwards would be of a similar ability to our lads but they operate out of a superior system that no other county seems to be able to match.

This. Alex Ferguson has Brian Cody posters in his bedroom.

danganabu

Royal Legend wrote: »

rose tinted glasses there i think, Larkin is the one holding them all together, similar to Shefflin IMO, huge skill and vision, unreal workrate, i would advise you to watch him for a match and see then what he does.
The Waterford forwards are two maybe three years plus behind Kilkenny in terms of skill and knowhow. Aylward is seen as one of the next big things, (don't forget it took TJ a number of years to become this consistent) Fennelly has the ability to be MOTM in the final, plus he is a bigger goal threat than any of the Waterford forwards, Walter is probably the weak link in the forward line, but Cody sees something in him although he could lose his place for the final.

Well I'm not from Waterford so that blows you're rose tinted glasses theory out the window!

What you say of Larkin was very true two years ago, this years Leinster Final aside he has been in decline for two years now.

Fennelly had a superb League campaign last season aside from that I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest he will be MOTM in an AI, he's striking is abysmal for an intercounty hurler.

Aylward is having a fine season and is definitely third in line behind the two maestros.

Agree re. Walsh, have no idea what Cody sees in him, his striking is as bad as Fennelys and his slow as well, only seems to be able to go through someone leading with the forearm, something I was glad to see Brian Gavin not falling for it.

MfMan

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Look we can compare our lads to the KK forwards all day long, on paper many of them lads at underage, colleges and Fitzgibbon level wouldn't have been rated as being at a level any higher or lower than many of our lads. They would have competed with and against each other but you'd never pick out which lads were the Kilkenny lads and which weren't if you didn't know. But when it comes to putting on that stripy jersey for Cody it just seems to bring a different type of animal out of fellah's altogether. They come through a good underage system as good players but its only when Cody gets a hold of them that they seem to just step up to another level and develop in a way that seems to be far superior to guys of similar ability in other counties. The physique, manic aggression, hunger, workrate and savage intensity and of course skill levels are something that in all honesty no other county seems to be able to compete with. Its more than just about having a good conveyor belt of underage talent as you can see with Galway over the years. Galway have been KK's biggest rivals as regards underage success since the early naughties, both having won the same amount of minors and u21s, but there is simply no comparision when it comes to senior level and the quality of the fellahs that come through the system. So yes we can argue all day about how some KK forwards would be of a similar ability to our lads but they operate out of a superior system that no other county seems to be able to match.

All very true. Galway won Minor and U-21 AIs in 2005, beating KK (maybe luckily) in the U-21 final in Limerick. Look how their paths have diverged since. No doubt tho' that the Cody factor is also a major part of KK's success since.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Mountainlad wrote: »

There was one point Hogan got which just typifies the man in the second half, spun on a sixpence and over. His balance is unreal. Funnily enough I think the sunday game still managed to use that clip as a stick to beat Waterford with.

That was a great score and is exactly what a forward needs to do. Bubbles does it for Tipp and what I mean is the ability to just instinctively know when to shoot if you have that half a yard. It's the sort of thing a natural forward does.
Too often we have forwards whose first instinct (or instruction) is to run into the nearest defender and break a tackle and only then do they look at their options.

I've no doubt we'll get there though and from what I've seen of Patrick Curran, he may very well be that sort of player if he continues to develop.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

danganabu wrote: »

Well I'm not from Waterford so that blows you're rose tinted glasses theory out the window!

What you say of Larkin was very true two years ago, this years Leinster Final aside he has been in decline for two years now.

Fennelly had a superb League campaign last season aside from that I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest he will be MOTM in an AI, he's striking is abysmal for an intercounty hurler.

Aylward is having a fine season and is definitely third in line behind the two maestros.

Agree re. Walsh, have no idea what Cody sees in him, his striking is as bad as Fennelys and his slow as well, only seems to be able to go through someone leading with the forearm, something I was glad to see Brian Gavin not falling for it.

Your comments on Fennelly and Larkin in particular are ridiculous. Leaving aside for a moment any comparisons with Waterford players; Kilkenny would not have won the All-Ireland championship last year without Larkin and Fennelly, you're completely underestimating their importance to how Kilkenny play.

Dismissing Larkin as being in decline for the last two days betrays either a very short memory or a reliance on the Sunday Game highlights to form your analysis of his performances. Not only did Larkin pick off wonderful scores throughout all of last years Championship the importance of his work around midfield/half back line was highlighted repeatedly as being instrumental to Kilkenny's success

Much the same can be said for Fennelly, bar some notable exceptions in the league Fennelly was never a prolific scorer, he has massive workrate, breaks tackles, puts pressure on defences with his pace and power. You just need to watch the second half of the final replay last year to see how important he is to Kilkenny, besides the scores he got, he caused so much trouble in the Tipp defence that they simply resorted to repeated cynical fouling as they couldn't do anything else.

"Fennelly had a superb League campaign last season aside from that I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest he will be MOTM in an AI" He is a current All-Star, he didn't get that for his league performances

By the way, Walter Walsh for all his form issues at the moment, is not slow by any means, ask Paudie Maher for example

danganabu

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Your comments on Fennelly and Larkin in particular are ridiculous. Leaving aside for a moment any comparisons with Waterford players; Kilkenny would not have won the All-Ireland championship last year without Larkin and Fennelly, you're completely underestimating their importance to how Kilkenny play.

Dismissing Larkin as being in decline for the last two days betrays either a very short memory or a reliance on the Sunday Game highlights to form your analysis of his performances. Not only did Larkin pick off wonderful scores throughout all of last years Championship the importance of his work around midfield/half back line was highlighted repeatedly as being instrumental to Kilkenny's success

Much the same can be said for Fennelly, bar some notable exceptions in the league Fennelly was never a prolific scorer, he has massive workrate, breaks tackles, puts pressure on defences with his pace and power. You just need to watch the second half of the final replay last year to see how important he is to Kilkenny, besides the scores he got, he caused so much trouble in the Tipp defence that they simply resorted to repeated cynical fouling as they couldn't do anything else.

"Fennelly had a superb League campaign last season aside from that I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest he will be MOTM in an AI" He is a current All-Star, he didn't get that for his league performances

By the way, Walter Walsh for all his form issues at the moment, is not slow by any means, ask Paudie Maher for example

Firstly if you could debate teh issue without the personal insults that would be great

Secondly I agree with you with regard to what Larkin in particular brings to the team, KK's forwards as a unit are better than teh sum of their parts, that is not what we are discussing here, teh point that was initally raised was about individuals.

All stars are hardly an accurate reflection of a players ability either, a meaningless award given primarily on how your team did. And why wouldnt he get it based pprimarily on the league campaign, he was outstanding, are you genuinely trying to tell me he has brought that form into championship?

Walter Walsh is slow for an intercounty payer, anyone that can't see that is lying to themselves, his turn of foot from a standing start is non existent hence why he finds it hard to make space for himself to get a shot off, I realise he is an excellent ball winner but its not enough, Cody seems to be remaining very loyal to him based on the 2012 reply performance, perhaps he sees him as a future FF but right now he is not worth his starting place.

PTH2009

So cusack park in ennis is getting a redevlopment and will fit at least 20000 and we are now the only Munster county which can't host senior Munster championship games.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

danganabu wrote: »

Firstly if you could debate teh issue without the personal insults that would be great

Secondly I agree with you with regard to what Larkin in particular brings to the team, KK's forwards as a unit are better than teh sum of their parts, that is not what we are discussing here, teh point that was initally raised was about individuals.

All stars are hardly an accurate reflection of a players ability either, a meaningless award given primarily on how your team did. And why wouldnt he get it based pprimarily on the league campaign, he was outstanding, are you genuinely trying to tell me he has brought that form into championship?

Walter Walsh is slow for an intercounty payer, anyone that can't see that is lying to themselves, his turn of foot from a standing start is non existent hence why he finds it hard to make space for himself to get a shot off, I realise he is an excellent ball winner but its not enough, Cody seems to be remaining very loyal to him based on the 2012 reply performance, perhaps he sees him as a future FF but right now he is not worth his starting place.

Fair enough, I didn't intend any personal insults.

Concerning Larkin, my argument is that to say that he has been in decline for two years is wrong and in my opinion, if it is at all possible for an ex hurler of the year to be underrated, then Larkin is. He was relatively quiet against Waterford but other than that I see no evidence of a decline really, he did have glandular fever earlier this year however. When discussing individual players, with the greatest of respect to the very good Waterford forwards, I doubt any Kilkenny people for swap Eoin Larkin for anyone in the Waterford forward line at this time. Larkin can win his own ball, high ball too, which is something the Waterford forwards were deemed to be lacking, he has huge work rate, great striker off both sides and arguably the best first touch in the game

My point about Fennelly is, irrespective of your or anyone's opinion on the All Stars, he had a great Championship last year, particularly the latter stages, not just the league. Yeah, his striking can be hot and cold and his first touch in this years Championship has been pretty poor, but I would not be in any way be surprised to see him have a great final

I'd agree with most of what you say about Walsh, he has dis-improved if anything unfortunately, he seems to lack confidence and one of the things he did well under age and initially at inter county, beat his man through power and pace (once he got going) is not happening for him. I can't argue against your assertion that he is slow off the mark, but in full sprint he is actually fast

Anyway, I'll leave it there, this is the Waterford thread, enough about Kilkenny

danganabu

PTH2009 wrote: »

So cusack park in ennis is getting a redevlopment and will fit at least 20000 and we are now the only Munster county which can't host senior Munster championship games.

To be honest its a waste of money just like the one in Cork, that money would be far better served being put into training facilities, development projects etc. There is no need for all these big stadiums in one province, take the Gaelic Grounds for example, how many times has it been filled since its re-development and funnily enough they would have built it bigger only they ccouldnt get planning permission to develop the covered stand!

Waterford's case is of course the opposite extreme, ideally we would have one 50k stadium in Munster ( owned by the Munster Council) and each county have a 20k county ground - take Pairc Ui Rinn as a perfect example.

danganabu

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Fair enough, I didn't intend any personal insults.

Concerning Larkin, my argument is that to say that he has been in decline for two years is wrong and in my opinion, if it is at all possible for an ex hurler of the year to be underrated, then Larkin is. He was relatively quiet against Waterford but other than that I see no evidence of a decline really, he did have glandular fever earlier this year however. When discussing individual players, with the greatest of respect to the very good Waterford forwards, I doubt any Kilkenny people for swap Eoin Larkin for anyone in the Waterford forward line at this time. Larkin can win his own ball, high ball too, which is something the Waterford forwards were deemed to be lacking, he has huge work rate, great striker off both sides and arguably the best first touch in the game

I agree with all that but when I say in decline I am actually praising the levels he was at in his prime rather than taking a swipe at the man, a bit like Conor McGrath was asked to do for Clare since Davy took over, Larkin's role has changed in the team. The intial point made that started this debate was that Waterford had no one of Larkins ability, my arguement was that they have players as good as the current Larkin and the role he plays.

In a more general point also it is very hard and probaly unfair to judge anyu Waterford forward considering the way the team was set up.Hopefully we get to see a bit more of them in an attacking sense from next year onwards.

chinguetti

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Too often we have forwards whose first instinct (or instruction) is to run into the nearest defender and break a tackle and only then do they look at their options.

I've no doubt we'll get there though and from what I've seen of Patrick Curran, he may very well be that sort of player if he continues to develop.

That's something that I agree with in spades. Remarked on a few occasions on Sunday about the runs into blind alleys by players. They put the head down and ran without having a look up to see what was on 30 yards up the pitch. A ball can move faster than a person and we play a demanding game. Experience will help the players gain this savvy and so should the management.

I can't remember which sports book I read before (rugby I think) but the team's video analysis showed how each player did the right thing at the right time in a 6 examples but equally showed a couple of examples of where they took the wrong decision and asked them what they should have done. IMO this would be an excellent idea for Waterford's management to do for the players before they begin training again.

robopaddy2

danganabu wrote: »

Walter Walsh is slow for an intercounty payer, anyone that can't see that is lying to themselves, his turn of foot from a standing start is non existent hence why he finds it hard to make space for himself to get a shot off, I realise he is an excellent ball winner but its not enough, Cody seems to be remaining very loyal to him based on the 2012 reply performance, perhaps he sees him as a future FF but right now he is not worth his starting place.

Sorry i know its not a waterford topic and Dont want to get dragged into it but for starters to say walsh is only getting his game because of one good performance in 2012 is rubbish and a lazy statement. Analyse his performances since then hes had some outstanding games particularly 2013 when kk were a jaded side he carried them almost single handedly at times.
As a waterford man i would only love someone like walter walsh in our forwards. Big , robust, win ball, similar to seamus prendergast only this guy has got a lot more hurling ability.He didnt have a good game on sunday but with our system and 2 or 3 defenders swarming around him every time he got the ball what do you expect. He seems to get a hard time on here but i think hes underestimated and as i said if he was from waterford hed be the kjnd of guy wed build our attack around

thinkstoomuch1

chinguetti wrote: »

That's something that I agree with in spades. Remarked on a few occasions on Sunday about the runs into blind alleys by players. They put the head down and ran without having a look up to see what was on 30 yards up the pitch. A ball can move faster than a person and we play a demanding game. Experience will help the players gain this savvy and so should the management.

I can't remember which sports book I read before (rugby I think) but the team's video analysis showed how each player did the right thing at the right time in a 6 examples but equally showed a couple of examples of where they took the wrong decision and asked them what they should have done. IMO this would be an excellent idea for Waterford's management to do for the players before they begin training again.

What your essentially advocating here is imo player empowerment which I totally agree on
However sometimes management get totally focused on players empowerment and cuthbhertt in cork football and john Allen always spoke of this principle that players were empowered make decisions
That's fine however it's not good unless you compliment it with tactical dynamic game plans to allow them make decisions
For example telling a Waterford player he should done b instead of a from sunday is no good if waterford set up the same way and not give more support to the forwards imo

tonc76

chinguetti wrote: »

That's something that I agree with in spades. Remarked on a few occasions on Sunday about the runs into blind alleys by players. They put the head down and ran without having a look up to see what was on 30 yards up the pitch. A ball can move faster than a person and we play a demanding game. Experience will help the players gain this savvy and so should the management.

I can't remember which sports book I read before (rugby I think) but the team's video analysis showed how each player did the right thing at the right time in a 6 examples but equally showed a couple of examples of where they took the wrong decision and asked them what they should have done. IMO this would be an excellent idea for Waterford's management to do for the players before they begin training again.

I was at a fundraiser in Dublin last year and McGrath went through video analysis of what the team were trying to implement showing both moves that worked and those that didn't and why. The videos were from the teams league matches last year.

Royal Legend

PF28 wrote: »

I think what Amprodude is trying to say is that you would never see kilkenny players educated, well spoken and giving an informed post match interview. Rather be talkin through the side of your mouth, spittin calf nuts and lickin your lips. Jesus lads this is how you win all irelands, post match interviews, how did we never realise this down here in waterford, thanks for the advice ampro. Must start enrolling our future hurlers in english classes in south kilkenny ðŸ˜

TBH, watched the Sunday Game live on the player on the Monday and I thought that all Henry talked about was Kilkenny, especially the forwards and especially his team mate tj. he sounded very biased and only had a kilkenny viewpoint.
I like Henry, but he should not be put in a position that he is making comments about his team on the Sunday game, in fairness most of the pundits that have been involved with teams tend to steer clear of live match day analysis.

Royal Legend

danganabu wrote: »

Firstly if you could debate teh issue without the personal insults that would be great

Secondly I agree with you with regard to what Larkin in particular brings to the team, KK's forwards as a unit are better than teh sum of their parts, that is not what we are discussing here, teh point that was initally raised was about individuals.

All stars are hardly an accurate reflection of a players ability either, a meaningless award given primarily on how your team did. And why wouldnt he get it based pprimarily on the league campaign, he was outstanding, are you genuinely trying to tell me he has brought that form into championship?

Walter Walsh is slow for an intercounty payer, anyone that can't see that is lying to themselves, his turn of foot from a standing start is non existent hence why he finds it hard to make space for himself to get a shot off, I realise he is an excellent ball winner but its not enough, Cody seems to be remaining very loyal to him based on the 2012 reply performance, perhaps he sees him as a future FF but right now he is not worth his starting place.

1) not sure where he "personally insulted" you
2) it might be a meaningless award, but it is an individual award, i cannot think of anyone who has won one in hurling in the last two years based on his league form
3) i doubt that anyone thinks that Cody would stick with a player just because he played well three years ago :rolleyes:

You are coming across as pretty angry and anti kilkenny

Mountainlad

Video analysis is useful but it has a serious limitation. The reality is in the direct aftermath of making a mistake a player will know what they did wrong.

To show how it should be done and say why it went wrong to me ignores a key issue in that you don't know how the player felt at the point where they made the error. Did they just ship a big hit? How long is gone, are they out on their feet?

My own feeling from the game was Kilkenny just have another level of physicality at the moment that the lads haven't experienced yet. That eventually told and that was what prompted the mistakes (bar maybe O'Keeffes, I wonder are the short puckouts in the main just extremely difficult o execute to perfection and whether in general they need a rethink). When you look at the likes of Dunford (who did excel to be fair), Shane Bennett, Aussie in particular they are very knew to that kind of intensity so it's going to be draining against guys like Fennelly, Reid, Hogan etc. It looks bad to everyone who is fit and fresh in the stands, but try and swing a hurley or make a 10 yard handpass after doing one of the Senior teams January training sessions even and it'll become apparent very quickly the challenge faced on Sunday.

You'd have to be encouraged by the change in tenacity and physicality in what is still a young team in the space of a year. Last year, we questioned their fitness and judging by what Paudi Mahony said that was something they weren't happy with themselves and they've made a phenomenal effort to put that right. I'm excited to see what kind of progress they can make in another year.

There was a lot of talk funnily enough about Waterford showing their hand, and peaking too soon after the league final but the lads were still good enough to be better than any other side in the Country outside the big two (and I include Galway in that from what we've seen so far though I'm open to changing that view depending on Sunday's outcome) and while there's no doubt they were beaten by two better teams I think they lost nothing in defeat and gave both sides enough it. Mullane's point was interesting, that they may well have been a bit tired at this stage of the year. I reckon they've played around 30 games over the course of the year, those games in December were clearly aimed with the intention of hitting the ground running. Maybe a staggered approach next year might see a higher level of performance in the Summer, who knows I'm sure they'll consider it.

I'm confident they won't go away, wouldn't be concerned with the talk of "second season syndrome", whatever that is :rolleyes: McGrath deserved a chance to put his mark on the team last year despite the underperformance, and he's grasped the chance with both hands. Rather than saying "they need to do this, or win that" I'm more than happy and looking forward to see what they come up with next year and to how they go about raising the bar again.

Royal Legend

Mountainlad wrote: »

Video analysis is useful but it has a serious limitation. The reality is in the direct aftermath of making a mistake a player will know what they did wrong.

To show how it should be done and say why it went wrong to me ignores a key issue in that you don't know how the player felt at the point where they made the error. Did they just ship a big hit? How long is gone, are they out on their feet?

My own feeling from the game was Kilkenny just have another level of physicality at the moment that the lads haven't experienced yet. That eventually told and that was what prompted the mistakes (bar maybe O'Keeffes, I wonder are the short puckouts in the main just extremely difficult o execute to perfection and whether in general they need a rethink). When you look at the likes of Dunford (who did excel to be fair), Shane Bennett, Aussie in particular they are very knew to that kind of intensity so it's going to be draining against guys like Fennelly, Reid, Hogan etc. It looks bad to everyone who is fit and fresh in the stands, but try and swing a hurley or make a 10 yard handpass after doing one of the Senior teams January training sessions even and it'll become apparent very quickly the challenge faced on Sunday.

You'd have to be encouraged by the change in tenacity and physicality in what is still a young team in the space of a year. Last year, we questioned their fitness and judging by what Paudi Mahony said that was something they weren't happy with themselves and they've made a phenomenal effort to put that right. I'm excited to see what kind of progress they can make in another year.

There was a lot of talk funnily enough about Waterford showing their hand, and peaking too soon after the league final but the lads were still good enough to be better than any other side in the Country outside the big two (and I include Galway in that from what we've seen so far though I'm open to changing that view depending on Sunday's outcome) and while there's no doubt they were beaten by two better teams I think they lost nothing in defeat and gave both sides enough it. Mullane's point was interesting, that they may well have been a bit tired at this stage of the year. I reckon they've played around 30 games over the course of the year, those games in December were clearly aimed with the intention of hitting the ground running. Maybe a staggered approach next year might see a higher level of performance in the Summer, who knows I'm sure they'll consider it.

I'm confident they won't go away, wouldn't be concerned with the talk of "second season syndrome", whatever that is :rolleyes: McGrath deserved a chance to put his mark on the team last year despite the underperformance, and he's grasped the chance with both hands. Rather than saying "they need to do this, or win that" I'm more than happy and looking forward to see what they come up with next year and to how they go about raising the bar again.

This is a good bunch of young lads, I do not see them slipping by either getting carried away or by being disappointed by the defeat. We might need to give them another year to gel properly and get the overall balance right, but I think Division one hurling next year will do them the world of good. Don't forget they have over achieved this season.

N20

Austin Gleeson transferring to UCC next season ??
huge asset for Fitzgibbon if true
Arguably one of best hurlersin country at the moment

Deise Hurler

Well done Galway. That's what happens when you believe in yereselves and really take on the big two. Hope we can replicate that next year with a more attacking style of hurling.