Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

thinkstoomuch1

RockyMills wrote: »

You're wrong there anyway, didn't shefflin tap a free over in the 2012 final with about 2 minutes to go against Galway? It would have put the game beyond Galway but instead he tapped it over for a point because he didn't have the balls to take a go at the goal. It's just a pity Galway didn't go on to win that game & shefflin's fûck up wasn't punished.

Shefflin was an outstanding hurlers with ruthless conviction and among the greatest ever possibly the greatest
Your critsim on him is unmeirted ands unjustified and has no logic to back it up
You never aassiocste lack of balls to kk but definitely seen as mention it other counties would lack it at times imo

Amprodude

RockyMills wrote: »

You're wrong there anyway, didn't shefflin tap a free over in the 2012 final with about 2 minutes to go against Galway? It would have put the game beyond Galway but instead he tapped it over for a point because he didn't have the balls to take a go at the goal. It's just a pity Galway didn't go on to win that game & shefflin's fûck up wasn't punished.

In 2009 he went for a goal against Tipp and that what won it for them. Anyway I rest my case.

robopaddy2

Buck Melanoma wrote: »

Maybe i am wrong but i dont think amprodude is from kilkenny, please dont be using him as reference to have a go at kilkenny posters.

Fair enough.

robopaddy2

dcrosskid wrote: »

I wouldn't include Paul Curran in the list of hurling full backs, he was an excellent competitor, man marker, excellent in the air and you earned everything you got on him but his first option when in possession was usually a hand pass or short stick pass.

Pity he was forced into retirement after the roasting he got off colin dunford up in nolan park in the league semi final earlier in the year. A sad way to finish up after a tremendous career.

Mountainlad

Amprodude wrote: »

In 2009 he went for a goal against Tipp and that what won it for them. Anyway I rest my case.

From a penalty, not a 21 and 21s are even harder to score now than they were then. Think he should of gone for it but your logic that it was a defeatist mentality exhibited throughout is assanine.

Your comments about Connors are sheer muppetry now in fairness. There's a reason nobody else is making that assertion. You can be sure they were sick in the dressing room after, but you seem to have absolutely no concept of what it's like being an intercounty player. I would advise you go out and watch a week of their training in November, in the gym and on the field and then try and make your idiotic comment about them not being too bothered.


Are the two of ye really that bitter that ye would be this mean spirited over the fact that we beat ye twice in May? Two children.

deiseach

RockyMills wrote: »

You're wrong there anyway, didn't shefflin tap a free over in the 2012 final with about 2 minutes to go against Galway? It would have put the game beyond Galway but instead he tapped it over for a point because he didn't have the balls to take a go at the goal. It's just a pity Galway didn't go on to win that game & shefflin's fûck up wasn't punished.

I remember Michael Duignan expressed utter disbelief at that. Made me respect the oul bollix that he disagreed with King Henry (although there is only one King and that's Rocky Mills). I don't think it reflected a lack of balls on Shefflin's part. There were pros and cons to the decision and the one he took was easily justified. But had Maurice, or any Waterford player, done the same in the same circumstances, you can be sure he would have been utterly slaughtered had Waterford gone on to lose the replay.

FAO trolls. Please note Kilkenny winning the replay didn't retrospectively mean the decision Shefflin made was the only decision to be made. And yes, I know the chances of any Waterford player being in that position are pretty slim at the moment. Swap Henry with Joe Canning if it helps.

dcrosskid

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Pity he was forced into retirement after the roasting he got off colin dunford up in nolan park in the league semi final earlier in the year. A sad way to finish up after a tremendous career.

Ya it was to be honest, he just didn't have the legs for it anymore but was as steady a full back there was for nearly a decade.

thinkstoomuch1

Waterford management and players deserve huge credit for a good solid year this year on reflection now the year is over
In fairness they won the league and in no way am I taking from it but reality must also be acknowledged in tippeary Eammon o shea said many times he wasn't interested this year league and neither was kk and results since prove this clearly

Fact is as the result show waterford lost two championship games and in truth lost them well
Imo
Tony considine said this that tippeary win with out full peak
Most agree kk should won by more


Beat Dublin and Cork credit due But dublin and Cork are way off the big two

There's a lot of talent in waterford from the schools and all ireland minor win however I think it's often forgotten since then before this waterford team has not done anything of note in under twenty one and twice had poor defeats
This year limerick minors won minor in ist year under twenty one

Waterford have imo not progression from minor win in the win had two losses and as great was still showed team was beatable
This view waterford have best talent then others coming up, limerick have outstanding young talent and while didn't win a school have had two solid years minor up to last year and would got all ireland final but for hawk eye
There were exceptional minor team in won munster twice and got to final and only for problem within management week up to the final would won imo

This year won under twenty one munster and won't win all ireland yet but minor under twenty one last three years have been consistent
Waterford won a minor but under twenty one has failed and the progression you could say has not been great in terms of the success expected

Huge huge pressure in their under twenty one to deliver next year
All this talk about this new invincible system in may the new Donegal by the media I stated many times was ill informed and greatly over hyped and Hennessy examiner gave master full piece saying stats show waterford system won't beat the top teams
Enda McCoy a great journalist but one who in past times has been ruthless to assess cork and tippeary lack of success imo seems have a huge popular view with waterford and fair enough he's close to county being kk and he's not fan cork or tipp as there big three in hurling but it will be interesting to see he's views on this defeat as the system and waterford team he lauded with praise, while progress was made, fact is nothing showed v tipp of kk that this management or team can bridge the gap to kk

Munster is going to be poor next year in limerick have problems with management, cork could also, tippeary have new management but imo been involved in selector last nine years and I think tipperary's win of loose in transition
Clare if Kinnerk rejoin probably the danger
Waterford system could win a munster titles but must learn to evaluate realistic wise in munster and all ireland there's huge jump to beating kk


This waterford team also has huge expectation next year not to suffer second season syndrome like limerick etc and Cork
That's where under twenty one is vital to give them confidence
Waterford don't handle pressure well like loosing all ireland semi final should won beating limerick years ago, loss under twenty one last and this year and even against Dublin struggle with expectations

There's been progress made and McGrath should get a second term with out any shadow of a doubt but this talk that there's definitely an all ireland in waterford, imo still lot of questions to be answered yet
I'm impressed Joel schmidt was brought in to talk to them very impressed as I said yesterday


Teams know waterford how they play
Waterford next year every team wants to beat them
The under twenty one defeat knocked waterford hugely and Gleasson even said that waterford felt like giving up after it
Have to simply have to win a munster under twenty one before imo they can talk about all ireland

Kk have won under sixteen all ireland and minors and this year again going well and clubs doing good and under twenty ones while hammered by Wexford likely all ireland champions in year one still got to leinster final
They have more sustainable success recently at most level than waterford and when you factor in cody is now retired and not going anywhere soon for a long long time it is huge huge questions marks over whether waterford can we win the all ireland
Kk have proven management and McGrath deserves credit but still next year as more to prove as just like John Allen etc he's done good job but nothing more
Ask tipperary's fans about declan Ryan won minor all ireland
Their view even though he got tipperary's to an all ireland final is he's term was not great as he didn't win an all ireland
Waterford have improved but there's lots good teams around but good won't win you an all Ireland when kk are there and I said this in may I have huge fear kk set dominated again
I would love waterford to win an all ireland as be great for hurling and Cork have good relationship with waterford past management etc but I think next year will tell a lot imo.


Imo three waterford players are in contention for all stars
De Burca, Gleasson, and Shanahan always been a huge fan off and imo could get one, I hope he gets it.
As for management of the year I don't think McGrath should get it. Some said here he should get it


If tippeary win Eammon o shea has to get it for winning and breaking kk dominance over them
Munster and all ireland champions I'm sorry beats league and one championship win two losses any and every day of the week imo

If Galway won the all ireland cunningjham has to get it
If kk win the all ireland yes probably likely McGrath has better chance win it then but imo giving a manager management of the year with two championship games I wouldn't agree with as this system that was praised by many every paper I read yesterday now says this system needs changing
Imo Im not surprised and I had this view since may
Gleasson young player of the year imo he's a Sensational absoultey wonderful wonderful player and will be one of the real real real greats of hurling in years to come.
He has skill want desire hunger and conviction
One if not the best side line men to take a ball and imo better than joe canning with this awesome skill
I thought Cathal casey from cork was the best ever man to take a side line
But after having the privledge as a hurling fan all my life watch casey I must say Gleasson is better in yes he not just good at it but he's great side line taker

Realt Dearg Sec

Ttm I'd love your job.

thinkstoomuch1

deiseach wrote: »

I remember Michael Duignan expressed utter disbelief at that. Made me respect the oul bollix that he disagreed with King Henry (although there is only one King and that's Rocky Mills). I don't think it reflected a lack of balls on Shefflin's part. There were pros and cons to the decision and the one he took was easily justified. But had Maurice, or any Waterford player, done the same in the same circumstances, you can be sure he would have been utterly slaughtered had Waterford gone on to lose the replay.

FAO trolls. Please note Kilkenny winning the replay didn't retrospectively mean the decision Shefflin made was the only decision to be made. And yes, I know the chances of any Waterford player being in that position are pretty slim at the moment. Swap Henry with Joe Canning if it helps.

With respect we all have opinions but imo to call duignan what you just called him is not right and that is imo personal no need for it
In fairness That's not right

I'm not fan him either as a pundit but never would I think of saying what you said
Some here say no personal attack on their players and there totally right should be on field of play performance related only
At the same time personal slant on another pundit is not right by the same token

culbaire

The Dickler wrote: »

It is a personal attack.

He is the best we have available, or do you have any suggestions. Taking every opportunity you got over the whole season to undermine him constitutes a personal attack in anyones book. We have tried and already know that Fives is definitely not a full back.
De Burca- spectacular this year. But could he contribute as much with Reid, Callinan or Canning to mark.

It is NOT a personal attack. It is an analysis of his skill levels. Its an outline of what is requited from Barry Couglan if he is to become a top inter county full back. Not just my view either. it is the view of most hurling supporters in Waterford.
Jackie Cahill in the Irish Indpendent analysed the performances of the Waterford and Kilkenny players. He criticised some performances. Are they personal attacks also? They most certainly are not. They are an analysis of the displays of the players.
Definition of a personal attack:Making of an abusive remark relating to one's person.

Mountainlad

Two championship wins. You are insufferable, prepare to be mercilessly contradicted later when I get my laptop back.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

Two championship wins. You are insufferable, prepare to be mercilessly contradicted later when I get my laptop back.

Two championship wins yes and as I said huge credit to McGrath this year and I had doubts but credit due
But it is logical for me to say I still remain to be convinced regards all ireland and many others said the same
There no contradiction and I said it before I'm not going in to old cork ground with you or anyone
I'm giving a view what I think of waterford just like you and others give views cork other counties and no one minds you doing it
Your entitled to your opinion
We all are
Debate any of the points I raised above if you want
I have no intention going over old debates as like I said well agree to disagree on my part you well entitled to your opinion my posts contradicts themselves but I explained this before

CaseysRock

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Two championship wins yes and as I said huge credit to McGrath this year and I had doubts but credit due
But it is logical for me to say I still remain to be convinced regards all ireland and many others said the same
There no contradiction and I said it before I'm not going in to old cork ground with you or anyone
I'm giving a view what I think of waterford just like you and others give views cork other counties and no one minds you doing it
Your entitled to your opinion
We all are
Debate any of the points I raised above if you want
I have no intention going over old debates as like I said well agree to disagree on my part you well entitled to your opinion my posts contradicts themselves but I explained this before

Agree with this, everyone did very very well this year but to win the all Ireland is still a massive step from where we are now barring a freak year like 2013.

Scoring goals, something KK, Tipp and Galway are all well capable of doing is the next big step for us and not scoring goals against cork and dublin etc but against KK and Tipp because as this year proved there's not a hope of beating them without goals.

Also lads if anyone could visit the page Quality Cleaning Waterford on facebook there's a small competition running looking back at Waterford's best hurling moments since the turn of the millenuim, only a bit of fun and good memories to relive so any support would be appreciated!

Buck Melanoma

deiseach wrote: »

I remember Michael Duignan expressed utter disbelief at that. Made me respect the oul bollix that he disagreed with King Henry (although there is only one King and that's Rocky Mills). I don't think it reflected a lack of balls on Shefflin's part. There were pros and cons to the decision and the one he took was easily justified. But had Maurice, or any Waterford player, done the same in the same circumstances, you can be sure he would have been utterly slaughtered had Waterford gone on to lose the replay.

FAO trolls. Please note Kilkenny winning the replay didn't retrospectively mean the decision Shefflin made was the only decision to be made. And yes, I know the chances of any Waterford player being in that position are pretty slim at the moment. Swap Henry with Joe Canning if it helps.

Hope the "trolls" comment is not aimed at me. Yes i mentioned kilkenny won the replay but still say taking the certain point on offer late in game was correct decision, what if he missed the goal, Galway went down field a got a point u know, missed penalty means galway would likely have won. B ut sure he would have "balls" but one less all ireland medal. Fwiw not too many hurlers at inter county level lack "balls". It takes enormous drive, dedication and skill to compete, more than what is needed to post annonymous comments on t'internet.

thinkstoomuch1

CaseysRock wrote: »

Agree with this, everyone did very very well this year but to win the all Ireland is still a massive step from where we are now barring a freak year like 2013.

Scoring goals, something KK, Tipp and Galway are all well capable of doing is the next big step for us and not scoring goals against cork and dublin etc but against KK and Tipp because as this year proved there's not a hope of beating them without goals.

Also lads if anyone could visit the page Quality Cleaning Waterford on facebook there's a small competition running looking back at Waterford's best hurling moments since the turn of the millenuim, only a bit of fun and good memories to relive so any support would be appreciated!

Will have a look and I'll tell my cork fans
Thanks for that it's a great idea

Rasputin11

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Pity he was forced into retirement after the roasting he got off colin dunford up in nolan park in the league semi final earlier in the year. A sad way to finish up after a tremendous career.

I watched Curran play county league Friday night and his legs are completely gone, O Shea should have known this and handled the situation better. That was the only goal Waterford scored in games against the All Ireland Semi Final teams this year, no goal against Galway in the league and against Tipp and KK in Championship.

CaseysRock

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Will have a look and I'll tell my cork fans
Thanks for that it's a great idea

Thanks....doesn't seem to be working thus far though, only one entry.

some great choices to be fair

04 munster final
breakthrough in 02
beating the cats league final 07
eoin mcgrath going for goal in the last min v cork 07
beating tipp 08
kevin morans point v KK 2013
Winning league this year etc

Maybe people aren't sentimental anymore!

thinkstoomuch1

CaseysRock wrote: »

Thanks....doesn't seem to be working thus far though, only one entry.

some great choices to be fair

04 munster final
breakthrough in 02
beating the cats league final 07
eoin mcgrath going for goal in the last min v cork 07
beating tipp 08
kevin morans point v KK 2013
Winning league this year etc

Maybe people aren't sentimental anymore!

The 04 munster final was epic and magnificent in waterford beating cork and on the day no one can deny waterford were the better team

Waterford I always felt lacked that tactical extra edge under McCarthy to go further but that team was a very good team and many heroes like McGrath mullane kelly Browne etc
As good as waterford were this year this current team have a long way to go before they are imo up with them as while they didn't win all ireland had lot success and got to all ireland final the last waterford team to do so and that legacy of them lives on until next waterford team get to an all ireland final

Some great choices there
You mentioned beating tippeary in 08
That was a special day for waterford hurling to get to an all ireland final and I was there in Croke park as a cork fans buy a hurling man also
That game v tipperary's waterford were magnificent on the field and I felt management tactical wise got it spot on in that great win also


Waterford were great for hurling in those times

CaseysRock

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

The 04 munster final was epic and magnificent in waterford beating cork and on the day no one can deny waterford were the better team

Waterford I always felt lacked that tactical extra edge under McCarthy to go further but that team was a very good team and many heroes like McGrath mullane kelly Browne etc
As good as waterford were this year this current team have a long way to go before they are imo up with them as while they didn't win all ireland had lot success and got to all ireland final the last waterford team to do so and that legacy of them lives on until next waterford team get to an all ireland final

Some great choices there
Waterford were great for hurling in those times

Yeah maybe in hindsight a bit more tactics may have helped but sometimes I think I wouldn't even swap the all irelands other teams won in those years for the games and memories that team gave us.

I don't remember a sporting defeat ever hurting as much as the 07 Semi to Limerick but even though KK won the all ireland that year I'd argue strongly that our 2007 was better and more enjoyable than theirs.

As you said a great team for hurling.

Anyone reading who wants to relive some of those memories from those years Quality Cleaning Waterford on facebook and support that competition, very poor entry numbers so far.

Amprodude

Mountainlad wrote: »

From a penalty, not a 21 and 21s are even harder to score now than they were then. Think he should of gone for it but your logic that it was a defeatist mentality exhibited throughout is assanine.

Your comments about Connors are sheer muppetry now in fairness. There's a reason nobody else is making that assertion. You can be sure they were sick in the dressing room after, but you seem to have absolutely no concept of what it's like being an intercounty player. I would advise you go out and watch a week of their training in November, in the gym and on the field and then try and make your idiotic comment about them not being too bothered.


Are the two of ye really that bitter that ye would be this mean spirited over the fact that we beat ye twice in May? Two children.

Don't go down the road of Waterford beating Cork twice this year, Cork hurling is in crisis and has been for along time. If your using that as s benchmark then god help Waterford hurling in the future. But sure you are one of the many Waterford fans coming out assessing the season saying we had a great year eventhough we lost twice in championship. No medals for loosing. It was a good effort by Waterford this year don't get me wrong but it's the little things that's stopping them going the extra mile. Until they believe they can go out and demolish Kilkenny and Tipp they are always going to come out 2nd best. Look at Cork 2013, by no mans a good hurling team and the way they beat Kilkenny that day with a poor team. Waterford have had better teams than Cork 2008-2015 and always came up a good bit short of dismantling Kilkenny.

danganabu

I see now that the Cork boys have realised they can't cut it at football or hurling that they have decided to throw their lot in with the auld 'Trolling' - a brave move to be fair to them and I wish them all the best with it, although the early evidence is not very encouraging, maybe they need a 'system'??

deiseach

Buck Melanoma wrote: »

Hope the "trolls" comment is not aimed at me. Yes i mentioned kilkenny won the replay but still say taking the certain point on offer late in game was correct decision, what if he missed the goal, Galway went down field a got a point u know, missed penalty means galway would likely have won. B ut sure he would have "balls" but one less all ireland medal. Fwiw not too many hurlers at inter county level lack "balls". It takes enormous drive, dedication and skill to compete, more than what is needed to post annonymous comments on t'internet.

We both agree that this decision was not indicative of his level of balls so no, that wasn't aimed at you. You think it was the correct decision, and that's fine. My issue is with people who would put a Waterford player in that situation and take any decision as being 'wrong' if Waterford ended up losing.

deiseach

I think we can safely ignore the opinion(s) of those who peddle the idea that Waterford could have bridged the gap with Kilkenny this year by believing in ourselves or some other slogan that would be rejected as too corny by the makers of fortune cookies.

Figsy32

I think it's clear what Waterford need to bridge the gap and its not as much as many would have you believe. You need either a second top class forward to play inside with Shanhan or a full back who is good enough to play without TDB sweeping, which will allow you to play another forward (maybe Curran) and Shanahan won't have to consistently fight two men for the ball. Could Shane Fives do a job there? Otherwise I think man for man your 5 backs are practically as good as anything else out there.

An extra winter in the gym and a year of conditioning for the likes of the Bennetts, Dunford and Curran will bring them on a long way. Ye looked quite overmatched in the physical stakes on Sunday but that's hardly surprising.

There's always going to be injuries but having Mahony back will be huge.

I think next year will be critical though in that getting a scalp over one of the big two would do wonders for the belief levels. That's obviously easier said than done though.

Overall if I was a Waterford man and looking at the year you could only be thrilled. I wouldn't go throwing out the way you play at all, that's a very knee jerk reaction.

carq

Sad as it is, I can only agree with the so called ‘trolls’.

A lot on this thread are quite blinkered and windmill at any perceived criticism of the team.
For me it was a lame way to exit the championship, the game was over with 15 minutes to go , the players didn’t have the energy or know how to challenge Kilkenny once they asserted their dominance.
The ‘system’ clearly does not work. To say we are knocking on the door of an All Ireland is farcical.

We never looked like winning either game vs Tipp or KK. In fact we were trailing each game for 80% and never took a meaningful lead.
We have improved of course since last year but the gulf between winning an All Ireland is as wide as ever.

deisedude

Do people not remember how sh1t we were last year? The amount we have improved is nothing short of astounding

It is a good year considering where we have come from. Now if we were to go out in the same circumstances next year playing the same way I'd say different

danganabu

carq wrote: »

Sad as it is, I can only agree with the so called ‘trolls’.

A lot on this thread are quite blinkered and windmill at any perceived criticism of the team.
For me it was a lame way to exit the championship, the game was over with 15 minutes to go , the players didn’t have the energy or know how to challenge Kilkenny once they asserted their dominance.
The ‘system’ clearly does not work. To say we are knocking on the door of an All Ireland is farcical.

We never looked like winning either game vs Tipp or KK. In fact we were trailing each game for 80% and never took a meaningful lead.
We have improved of course since last year but the gulf between winning an All Ireland is as wide as ever.

Thats all well and good if you simply take last Sunday's game in complete isolation and ignore everything else.

Fact is that 6 months ago Waterford were a very poor to mediocre team who most wouldnt have had in their top 6 teams in the country, but McGrath has built a very very good team and has won a national title and closed the gap on the top two.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the foundations have been well and truely put down.

deiseach

carq wrote: »

We have improved of course since last year but the gulf between winning an All Ireland is as wide as ever.

All we can do is improve ourselves. If Kilkenny and Tipperary improve at the same time, well, there's not a hell of a lot we can do about it.

PTH2009

Figsy32 wrote: »

I think it's clear what Waterford need to bridge the gap and its not as much as many would have you believe. You need either a second top class forward to play inside with Shanhan or a full back who is good enough to play without TDB sweeping, which will allow you to play another forward (maybe Curran) and Shanahan won't have to consistently fight two men for the ball. Could Shane Fives do a job there? Otherwise I think man for man your 5 backs are practically as good as anything else out there.

An extra winter in the gym and a year of conditioning for the likes of the Bennetts, Dunford and Curran will bring them on a long way. Ye looked quite overmatched in the physical stakes on Sunday but that's hardly surprising.

There's always going to be injuries but having Mahony back will be huge.

I think next year will be critical though in that getting a scalp over one of the big two would do wonders for the belief levels. That's obviously easier said than done though.

Overall if I was a Waterford man and looking at the year you could only be thrilled. I wouldn't go throwing out the way you play at all, that's a very knee jerk reaction.

Next year We could get drawn with Tipperary in the first round of Munster be beaten and then kilkenny get beaten in the leinster semi final and we draw them in the all Ireland qualifiers round 1. That would be hell