Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

robopaddy2 · 11-08-2015 12:22AM

The Dickler wrote: »

This Waterford team and management can look back at this year with a total sense of achievement and no little vindication in face of the abuse they took after last year. Well done lads and thanks.

it is unfortunate to see that some on here still have an axe to. Unrelenting personal attacks on certain members of the team I find hard to listen to.
It would be better for all if these lads could put their personal agendas aside for next year and move on in a united fashion as the panel and management team have.
We conceded 1 goal in 140 minutes of hurling against two of the finest teams Tipp and Kilkenny have ever produced. There is very little wrong with our defence.
Where we obviously came up short yesterday was in our attacking abilities. Nothing to do with systems or numbers. When we had the ball in attacking positions the ability to make space or get shots off in tight spaces was limited. This has been the difference between us and Tipp/Kill.
Aussie and Maurice managed it yesterday.
Dunford got a few good scores but his unwillingness to take those extra steps where his pace will really hurt them is frustrating.
It didn't happen for Moran, Jake and as the game wore on Brick.
And if we are honest despite the very high hopes I have for them, the Bennetts and Paddy Curran caused their markers zero difficulties yesterday and are quite a bit off this level yet.
All to look forward next year but as we know there are no guarantees.

The begrudgery above is from KK posters so wouldn't take much notice. Not about winning for some of them its about sticking the knife in and being caught up in all the parochial crap.

Moving onto next year I think we have no excuses for not taking a more attacking approach. Plenty of attacking options you will have Pauric Mahony back from injury, Curran and the 2 Bennett's will be a year older and more involved. Then you've Ray Barry back from the States, and a few u21s knocking on the door aswell like DJ Foran, Mikey Kearney and Colm Roche from Shamrocks is an excellent propect aswell. Throw in Maurice, Dunford, Jake Dillon, Devine, O'Halloran and please god Brick will stick around. There is so much to work with going forward and Derek McGrath has an array of talented young players coming through that some other county managers could only dream about.

culbaire · 11-08-2015 12:22AM

Deskjockey wrote: »

We conceded one goal against KK who scored 5 or 6 versus wexford so I think castigating the full back who admittedly made a mistake is pretty unfair. Terrible goal to give away but you have to look at how he played all year.

He was protected by the sweeper throughout the year. He is not a hurling full back who can make long clearances out of defense. He is a tight marker. That on its own is no longer sufficient. He must improve his hurling skills and speed to make it at intercounty level. This is not a personal attack. It is an analysis of what is required to improve him as a hurler and make a really great fullback out of him. I have never accused him of giving less than 100%. IT IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK.

Miall108 · 11-08-2015 12:28AM

Amprodude wrote: »

Waterford players celebrating a moral victory after the game gives a clear view to me that they won't win any All Ireland soon. Not sounding harsh lads or anything but Waterford if they believed they could beat Kilkenny they would be disgusted yesterday after loosing that game. Instead players like Connors talking post match interview and loving the limelight gives a clear view that Waterford were prepared to accept the defeat and celebrate a moral victory.

To a certain extent I would kind of agree with part of that statement. I remember one incident during the game where Eoin Larkin caught a ball over young Gleesons head, Gleeson fell and Larkin stuck it over the bar and Gleesons response was to throw his arms up in the air and look across to the line. If I was the opposing player, I would interpret that as mental weakness and that sort of attitude gives opposing players all sorts of confidence. Would disappoint me if I was Derek McGrath, similarly this over eagerness by some Waterford players to get KK players jerseys after the final whistle when they should be trying to get off the field as quick as possible, especially De Burca who was almost desperate to get Richie Hogans jersey, just tells me that the mentality is still not quite there just yet for that young Waterford team, seem more in admiration of the KK team than tearing themselves apart that they lost to them. Looking back at some of the highlights, the only player I could see who genuinely showed emotion at the end was Connors.

culbaire · 11-08-2015 12:28AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

The begrudgery above is from KK posters so wouldn't take much notice. Not about winning for some of them its about sticking the knife in and being caught up in all the parochial crap.

Moving onto next year I think we have no excuses for taking a more attacking approach. Plenty of attacking more options you will have Pauric Mahony back from injury, Curran and the 2 Bennett's will be a year older and more involved. Then you've Ray Barry back from the States, and a few u21s knocking on the door aswell like DJ Foran, Mikey Kearney and Colm Roche from Shamrocks is an excellent propect aswell. Throw in Maurice, Dunford, Jake Dillon, Devine, O'Halloran and please god Brick will stick around. There is so much to work with going forward and Derek McGrath has an array of talented young players coming through that other county manager could only dream about.

You hit the nail on the head.

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-08-2015 12:31AM

culbaire wrote: »

He was protected by the sweeper throughout the year. He is not a hurling full back who can make long clearances out of defense. He is a tight marker. That on its own is no longer sufficient. He must improve his hurling skills and speed to make it at intercounty level. This is not a personal attack. It is an analysis of what is required to improve him as a hurler and make a really great fullback out of him. I have never accused him of giving less than 100%

I'd agree

Look at jj delayney, curran, Noel Hickey, the rock, lawlor, tj Ryan and Riche McCarthy and Lohan etc all had huge clearances and imo being a tight marker more for a corner back

Full back must defend space and the d zone at all times and not mark the man but space

Cork are a prime example of poor full back play the last three years with good corner backs like o Neill and Murphy and mcdommell played full and made look poor

All the great full backs always marked the d zone most days

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-08-2015 12:41AM

CaseysRock wrote: »

Credit to everyone involved for what was an excellent year.
Hopefully next year we can push on again but as Derek McGrath said there are no guaruntees.
Just look at Clare winning all ireland in 2013, nowhere near last year or this.
This time last year everyone was talking about how good Wexford and Limerick were in the same way as our lads are being praised now.....it didn't work out so well for those teams this year so to follow up again with another good year is a big ask but one I'm sure that set of players and management will embrace.

For what it's worth I still feel we're a bit off in terms of development and game plan from winning the big one unless we get a freak year such as 2013 where the best three teams, KK, Tipp and Galway were off the pace.

Looking at the way those three teams play such a big factor in my opinion is they play fast aggressive attack minded hurling looking for goals all the time and they have the players to do it i.e. Reid, Hogan, Fennelley etc for the cats, o'dwyer, callanan, forde for Tipp and the likes of Mannion, Flynn, Glynn, Donnellan and Canning for Galway.

The teams who are that little bit behind those three, as in Clare, ourselves, Limerick, Wexford, Dublin etc seem to favour the more conservative, defensive systems limiting concession of goals but leaving players isolated up front Maurice for ourselves, O'Donnell for Clare etc.

From what I can see this style of play will only take us as far as being competitive and in and around the last 4/last 6 each year.....to beat Tipp/KK we need a team and a style of play that favours attack minded hurling and goals over defensive systems. I really feel that the great team of 04 - 07 didn't win an all ireland due to bad luck more so than not being more defensive minded.

And the above is not a criticism of Derek McGrath. In my opinion he has done a fantastic job and moulded the lads into a very good side....however the current style of play with scores such as 0 - 16 and 0 - 18 will not win us an all ireland.

For what its worth my team for summer 2016.

O'Keefe

Fives Connors Daniels

Mahoney De Burca Fives

Barron (Sweeper)

Dunford Gleeson

Moran Mahoney

Curran Shanahan Bennett

I'd agree with most of that but I'd leave Burke at sweeper
Why change him when he's been outstanding all year
One other point you make reference that bad luck cost waterford from 04 to 07
I disagree
Waterford were well beaten by limerick in an all ireland semi final and Cork won by five in a quarter final and to be fair kk won a semi final well and it was the concession of goals in the kk game cost them hugely

Yes 2006 cork were lucky by a point in Cusack stop of the point going over the cross bar but over all waterford were a very very good team but didn't make the final push and it wasn't down to bad luck most other years
That waterford team with McGrath, big dan the man who dominated the great sean og many times not many have, mullane, kelly deserved win all ireland yes but simple fact is no one can deny most games they lost better teams won
Cork kk fully deserves their wins
Limerick was the one they should of won but waterford just didn't performance on the day and limerick won handy after loosing in munster
and produced a surprise victory

Brad1234 · 11-08-2015 12:57AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

The begrudgery above is from KK posters so wouldn't take much notice. Not about winning for some of them its about sticking the knife in and being caught up in all the parochial crap.

Moving onto next year I think we have no excuses for not taking a more attacking approach. Plenty of attacking options you will have Pauric Mahony back from injury, Curran and the 2 Bennett's will be a year older and more involved. Then you've Ray Barry back from the States, and a few u21s knocking on the door aswell like DJ Foran, Mikey Kearney and Colm Roche from Shamrocks is an excellent propect aswell. Throw in Maurice, Dunford, Jake Dillon, Devine, O'Halloran and please god Brick will stick around. There is so much to work with going forward and Derek McGrath has an array of talented young players coming through that some other county managers could only dream about.

Plenty to look forward too.. Great year defence have been solid all year I wouldn't change anything maybe get daniels in the side somewhere put darragh fives into centre back and look at bourke out middle of the field but that would be just an experiment id look at early next year.. If it didn't work leave it as it is..

Few ball winners needed. Foran is a name I hear being thrown around but wasn't he thrown off the senior panel a few weeks ago and he looked pretty unfit in U21. Kearney has a lot of promise but this year hasn't been good to him.. Roche is a guy I really like specially when he was centre forward in the minor side but he feels more at home down the spine of a defence.. Cormac Curran nice to see him get in the mix for next year purely for his aggression maybe he doesn't have the top speed to compete but nice to have a look and hopefully he has. Ray barry flew onto the scene with that 1-3 and I remember seeing him down in Walsh park in a minor quarter final v kk at wing back and he looked like a rolls Royce but some days you look at him and want to stick a rocket up his ass as he looks totally disinterested.. If we get the former he would be a massive addition..

Lots to build on.. Just the present group wont mind an All Ireland systems or not we need to bring more into the mix ie a bit of mongrel.

robopaddy2 · 11-08-2015 01:02AM

deiseach wrote: »

Lads, if you are going to reply to TTM, please don't include his post in your reply. Those of us who have him on ignore might end up reading his posts.

I thought when you click 'ignore user' it cuts off the replies to his post aswell? Crap.

Amprodude · 11-08-2015 01:03AM

Mountainlad wrote: »

You are a muppet

Very classy response.

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-08-2015 01:05AM

Brad1234 wrote: »

Plenty to look forward too.. Great year defence have been solid all year I wouldn't change anything maybe get daniels in the side somewhere put darragh fives into centre back and look at bourke out middle of the field but that would be just an experiment id look at early next year.. If it didn't work leave it as it is..

Few ball winners needed. Foran is a name I hear being thrown around but wasn't he thrown off the senior panel a few weeks ago and he looked pretty unfit in U21. Kearney has a lot of promise but this year hasn't been good to him.. Roche is a guy I really like specially when he was centre forward in the minor side but he feels more at home down the spine of a defence.. Cormac Curran nice to see him get in the mix for next year purely for his aggression maybe he doesn't have the top speed to compete but nice to have a look and hopefully he has. Ray barry flew onto the scene with that 1-3 and I remember seeing him down in Walsh park in a minor quarter final v kk at wing back and he looked like a rolls Royce but some days you look at him and want to stick a rocket up his ass as he looks totally disinterested.. If we get the former he would be a massive addition..

Lots to build on.. Just the present group wont mind an All Ireland systems or not we need to bring more into the mix ie a bit of mongrel.

I seen plenty of Foran for ucc and I rate him hugely as a fresher one day he was excellent against ul

A great ball winner and a work in progress yes but huge potential
I know in cork he's highly rated

Brad1234 · 11-08-2015 01:08AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'd agree

Look at jj delayney, curran, Noel Hickey, the rock, lawlor, tj Ryan and Riche McCarthy and Lohan etc all had huge clearances and imo being a tight marker more for a corner back

Full back must defend space and the d zone at all times and not mark the man but space

Cork are a prime example of poor full back play the last three years with good corner backs like o Neill and Murphy and mcdommell played full and made look poor

All the great full backs always marked the d zone most days

Brian Hogan was practically in JJ Delaney underpants the last few years such was the distance between them.. The rock regularly got cleaned out in Munster.. Performed well in Croke Park cause Curran was right in front of him in the big games. Sure he'd win a ball burst up and flatten a fella on his ass but a lot of scores were shipped off him.

If you go into every dressing room in Ireland the coach will always tell you their full back line isn't great.. You could have the best two 3 individual players in the Country in there but if they are getting Zero protection outside they'll get destroyed..

Kilkenny don't have a full back, Tipp don't have on, Limerick one is playing the old school full back that people want 'these long clearances' but regularly gets scores off him. Cork haven't had one in years.. We have one doing a really dour unflash job (which is the role) but now he isn't up to it supposedly.

Holden would have been taken to the cleaners yesterday off Shan if we picked the right ball into him instead of hail marys..

Just think the questioning of the full back is an easy answer when there are far more pressing issues to address than in our defence.. if we had the forward pressure that KK put on there would be no issue..

Brad1234 · 11-08-2015 01:09AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I seen plenty of Foran for ucc and I rate him hugely as a fresher one day he was excellent against ul

A great ball winner and a work in progress yes but huge potential
I know in cork he's highly rated

Id be setting our standards higher than the cork club championship now

Amprodude · 11-08-2015 01:12AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

You dont sound harsh but you do sound like a bellend.

Your saying a lad giving a post match interview is a sign of weakness after defeat. God forbid a fellah dosent go to ground for days and hang his head in shame. Its only a game of hurling boy lighten up

What I said was he didn't give a brief statement about the game but a full storybook analysis of Waterford and their year and he refused pretty much to keep it short. Fair enough he gave a statement but he was almost smiling because he was on TV. You never see Kerry or Killkenny doing this when they are defeated because they would be too disgusted in losing in the first place, whereas teams like Waterford have players doing full interviews after a defeat. Yous haven't beaten Kilkenny since 1958, I don't know how any of your players could be upbeat to such a statistic but end of the day some of the posters on here wilk call me a muppet and that's fine but facts are facts and the history books and Waterfords record against Kilkenny speaks for itself.

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-08-2015 01:16AM

Brad1234 wrote: »

Id be setting our standards higher than the cork club championship now

Ucc and ul isn't the cork club championship in fact it's the fresher which standard is good

Yes cork club scene is appalling as seen by sars hammering Youghal this weekend and sars regualrly beaten in munster

thinkstoomuch1 · 11-08-2015 01:19AM

Brad1234 wrote: »

Brian Hogan was practically in JJ Delaney underpants the last few years such was the distance between them.. The rock regularly got cleaned out in Munster.. Performed well in Croke Park cause Curran was right in front of him in the big games. Sure he'd win a ball burst up and flatten a fella on his ass but a lot of scores were shipped off him.

If you go into every dressing room in Ireland the coach will always tell you their full back line isn't great.. You could have the best two 3 individual players in the Country in there but if they are getting Zero protection outside they'll get destroyed..

Kilkenny don't have a full back, Tipp don't have on, Limerick one is playing the old school full back that people want 'these long clearances' but regularly gets scores off him. Cork haven't had one in years.. We have one doing a really dour unflash job (which is the role) but now he isn't up to it supposedly.

Holden would have been taken to the cleaners yesterday off Shan if we picked the right ball into him instead of hail marys..

Just think the questioning of the full back is an easy answer when there are far more pressing issues to address than in our defence.. if we had the forward pressure that KK put on there would be no issue..

Wrong in not every dressing room says their full back is not great

Kk don't or limerick

Rock was caught for pace at times but rarely conceded goals in he's prime
Riche poor year by usual standards but excellent before

Holden showed no sign being cleaned out yes he struggled at times but still held well such when Shanahan had once turned him in the ist half good pressure meant he couldn't go for goal

The Dickler · 11-08-2015 01:32AM

culbaire wrote: »

He was protected by the sweeper throughout the year. He is not a hurling full back who can make long clearances out of defense. He is a tight marker. That on its own is no longer sufficient. He must improve his hurling skills and speed to make it at intercounty level. This is not a personal attack. It is an analysis of what is required to improve him as a hurler and make a really great fullback out of him. I have never accused him of giving less than 100%. IT IS NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK.

It is a personal attack.

He is the best we have available, or do you have any suggestions. Taking every opportunity you got over the whole season to undermine him constitutes a personal attack in anyones book. We have tried and already know that Fives is definitely not a full back.
De Burca- spectacular this year. But could he contribute as much with Reid, Callinan or Canning to mark.

Amprodude · 11-08-2015 01:35AM

deisedude wrote: »

The camera did a close up of Noel Connors straight after the game and he was absolutely dejected. The fcuking begrudgery from some fcuking idiots knocking players on this thread every time we lose a game is sickening. We may have lost yesterday but it wasnt because those lads werent giving their all for the cause.

Basic errors cost you. Seeing the black and amber cost most of those errors. Simple things, tight margins, they all add up. When you feel inferior to the opposition, it results in the given team to be pressurised into making errors and thus turning over a crucial score and that's it
how most games are won. Maurice Shanahan opting to go for a point when Waterford were 5 down also suggest to me a mental weakness. Do you think Kilkenny would settle for that in the dying moments of the game? Not at all, they would try and bury it even if it wasn't possible to score.

Deise Hurler · 11-08-2015 01:41AM

CaseysRock wrote: »

...however the current style of play with scores such as 0 - 16 and 0 - 18 will not win us an all ireland.

For what its worth my team for summer 2016.

O'Keefe

Fives Connors Daniels

Mahoney De Burca Fives

Barron (Sweeper)

Dunford Gleeson

Moran Mahoney

Curran Shanahan Bennett

How can you leave Brick out?
Ok he didn't have his greatest game yesterday but he has been superb all year. His ball winning abilities and link play are essential to our forward line as a unit.
Think next year if Waterford are to progress we need to abandon the sweeper system and go more attack minded.
Most importantly we need to go for goals. Yesterday Maurice had one or two half chances of a goal but instead of taking his man on and going for it he took the easy option and tapped it over. If a Kilkenny forward gets possession that close to goal they take there man on and go for the green flag.
Hopefully Stephen Bennett has a good rest and comes back fighting fit next year. This lad is a great talent and a goal getter, however this year he hasn't looked up to the pace due to the obvious strain his injuries have taken on him. Really hope Ballysaggart, St Carthages Under 21s aren't hurling well into the winter and he is not hurling with UL in the fitzgibbon next year. What an asset a fully fit and rested Stephen Bennett would be close to goal. Management must also realise that he is not a half forward. Centre forward he was playing for the ten minutes he was on yesterday and at one stage I looked out and he was in the Half Back line. Full forward is the only place for him and if fit he could be huge for us.

Barry Coughlan has done not much wrong this year but there are still plenty of question marks about him if we didnt play the sweeper. I'd like to see a back line of

1. SOK
2. Shane Fives
3. De Burca
4. Noelie
5. Philip Mahony
6. Darragh Fives
7. Stephen Daniels

Plenty of options from the bench then in the likes of Coughlan and Paudie Pender.

Forwards like quick low ball. In midfield every time Jamie Barron gets possession he likes to go on a solo run. He needs to change his game if he is ever to make it as a top county player. Teams have already copped onto the fact that every time he gets possession he will run with and it has led to some turnovers and points conceded. The two best midfielders we have are Moran and Gleeson.

Up front, hopefully a lot of our young forwards can continue to improve. As already said Brick is essential to this unit. Was surprised Tom Devine didn't get game time yesterday. Thought he has been excellent coming off the bench for us. Would like to see forward line of
10. Stephen Bennett
11. Pauric Mahony
12. Brick
13. Maurice
14. Shane Bennett
15. Patrick Curran

with the likes of Devine, Colin Dunford and Jake Dillon(who is better played in
the full forward line) coming off the bench.

One last thing management need to be quicker making changes. If a player is not performing, they need to be ruthless and replace them quicker. No point having good subs like we do now if they aren't being brought on until deep into the 2nd half.

Here's to going two steps further in 2016.

Straight Talker · 11-08-2015 01:41AM

At the end of the day Waterford had a much better year than Cork.A league trophy in the bag and while they never looked like winning the munster final against Tipp or the match on Sunday they still competed well against both Tipp and Kilkenny this year.This is a young team at the start of it's life cycle and there will be better days ahead.I think only a serial begrudger would find too much fault with Derek McGrath.He has bought the team on leaps and bounds.He might need to be a bit more flexible with the tactics but give the guy a break.He did a fine job with the team this year and Waterford hurling has come on leaps and bounds under him.The usual cliches about bottle etc.Amprodude we were lucky not to get beaten by over 20 points by the flakiest team in the history of the GAA after the Mayo footballers.I just don't think Waterford have the firepower up front yet to take down the big teams.But they had a fine year.There is a lot to build on and Waterford hurling sure as hell is in a lot better shape than Cork hurling at the moment.

Brad1234 · 11-08-2015 01:42AM

You haven't been in too many dressing rooms so.. Pretty much guarantee that's the chat in every team talk in Ireland pull the full back around he wont like it etc..

Holden is doing the same job Coughlan is doing but he has everything but the kitchen sink around him..

Mccarthy.. Very good hurler and love his aggressive still but he plays to free for a full back in some peoples eyes but then he is considered a real full back in traditional sense.. Spoke to a few inter-county forwards who played on him and said he'll always give you a few chances if you are patient.. but that's not what the majority of people think. Problem is public perception. If your winning ball and striking balls a hundred yards a few points from the full forward will go unnoticed unless its hitting the net like this year.. Prime example this year v the dubs Mccarthy was outstanding then c awful mistake goal.. game over that's the cut throat nature of the position now he's an attacking full back but a bit leaky.. The loss was never his fault but he got the focus.. Like wise the goal where hickey should never have been in the spot and McCarthy came to take everything but ended up taking hickey and bang in the net.. Like Bourke the weekend Hickey should never have been there..

People go on about old school full backs like gods but in that day in age everything was long and high and they lorded it.. Nowadays there is more emphasis on possession and pulling people out of position.. There is hardly ever a three man full forward line until the second half when teams need to push on.. The days of old school full backs are gone and as regards our sweeper we are doing pretty much the same as every other county but ours is a bit more over exaggerated. Our real problem is we don't have a reid or a Hogan in the forwards yet who will score 5 or 6 points off scraps every time he goes out along with Maurice who is the real deal up there but needs more.. I'm hoping Curran and the bennetts will be and I believe they will but there is no guarantees.

Amprodude · 11-08-2015 01:48AM

R

Straight Talker wrote: »

At the end of the day Waterford had a much better year than Cork.A league trophy in the bag and while they never looked like winning the munster final against Tipp or the match on Sunday they still competed well against both Tipp and Kilkenny this year.This is a young team at the start of it's life cycle and there will be better days ahead.I think only a serial begrudger would find too much fault with Derek McGrath.He has bought the team on leaps and bounds.He might need to be a bit more flexible with the tactics but give the guy a break.He did a fine job with the team this year and Waterford hurling has come on leaps and bounds under him.The usual cliches about bottle etc.Amprodude we were lucky not to get beaten by over 20 points by the flakiest team in the history of the GAA after the Mayo footballers.I just don't think Waterford have the firepower up front yet to take down the big teams.But they had a fine year.There is a lot to build on and Waterford hurling sure is hell is in a lot better shape than Cork hurling at the moment.

They had a good year but not a great year. 2015 for Waterford will be remembered as the year they were beaten by Kilkenny. A sad reality for this fine Waterford setup. Sorry but moral victories with Kilkenny and Tipp dont count as honours.

Straight Talker · 11-08-2015 01:53AM

Amprodude wrote: »

R

They had a good year but not a great year. 2015 for Waterford will be remembered as the year they were beaten by Kilkenny. A sad reality for this fine Waterford setup. Sorry but moral victories with Kilkenny and Tipp dont count as honours.

I never said anything about moral victories.I was pointing out that they were a lot closer to the top two than ourselves this year and they are bringing though much better developed and coached hurlers into their senior team than our's.

HatchetMan7 · 11-08-2015 02:00AM

Amprodude wrote: »

What I said was he didn't give a brief statement about the game but a full storybook analysis of Waterford and their year and he refused pretty much to keep it short. Fair enough he gave a statement but he was almost smiling because he was on TV. You never see Kerry or Killkenny doing this when they are defeated because they would be too disgusted in losing in the first place, whereas teams like Waterford have players doing full interviews after a defeat. Yous haven't beaten Kilkenny since 1958, I don't know how any of your players could be upbeat to such a statistic but end of the day some of the posters on here wilk call me a muppet and that's fine but facts are facts and the history books and Waterfords record against Kilkenny speaks for itself.

The interview was 1 1/2 minutes long. His "storybook analysis" lasted all of two short sentences. He pretty much was saying he was grateful to Derek McGrath for what he did during the year for the team.

I can't see either where he was "almost smiling", he looked pretty downbeat to me using words like "very disappointed".
What Waterford players were "upbeat" after the game?

You are seriously reaching here, trying to find something that's not there.

HatchetMan7 · 11-08-2015 02:21AM

Amprodude wrote: »

R

They had a good year but not a great year. 2015 for Waterford will be remembered as the year they were beaten by Kilkenny. A sad reality for this fine Waterford setup. Sorry but moral victories with Kilkenny and Tipp dont count as honours.

Nobody in Waterford sees this as a moral victory. You sir are away with the fairies or your just trolling.

robopaddy2 · 11-08-2015 06:20AM

Amprodude wrote: »

What I said was he didn't give a brief statement about the game but a full storybook analysis of Waterford and their year and he refused pretty much to keep it short. Fair enough he gave a statement but he was almost smiling because he was on TV. You never see Kerry or Killkenny doing this when they are defeated because they would be too disgusted in losing in the first place, whereas teams like Waterford have players doing full interviews after a defeat. Yous haven't beaten Kilkenny since 1958, I don't know how any of your players could be upbeat to such a statistic but end of the day some of the posters on here wilk call me a muppet and that's fine but facts are facts and the history books and Waterfords record against Kilkenny speaks for itself.

If you are called a muppett its not because of the facts but because you are using a personal perception on somebody you know absolutely nothing about. Anyone who knows Noel Connors knows what he is about. Honest, whole-hearted, down to earth nice guy. Possibly one of the most positive people you could meet which is probably why he was the one who was picked to face the media. Just because one is outgoing and self assured does not make them arrogant or self-indulgent. A ferocious competitor who left nothing out on the field for his county this year and was absolutely outstanding on Sunday in my opinion. Others might hide and feel sorry for themselves but Noel picked himself up quickly and got on with it in spite of how much he would have been hurting. Hurling is important but not a matter of life and death either he is doing a PhD at the moment and was probably back up yesterday morning flat out with that. Its always been a favourite sledge of some KK people to make out Waterford players to be prima donna wannabes but you couldn't be further off the mark here.

RockyMills · 11-08-2015 09:38AM

Amprodude wrote: »

Maurice Shanahan opting to go for a point when Waterford were 5 down also suggest to me a mental weakness. Do you think Kilkenny would settle for that in the dying moments of the game? Not at all, they would try and bury it even if it wasn't possible to score.

You're wrong there anyway, didn't shefflin tap a free over in the 2012 final with about 2 minutes to go against Galway? It would have put the game beyond Galway but instead he tapped it over for a point because he didn't have the balls to take a go at the goal. It's just a pity Galway didn't go on to win that game & shefflin's fûck up wasn't punished.

Buck Melanoma · 11-08-2015 09:40AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

If you are called a muppett its not because of the facts but because you are using a personal perception on somebody you know absolutely nothing about. Anyone who knows Noel Connors knows what he is about. Honest, whole-hearted, down to earth nice guy. Possibly one of the most positive people you could meet which is probably why he was the one who was picked to face the media. Just because one is outgoing and self assured does not make them arrogant or self-indulgent. A ferocious competitor who left nothing out on the field for his county this year and was absolutely outstanding on Sunday in my opinion. Others might hide and feel sorry for themselves but Noel picked himself up quickly and got on with it in spite of how much he would have been hurting. Hurling is important but not a matter of life and death either he is doing a PhD at the moment and was probably back up yesterday morning flat out with that. Its always been a favourite sledge of some KK people to make out Waterford players to be prima donna wannabes but you couldn't be further off the mark here.

Maybe i am wrong but i dont think amprodude is from kilkenny, please dont be using him as reference to have a go at kilkenny posters.

dcrosskid · 11-08-2015 09:48AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'd agree

Look at jj delayney, curran, Noel Hickey, the rock, lawlor, tj Ryan and Riche McCarthy and Lohan etc all had huge clearances and imo being a tight marker more for a corner back

Full back must defend space and the d zone at all times and not mark the man but space

Cork are a prime example of poor full back play the last three years with good corner backs like o Neill and Murphy and mcdommell played full and made look poor

All the great full backs always marked the d zone most days

I wouldn't include Paul Curran in the list of hurling full backs, he was an excellent competitor, man marker, excellent in the air and you earned everything you got on him but his first option when in possession was usually a hand pass or short stick pass.

Buck Melanoma · 11-08-2015 09:48AM

RockyMills wrote: »

You're wrong there anyway, didn't shefflin tap a free over in the 2012 final with about 2 minutes to go against Galway? It would have put the game beyond Galway but instead he tapped it over for a point because he didn't have the balls to take a go at the goal. It's just a pity Galway didn't go on to win that game & shefflin's fûck up wasn't punished.

Well he had the balls to go for goal in 2009 when they were 5 points down, think in 2012 the match was level at the time and had a decision to make, certain lead of one point very late in game or a chance of a three point lead, i still think he did the right thing. Still didnt lose the game and we know what happened in the replay. Anyway i know its a Waterford thread so will leave at that.

dcrosskid · 11-08-2015 09:52AM

Brad1234 wrote: »

Brian Hogan was practically in JJ Delaney underpants the last few years such was the distance between them.. The rock regularly got cleaned out in Munster.. Performed well in Croke Park cause Curran was right in front of him in the big games. Sure he'd win a ball burst up and flatten a fella on his ass but a lot of scores were shipped off him.

If you go into every dressing room in Ireland the coach will always tell you their full back line isn't great.. You could have the best two 3 individual players in the Country in there but if they are getting Zero protection outside they'll get destroyed..

Kilkenny don't have a full back, Tipp don't have on, Limerick one is playing the old school full back that people want 'these long clearances' but regularly gets scores off him. Cork haven't had one in years.. We have one doing a really dour unflash job (which is the role) but now he isn't up to it supposedly.

Holden would have been taken to the cleaners yesterday off Shan if we picked the right ball into him instead of hail marys..

Just think the questioning of the full back is an easy answer when there are far more pressing issues to address than in our defence.. if we had the forward pressure that KK put on there would be no issue..

James Barry for Tipp has been excellent since he went in full back last year. Has barely put a foot out of place this year & has serious hurling ability. Anyone that remembers the 3 Thurles CBS & De La Salle matches from 07 & 08 would tell you this.

I think most people in Tipp would have James Barry over any other full back in the country at the moment. Although if Peter Kelly didn't have injury problems this year he'd probably be regarded as the best in the country as he has been very solid for the lats 4 years.

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