Dunnes workers to strike

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I can get a tshirt in dunnes

you better be quick evil mandate are putting them out of business

efb

loho wrote: »

Yes there are but they are what we refer to as evening/weekends. They are on short shifts because of the limitations that they put on themselves e.g. they are students who are only available to come in for a few hrs in the evening or there are women who for childcare reasons work around husbands / partners.

Not true I've lodger who is given 3 hour shifts during the day against his wishes

Tugboats

loho wrote: »

Yes there are but they are what we refer to as evening/weekends. They are on short shifts because of the limitations that they put on themselves e.g. they are students who are only available to come in for a few hrs in the evening or there are women who for childcare reasons work around husbands / partners.

Its great that Dunnes looks after working mothers

Dunnes Stores worker Muireann Dalton who works in the Newtownmountkennedy store told TheJournal.ie:
“We have nothing to lose. I’m on a flexi contract…so I’m in between 15 and 38 hours a week.
“I don’t care what the consequences are. I think it’s better to stand up and be counted and try and get the proper contracts for everyone in the stores rather than do nothing.
You don’t know what hours you’re doing week to week so it affects childcare, it affects loans, you can’t get a mortgage…it affects everything in your everyday life because you don’t know what you’re going to earn.

Eric Cartman

Tugboats wrote: »

you better be quick evil mandate are putting them out of business

*trying to .

Unions think they have more power than they actually have.

efb

Eric if you are self employed with no employees how are you aware of the evils of unions?

loho

efb wrote: »

Not true I've lodger who is given 3 hour shifts during the day against his wishes

I can only speak for the store I work in.

efb

loho wrote: »

I can only speak for the store I work in.

So no staff other than those mentiond are on 3 hour shifts?

efb

loho wrote: »

I can only speak for the store I work in.

Do you think the person I mentioned above had a reasonable greavence?

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

*trying to

but they arent. its in the interest of Mandate for Dunnes to do well. Look at Tesco where joining Mandate is part of the employment contract. That guarantees Mandate 10k subs every week at probably 3 or 4 quid a sub(plus hampers). They would love to get the same in Dunnes.

You dont seem to have any grasp at how business and Unions work

Eric Cartman

efb wrote: »

Eric if you are self employed with no employees how are you aware of the evils of unions?

Ive done work for companies wanting to actively monitor, discourage and quash union activities. Theres a company very active in Ireland helping employers keep the union wolves from the doors.

Tugboats wrote: »

but they arent. its in the interest of Mandate for Dunnes to do well. Look at Tesco where joining Mandate is part of the employment contract. That guarantees Mandate 10k subs every week at probably 3 or 4 quid a sub(plus hampers). They would love to get the same in Dunnes.

You dont seem to have any grasp at how business and Unions work

this is where mandate win out of it , 10k for doing practically nothing for anyone.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/23/tesco-black-day-profits-down-92 if there were no unions they could adjust staff numbers and hours to maintain profits. Tesco are far worse off because of this.

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive done work for companies wanting to actively monitor, discourage and quash union activities. Theres a company very active in Ireland helping employers keep the union wolves from the doors.



this is where mandate win out of it , 10k for doing practically nothing for anyone.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/23/tesco-black-day-profits-down-92 if there were no unions they could adjust staff numbers and hours to maintain profits. Tesco are far worse off because of this.

You cant blame a small trade Union in Ireland for what happened to Tesco. Unions had nothing to do with accountants cooking the books, directors buying new jets, bad real estate deals and the company expanding into markets they had no business in.

You've just proved that you know nothing about business.

Now answer the simple question. Why would a trade union want Dunnes to close down if they can potentially get over 30k per week in subs if the company remain in business?

Eric Cartman

Tugboats wrote: »

You cant blame a small trade Union in Ireland for what happened to Tesco. Unions had nothing to do with accountants cooking the books, directors buying new jets, bad real estate deals and the company expanding into markets they had no business in.

You've just proved that you no nothing about business.

Now answer the simple question. Why would a trade union want Dunnes to close down if they can potentially get over 30k per week in subs if the company remain in business?

the trade unions never intentionally close a business, but the leech just sucks blood till its full, it has no concern for its host, and the union leech never gets full. They keep pushing and pushing for higher pay and more holiday days and other things that cost money, until the business becomes unsustainable.

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the trade unions never intentionally close a business, but the leech just sucks blood till its full, it has no concern for its host, and the union leech never gets full. They keep pushing and pushing for higher pay and more holiday days and other things that cost money, until the business becomes unsustainable.

You said Mandate is trying to close Dunnes. Is trying not intentional?

Eric Cartman

Tugboats wrote: »

You cant blame a small trade Union in Ireland for what happened to Tesco.

from the above article :

Tesco is losing shoppers in the face of a fierce price war being waged by rivals and fast growing discount chains Aldi and Lidl. Its like-for-like sales – which exclude gains from new shopfloor space – tumbled 5.5% in the final three months of the period. Profits in the UK more than halved to £499m as falling sales and lower profit margins, on the back of a round of price cuts launched in the face of a mounting supermarket price war.

they are trying to compete in a supermarket price war, with unions , the government mandated minimum wage and a potential PR nightmare from rabble rousers, they just can't trim the fat enough to compete against the likes of lidl or aldi.

Eric Cartman

Tugboats wrote: »

You said Mandate is trying to close Dunnes. Is trying not intentional?

butterfly effect, mandate are trying to get impossible levels of pay for unskilled staff, success results in a loss of profits and nobody runs a business out of the goodness of their hearts.

nice_guy80

well that escalated quickly

Dunnes have sent in the heavy cavalry to clear things up, phew

(just to point out I've never worked in Dunnes, my gf has, though I've worked in Tesco, Supervalu, Supermacs, etc in the past and always been treated fairly enough by management

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

butterfly effect, mandate are trying to get impossible levels of pay for unskilled staff, success results in a loss of profits and nobody runs a business out of the goodness of their hearts.

Who the hell are you or me to comment on what is a fair level of pay for their staff? I wouldn't even know where to start

Eric Cartman

Tugboats wrote: »

Who the hell are you or me to comment on what is a fair level of pay for their staff? I wouldn't even know where to start

start at 0 and work up till people stop leaving / start applying for the job , thats how the value of labour is calculated

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

start at 0 and work up till people stop leaving / start applying for the job , thats how the value of labour is calculated

:rolleyes:

loho

efb wrote: »

Do you think the person I mentioned above had a reasonable greavence?

I am not saying that there are not issues and people with grevances. If you look at my previous posts I have not said that Dunnes Stores are in any way perfect. Trust me there are days I have dreaded the sight of the place but I think everyone gets that at one stage or another no matter where they work.

My question which no one seems to be able to answer is why are Mandate leading with a tag line of zero hour contracts and excessive use of temp contracts when this is not happening? Why cant this be based on genuine facts and issues?

Another huge issue is that there is so much division among the staff that this will immediately undermine anything the union are trying to achieve so why is this forging ahead? If their intentions are completely wholesome and beneficial to the staff they should have the vast majority of them backing them up but this is not the case.

Of 9000 - 10000 staff Mandate represent approx 5000. Of these 5000 only 3000 voted in the ballot. Of that 3000, 1800 voted yes. So you have a situation where 1800 people are bringing out 9000. There are also 3 stores, I think, that have SIPTU members and these are not taking part in strike.

Im not telling people not to join the union or not to strike. If you believe in fighting for something fight but again why isn't this campaign being fought for by all the workers as its apparently in their interests? Why isn't union membership nearly 100%? Why are people leaving the union in Dunnes?

efb

loho wrote: »

I am not saying that there are not issues and people with grevances. If you look at my previous posts I have not said that Dunnes Stores are in any way perfect. Trust me there are days I have dreaded the sight of the place but I think everyone gets that at one stage or another no matter where they work.

My question which no one seems to be able to answer is why are Mandate leading with a tag line of zero hour contracts and excessive use of temp contracts when this is not happening? Why cant this be based on genuine facts and issues?

Another huge issue is that there is so much division among the staff that this will immediately undermine anything the union are trying to achieve so why is this forging ahead? If their intentions are completely wholesome and beneficial to the staff they should have the vast majority of them backing them up but this is not the case.

Of 9000 - 10000 staff Mandate represent approx 5000. Of these 5000 only 3000 voted in the ballot. Of that 3000, 1800 voted yes. So you have a situation where 1800 people are bringing out 9000. There are also 3 stores, I think, that have SIPTU members and these are not taking part in strike.

Im not telling people not to join the union or not to strike. If you believe in fighting for something fight but again why isn't this campaign being fought for by all the workers as its apparently in their interests? Why isn't union membership nearly 100%? Why are people leaving the union in Dunnes?

Where arr you getting your figures from?

efb

They are on zero hour contracts
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contracts_without_specific_working_hours_zero_hours_contracts.html
If Dunnes didn't bring them in for 15 hours that's the minimum by law they must be paid so mag gets her 15 hours worth

Tugboats

loho wrote: »

Why isn't union membership nearly 100%? Why are people leaving the union in Dunnes?

As you know Dunnes don't have a closed shop policy. In the past Dunnes have made life difficult for those in a union and those trying to get a store active. I know years ago Dunnes more or less had a budget for unfair dismissals and were quite happy to pay to get rid of "troublemakers". To this day it's a big regret of mine that I never got a job there while in college. They were throwing around 8-10k payoffs like confetti

Going back to one of my earlier questions as a manager have you done anything about the bullying of your staff that you witnessed?

PopePalpatine

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive done work for companies wanting to actively monitor, discourage and quash union activities. Theres a company very active in Ireland helping employers keep the union wolves from the doors.

Ah, so you're helping greedy pricks bring back the old days of blacklisting workers who stood up for themselves?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

start at 0 and work up till people stop leaving / start applying for the job , thats how the value of labour is calculated

Did you write this from the eighteenth century?

There are different models used for establishing payment rates but this roughshod trial-and-error method isn't one of them. For starters, labour and output have a dynamic relationship, then there's management theory, and of course labour laws.

Full Marx

Tesco uses banded contracts. So too can Dunnes if they wanted to

nice_guy80

Full Marx wrote: »

Tesco uses banded contracts. So too can Dunnes if they wanted to

Exactly
And if it means less people working in the shops, but on proper hours, then so be it.

Full Marx

This Thursday, April 2nd, workers in Dunnes Stores throughout the country are coming out on a one-day strike. In essence, the dispute boils down to two urgent issues.

The first is zero/low hour contracts. Such contracts require employees to be available for work but do not guarantee hours of work. Therefore, workers cannot be assured of their income from one week to the next. And because hours and shifts change, workers cannot plan childcare, eldercare, family time or leisure.

The Dunnes Stores Workers are seeking what is called ‘banded hours’. This means people are rostered in such a manner that they are guaranteed a minimum and maximum number of working hours and, so, income.

While Dunnes Stores management might claim (if they ever went public to defend their position) they require roster flexibility, banded hours are widespread throughout the industry (e.g. Tesco, Marks & Spencer, Arnotts, Pennys, to name a few). This is from Jennifer who has worked for eight years with Tesco:

‘Unlike my Dunnes colleagues, I am much more fortunate in that I have the stability and security of a banded contract. This allows me the guarantee of 30-35 hours every week but also, it does not restrict me to 35 hours. In the event that extra hours become available, I am able to work up to and including 39 hours weekly.’

The fact is that flexibility is a diversion. Management uses the roster as an instrument of control, punishment and reward to create a compliant and submissive workforce. If you try to organise a union in the workplace or make a health and safety complaint – don’t expect too many hours next week.
http /notesonthefront. typepad.com/

From Michael Taft of UNITE

(on a side not is there a reason I don't seem to have access to any formatting buttons/tools?)

McLoughlin

Full Marx wrote: »

This Thursday, April 2nd, workers in Dunnes Stores throughout the country are coming out on a one-day strike. In essence, the dispute boils down to two urgent issues.

The first is zero/low hour contracts. Such contracts require employees to be available for work but do not guarantee hours of work. Therefore, workers cannot be assured of their income from one week to the next. And because hours and shifts change, workers cannot plan childcare, eldercare, family time or leisure.

The Dunnes Stores Workers are seeking what is called ‘banded hours’. This means people are rostered in such a manner that they are guaranteed a minimum and maximum number of working hours and, so, income.

While Dunnes Stores management might claim (if they ever went public to defend their position) they require roster flexibility, banded hours are widespread throughout the industry (e.g. Tesco, Marks & Spencer, Arnotts, Pennys, to name a few). This is from Jennifer who has worked for eight years with Tesco:

‘Unlike my Dunnes colleagues, I am much more fortunate in that I have the stability and security of a banded contract. This allows me the guarantee of 30-35 hours every week but also, it does not restrict me to 35 hours. In the event that extra hours become available, I am able to work up to and including 39 hours weekly.’

The fact is that flexibility is a diversion. Management uses the roster as an instrument of control, punishment and reward to create a compliant and submissive workforce. If you try to organise a union in the workplace or make a health and safety complaint – don’t expect too many hours next week.
http /notesonthefront. typepad.com/

From Michael Taft of UNITE

(on a side not is there a reason I don't seem to have access to any formatting buttons/tools?)

Two problems with this there is NO zero hour ontracts and there is a guaranteed a minimum number of working hours.

efb

McLoughlin wrote: »

Two problems with this there is NO zero hour ontracts and there is a guaranteed a minimum number of working hours.

I explained earlier they are by definition zero hour contracts - if they expect then to be available for up to 40 hours they must pay them 25% (15 hours) so mag makes sure they work it.call it flexi contracts if you will but they are the same thing