Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

easypazz

PCros wrote: »

Where did you get this information and figure from?

Are you not mixing up the repatriation flight that cost 300k?

300+ seats, a round trip average around €1000 return would be more than €300k, and they would have cargo on a regular flight.

So €300k is about right, even if its a guesstimate.

Dardania

easypazz wrote: »

300+ seats, a round trip average around €1000 return would be more than €300k, and they would have cargo on a regular flight.

So €300k is about right, even if its a guesstimate.

No cabin crew costs?

IngazZagni

They will definitely be making a profit on these flights.
Any airline purposly operating flights at a loss in this environment would be out of their minds.

easypazz

Dardania wrote: »

No cabin crew costs?

How much do you think cabin crew would cost?

sherology

Interesting article regarding cargo 'seat bags' for the a320: https://simpleflying.com/airbus-a320-cargo-bags/

Pat Dunne

IngazZagni wrote: »

They will definitely be making a profit on these flights.
Any airline purposly operating flights at a loss in this environment would be out of their minds.

At last someone who sees this for what it is, well said IngazZagni.
I’ve read all the “Well Done, Our Chaps” type posts and other similar jingoistic style gibberish from the EI Fanboys.
EI are not been patriotic in “rescuing” Ireland, they came up with a very clever commercial idea, at a time with they had spare capacity and are making a profit out of it.

PCros

Pat Dunne wrote: »

At last someone who sees this for what it is, well said IngazZagni.
I’ve read all the “Well Done, Our Chaps” type posts and other similar jingoistic style gibberish from the EI Fanboys.
EI are not been patriotic in “rescuing” Ireland, they came up with a very clever commercial idea, at a time with they had spare capacity and are making a profit out of it.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

On twitter everyone is praising EI but the reality of it is that the crew are flying for free and the government are picking up the flight costs...amazing PR if you can get it!

MoeJay

Is the suggestion here that Aer Lingus put all this to the HSE/Government and not the other way around....?

I didn’t see a queue of other airlines banging down the door looking to do all this lift, maybe I missed that?

PCros

MoeJay wrote: »

Is the suggestion here that Aer Lingus put all this to the HSE/Government and not the other way around....?

I didn’t see a queue of other airlines banging down the door looking to do all this lift, maybe I missed that?

I think you are missing the point here...

Also what other Irish airline have aircraft capable of flying to China?

PCros

PCros wrote: »

Where did you get this information and figure from?

Are you not mixing up the repatriation flight that cost 300k?

300k was a figure mentioned by I believe it was Simon Harris when asked or discussing the cost to hire an aircraft to operate one of these flights. It was said either early last week or late the previous week. The poster hasn’t merely plucked it out of their rear.

It relation to Pats comment, no one is doing anything for free. Everyone is still charging for services rendered. If Aer Lingus are making €1 profit they will be happy because the publicity alone is worth more than that. EI won’t be making a large profit they won’t want that to come out in the wash after the event as that would severely damage them. They certainly won’t be doing it at a loss anyway.

stephenjmcd

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before and might be a silly question.

Just looking at flight radar, why are EI running an a330 EI-DAA on dub-lhr. Are the majority of short haul just parked up now ?
Thought they might have kept a handful for the likes of this route.

Dardania

easypazz wrote: »

How much do you think cabin crew would cost?

FLight like that - maybe 10k?

Pat Dunne

MoeJay wrote: »

Is the suggestion here that Aer Lingus put all this to the HSE/Government and not the other way around....?

I didn’t see a queue of other airlines banging down the door looking to do all this lift, maybe I missed that?

You’re missing out on the long term “relationship” that EI have had with Civil Service Departments over many years and vies versa.
The HSE needed to get product into Ireland as quickly as possible, Aer Lingus had the capacity a suitable quote for the job was arrived at and hey presto.
The City West Hotel has also benefitted similarly in hiring out rooms to the HSE for Covid19 patients.
As has the Private Hospitals who are been leased by the state. With the HSE paying the day to day operating costs of these Private Hospitals.

MoeJay

PCros wrote: »

I think you are missing the point here...

Also what other Irish airline have aircraft capable of flying to China?

I totally get what is being said. The point being made is that Aer Lingus are not to be congratulated for the China freight operation as they have the neck to charge for doing it.

My point is that Aer Lingus are not the entity who originated this deal. They charge a price. The point was made earlier in this thread that there are many many other freight operators who could pick up all this. Many of those I wager operate at a lower cost on an ordinary basis. Witness the fact that Irish troop charters are mostly undertaken by non Irish operators as a comparison.

However this is not an ordinary operation. And as such, it appears that despite the many other carriers who could possibly fulfill this contract, the margin is so thin as to not make it worth their while, or the administrative headaches required to make it worth are not worth the hassle while lots of other freight contracts are available that are much simpler and drive a greater return.

So here we are. Forgive me if I don’t agree with the negativity.

They ain’t martyrs or saints, but credit where credit is due.

PCros

MoeJay wrote: »

I totally get what is being said. The point being made is that Aer Lingus are not to be congratulated for the China freight operation as they have the neck to charge for doing it.

My point is that Aer Lingus are not the entity who originated this deal. They charge a price. The point was made earlier in this thread that there are many many other freight operators who could pick up all this. Many of those I wager operate at a lower cost on an ordinary basis. Witness the fact that Irish troop charters are mostly undertaken by non Irish operators as a comparison.

However this is not an ordinary operation. And as such, it appears that despite the many other carriers who could possibly fulfill this contract, the margin is so thin as to not make it worth their while, or the administrative headaches required to make it worth are not worth the hassle while lots of other freight contracts are available that are much simpler and drive a greater return.

So here we are. Forgive me if I don’t agree with the negativity.

They ain’t martyrs or saints, but credit where credit is due.

I totally agree with you that credit is where credit is due under these circumstances.

I have nothing but praise for Aer Lingus as an airline but the general consensus is that they are doing this out of their back pocket.

Tenger

MoeJay wrote: »

.........
They ain’t martyrs or saints, but credit where credit is due.

I think this line hits the nail on the head.

I don't think anyone here assumed EI were doing this operation for free. (I certainly didn't but the massive rash of bloggers/social media posts probably did)
They are a commercial entity with the equipment and expertise in a position to provide a service to the State. It's that simple.


Why the need to be negative about it?

If a taxi driver stops to collect you in a thunderstorm do you thank them or be surly with them as they are making a profit from you?


On a related note Ryanair have stated their aircraft are available to any Euro nation that needs them. They may not get any requests but isn't it a nice gesture anyway?

Irish Steve

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before and might be a silly question.

Just looking at flight radar, why are EI running an a330 EI-DAA on dub-lhr. Are the majority of short haul just parked up now ?
Thought they might have kept a handful for the likes of this route.

I suspect that the 330 is being used for the additional freight capacity, both in terms of weight and size, being able to take freight pallets will be a benefit, there is probably significant additional post coming from the UK due to on line ordering, as well as medical supplies being shipped in and out of Ireland due to the present circumstances.

salmocab

Anyone who thought EI were doing this for free needs help. Obviously they are getting money for it, it’s still a great effort and my understanding is that staff are doing things that would not normally be countenanced. Whilst they are getting paid for this it’s still a big give on their parts. I wouldn’t quite buy into handing out sainthoods but it’s still a great effort.

MJohnston

Aren't most people praising Aer Lingus crew rather than just the airline itself? That's what I've seen. The crew deserve the praise and thanks.

Foggy43

Irish Steve wrote: »

I suspect that the 330 is being used for the additional freight capacity, both in terms of weight and size, being able to take freight pallets will be a benefit, there is probably significant additional post coming from the UK due to on line ordering, as well as medical supplies being shipped in and out of Ireland due to the present circumstances.

It looks as though BA have stopped their DUB flights from LHR. LCY airport is closed. Aer Lingus are probably picking up these flights at LHR.

goingnowhere

The global freight business is booming currently as the majority of passenger flights are stopped so the previously available space in the hold is gone, that was fairly cheap space as the flight was flying anyway.

The big carriers, Cargolux etc are full and have no capacity. We needed 10 trips a week to China to lift the stuff

If you look across EU, Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Iberia are all running cargo ops with passenger aircraft. American and Delta have done the same.

EI are almost certainly getting paid a commercial rate and the staff are working what amounts to a 30+ hour shift which would never be considered in normal conditions, there are ground staff and engineers who never leave Dublin onboard as well. This is green jersey, keeping the money in the economy and protecting jobs and companies where possible.

Ryanair, CityJet can't help, don't have the range. ASL has the aircraft and know how but is busy with its contracted business.

I imagine someone has a quote from another carrier on file to hire a 747 and the math was done to show EI was cheaper and without question the more flexible option. Also diplomatically a lot easier send the flag carrier into a country which has restrictive policies on overflights

joeysoap

Foggy43 wrote: »

It looks as though BA have stopped their DUB flights from LHR. LCY airport is closed. Aer Lingus are probably picking up these flights at LHR.

I think AL picked a few UK citizens in New York too, and brought them back to Dublin.

They picked ‘our’ citizens in Peru, so it reciprocal

sherology

PCros wrote: »

I think you are missing the point here...

Also what other Irish airline have aircraft capable of flying to China?

AerLingus haven't promoted this to my knowledge but as a 'good news story in nothing but bad news stories' and with huge benefit in solving a huge problem for healthcare workers... It gives the populus something to smile about. The media crafted it as a mercy mission. Don't be so negative!!! You get more bees with honey.

PCros

sherology wrote: »

AerLingus haven't promoted this to my knowledge but as a 'good news story in nothing but bad news stories' and with huge benefit in solving a huge problem for healthcare workers... It gives the populus something to smile about. The media crafted it as a mercy mission. Don't be so negative!!! You get more bees with honey.

Not being negative at all.

I asked a simple question because outside of this forum there is a different narrative to which Tenger alluded too.

California Dreamer

Pat Dunne wrote: »

At last someone who sees this for what it is, well said IngazZagni.
I’ve read all the “Well Done, Our Chaps” type posts and other similar jingoistic style gibberish from the EI Fanboys.
EI are not been patriotic in “rescuing” Ireland, they came up with a very clever commercial idea, at a time with they had spare capacity and are making a profit out of it.

Hence the price for the flights.

I got some information for a friend in need of large freight and after some enquiries through a couple of aero mates got a price of approx 280k from central europe to china and back to Ireland.

Problem is most cargo operations are out the door right now hence why EI being able to jump on this and collect a nice pay day.

California Dreamer

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Please have your factS correct before posting, thank you.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pat Dunne

MoeJay wrote: »

Witness the fact that Irish troop charters are mostly undertaken by non Irish operators as a comparison.

Members of the Defence Forces who go overseas are part of either UN or EU Force deployments and it is these bodies who organise the movement and repatriation of Irish Defence Forces personal. Not the Irish Government or Defence Forces.
Please have your “fact” correct before posting, thank you.

Pat Dunne

California Dreamer wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

In a previous career, I dealt with Media on a daily basis.
And trust me your comment is remarkably close to the truth.

MoeJay

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Members of the Defence Forces who go overseas are part of either UN or EU Force deployments and it is these bodies who organise the movement and repatriation of Irish Defence Forces personal. Not the Irish Government or Defence Forces.
Please have your “fact” correct before posting, thank you.

Is that of my post is not factually correct? I made no comment about who contracted the operator.

You alleged a "relationship" between EI and the Government; I countered that there is a commercial end to this, quite similar to that used for the troop charters.

Sexual Chocolate

EI-DUZ back in the air after its recent bird strike.