Foynes Line

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123216474#Comment_123216474

sufficient justification to do it has been shown

So you have access to documents which the C&AG's office does not? They said;

Neither a strategic assessment report nor a preliminary business case was prepared for the project, and the required independent expert reviews were not carried out. Government approval in principle (decision gate 1) or ahead of tendering (decision
gate 2) was not sought for a project expected to cost over €100 million.

 The final business case had not been prepared and/or published at the time the project commenced

I honestly don't know how mods accept your constant lies.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123216752#Comment_123216752

this is not correct.
the worth while projects outside dublin aren't happening because they aren't happening, the funding hasn't been agreed and the project scopes probably haven't actually been done yet.
nothing to do with foynes as foynes is only a reinstatement anyway and those projects could absolutely have been working their way along and the funding is there for them once government agree it.

dart+ and metrolink aren't being compared to foynes, rather they are being used as proof, which they absolutely are, that the claims that there will be no investment in rail because of an issue with a previous rail project which is over exaggerated by the media, have no validity any more and government trying to justify such lack of investment won't fly with the public any more.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217446#Comment_123217446

the worth while projects outside dublin aren't happening because they aren't happening, the funding hasn't been agreed and the project scopes probably haven't actually been done yet

Funding wasn't agreed and project scope wasn't defined for Foynes but here we are, in the year of intended opening with a minimum of 18 months worth of work required and costs multiples of what was estimated. You can pretend that doesn't impact other potential rail investments but it does. At a minimum there is an Opportunity Cost and the Foynes experience will likely make justifying other investments more difficult. You say "lack of investment won't fly with the public any more", the public don't like their money being wasted and Foynes will give a negative perception of rail investment.

The claim was never that "there will be no investment in rail because of an issue with a previous rail project". Of course there will be investment but IÉ don't have a blank cheque. Foynes is looking like it'll cost 4x original estimate, IÉ need to justify further capital investment funding but their credibility is gone (along with €150m+ which went into a freight line with no customers instead of improving the network).

Metrolink and DART+ are fully committed to under the NDP, have been budgeted for going back several years and have followed the necessary approvals process. They are not proof that nine figure sums will be forthcoming for rural sections of the network which is not currently budgeted for. If anything, they prove the opposite.

You seem entirely incapable of dealing with the truth and constantly make unsubstantiated claims to dismiss claims which were never made.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123206362#Comment_123206362

Why do they not have the train to Castleconnell on these maps. It's literally the only train station in Limerick outside of Colbert.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218342#Comment_123218342

Especially as there is already a token skeleton commuter service from Nenagh to Limerick?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218587#Comment_123218587

Its a weird thing to miss when we only have so few lines. I suppose it is technically "to Dublin" but it should be there.

The junction also shouldn't be just "to Dublin". It's a viable commuter stop and park &ride in its own right.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218608#Comment_123218608

Is it viable, Sixmikebridge has communter services into Limerick on the Galway train. Very few use it. Neagh has a population of just about 10k. If you add the hinterland maybe another 10k, give Castleconnell and its catchment another 10k( very doubtful). How many of those people want to get into Limerick city center every day. What is tge time spread is it 7-10am.

The rail service evenif hourly woukd ve of no use to the majority of those people. Take a nurse working in the Maternity hospital on the ennis road. That walk would be 15-20 minutes on fairly decent average fitness.

Limerick is NOT suitable for a commuter service unless you spend 2-3 billion on a rail services. It sprawls from Raheen, to Ballysimon, onto Monalee and Castletroy/UL, over to Corbally, onto Thomond, Moylish Moyross and Cahirdavin. Everywhere is nearly 3 miles+ from the city centre and Colbert Station is not even in the city centre

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218773#Comment_123218773

What do you mean "viable" ?

It already exists.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218788#Comment_123218788

Running trains cost money. Tralee and Killarney are on a railway line. Both railway stations are in the town center and you woukd have more people traveling between the two of them daily than from Nenagh into Limerick city.

You need F@@KING NUMBERS to run a rail service it's not viable otherwise. You can hardly fill a bus with those population numbers every hour not to mind 3-4 carriages of a train.

Limerick to Cork would not even work as a regular service. Neither dose Limerick to Galway. To run an hourly service at peak hours you need 150 to 200 people on every train. That means 5-600 people wanting to get from Nenagh to Limerick via Castleconnell. It's not F@@king rocket science.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218854#Comment_123218854

I honestly don't have a clue what you are in about.

Someone posted a map of the current I'll repeat current Limerick rail map.

I am saying the current train to Castleconnell which is currently running on a currently operating line should be on the current map.

So you can shout "f@@king" at me all you want about numbers because that train already exists. So I don't know why you are shouting at people like it's a hypothetical line. I said nothing about hourly or whatever.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218924#Comment_123218924

exactly, + limerick to galway is working quite well as a rail service.

sure, it had a very slow start given it opened in the pits of the recession, but now it is doing well and is apparently growing by all accounts.

limerick to cork absolutely would work as a rail service as well, no doubt about it.

if they are building a motor way between the 2 because of traffic levels, limerick to galway is working and wait for it, there is even a service between cork and tralee at certain parts of the day, then definitely scope for cork to limerick.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218924#Comment_123218924

Because it not a f@@king commuter route. There is ONE rail commuter route into Limerick. Ennis to Sixmilebride to Limerick so that is what they showed. Some people use the nation route trains to access the city. Why it's not on the proposed pie in the sky commuter maps is a different question. Maybe because even though it there it's not viable

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123219139#Comment_123219139

Well it's not a "f@@king" commute map it's. "f#@king" suburban map and people do commute in and out from Castleconnell or Nenagh on that train even if it is a sht service.

People also commute to the junction so I think they should be on the map.

I am not "f@@king" asking for extra trains or an hourly "f@@king" service so maybe you could to e down your shtty "f@@king" attitude.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218342#Comment_123218342

Bear in mind that these maps were produced in 2020. Not long before that, IE had identified the Limerick - Nenagh - Roscrea- Ballybrophy line as operating at a substantial annual loss and threatened it with closure.

Before you bite my head off, I'm not arguing the toss on this, just attempting to answer your question.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217553#Comment_123217553

You seem entirely incapable of dealing with the truth and constantly make unsubstantiated claims to dismiss claims which were never made.

Not sure why you bother. Attempts at constructive argument with that poster always remind me of G B Shaw's quip “Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123220239#Comment_123220239

That makes it even more weird. To omit live lines from a fantasy map of trains to areas don't even have tracks and probably never will.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123220255#Comment_123220255

He seems to be allowed to lie here with impunity and there are people just wanting to lap it up.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123219168#Comment_123219168

Nenagh to Limerick is part of a national rail route. If Dublin Limerick stop using Nenagh/Ballybrophy then the railwayline will not sustain any rail solution. A Urban center of 10k is not viable for a rail service.

We have been through this over the pages of this thread. The problem for Limerick city is there is no retail or business employment in tghe city center.

Board Walker

3 weeks ago i saw the two track machines marked up between Patrickswell and Raheen and the LC's looked finished track wise. I was in Adare yesterday and that section certainly has not been tamped and finished. Odd they'd go onward first. The bridge still has a sharp incline of track also so its not just the station.

seekers

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/golf/1745743/rail-boss-issues-positive-update-on-return-of-trains-to-limerick-village-for-ryder-cup-2027.html

I told ya

For the technical people, how many, if any, 071s / 201s will/would be available to work the traffic flows? Or, will new engines be required? This leads onto costs, build and delivery times, testing, new engine driver training, maintenance, maintenance staff training, workshop capacity, etc.

Then add on the rolling stock, type, quantity, training, maintenance, etc.

All this with no potential customers identified, not to mention any commitment to use the line or even any Heads of Agreement in place.

Then issue of loading/unloading at Foynes together with loading/unloading at the customers' premises. Is sufficient land available quayside in Foynes or potential for expansion to install the necessary infrastructure? Not to mention, is the potential customers' premises accessible?

Has the entire project been fully costed? Or was it just the line reconstruction that was costed?

Please, no pro/anti rail answers. Just basic project costing and evaluation.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237123#Comment_123237123

There are 10 'spare' 201s, some of which could possibly be restored to service, these being the non push-pull ones that were used on passenger workings in the loco-hauled days.

They have not been used in an ages and many have been robbed for spares at this stage.

The bigger and probably more pressing issue is lack of actual freight rolling stock - wagons, container wagons, container flats etc etc as required for whatever specific cargos turn up.

goingnowhere

NIR has 3 111 class, aka 071 in disguise out of service so that’s 3 more which could be had quickly

The Enterprise sets are to be replaced that will free up a few 201’s

Waggon order is already in progress

But the mystery of what traffic and for whom, facilities in Foynes are one thing, but you have to unload at destination also…

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237780#Comment_123237780

Hopefully the country will see sense and start importing large amounts of coal again.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123238469#Comment_123238469

Moneypoint is the only potential consumer for such and has it's own loading facilities

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123238485#Comment_123238485

And that's due to stop burning coal this year.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237780#Comment_123237780

i thought at least 2 of the 111s are still operational, is this no longer the case? 112 definitely seems to be in service anyway.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123238469#Comment_123238469

not going to happen, high expensivity coal is gone and not coming back.

renewables, gas, biomass and imported pete for a time, is what we will be using for power generation along with what we get from interconnectors.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123237123#Comment_123237123

The plan had been to replace the 071s by the end of the decade, and I would imagine with IEs plans they would looking ot increase the number of locos anyways. However those locos (which I don't believe they have even started a tender for) likely wont be in service until closer to 2030, and I think 2028 at the earliest if they begin tendering in the first half of this year.

Until then, like others have said, it is possible to find locos, although it isn't ideal. I am not sure what option is the most feasible, but if goingnowhere says its the 111 class units its probably that. Although I would be interested to see more 201s being brought back into service (I am not expecting that to happen though as like L1011 said, I don't believe they have been treated well).

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123238703#Comment_123238703

Who is Pete, where is he being imported from and what has he got to do with power generation ?