Foynes Line

ArcadiaJunction

Any rail freight traffic flows for the line mentioned yet?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123129916#Comment_123129916

No and no commercial traffic will be on it anyway. There may be a small bit of selected freight such as wind turbines but that is unlikly as well. Its a white elephant

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123129931#Comment_123129931

and will be used as an excuse as to why spending money reopening railways is a waste - which is the reason I suspect they did this. They now have a 'case study' they can point to.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123130283#Comment_123130283

Yes it may be used as an excuse but it was a Green Minister that pushed it. It was a condition for them staying in government for the last 18 months. He got department spending rules changed and split the project

This was not an act by anyone except a green act. Similar to his slowing down of the Linerick to Cork motorway. The same as the way he refused an gas licience forb5ge corrib field or the Barryrie field. He also stopped the Shannon Estuary gas storage terminal which now looks like its a necessity

Infrastructure should stand on its own merits. It's there to make citizens lives easier. It's purpose should not be to satisfy political agendas.

Green politics is like a religion. It must be all wind and solar and cannot be nuclear. Organics has stupid rules as well that make it uneconomical

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123130550#Comment_123130550

He got department spending rules changed and split the project

This part isn't accurate. The threshold for Cabinet approval increasing to €200m had nothing to do with the Foynes line project. That change came into effect a few months after award of the Foynes contract.

The Foynes line project was split to avoid going before Cabinet but that didn't stop it exceeding the then limit for Cabinet approval. The C&AG report says;

In a further note to the Minister in October 2022, the Department expressed serious
concern about the process underpinning the Foynes project, noting that the project
seemed to have become a multi-annual, significant capital expenditure project to be
delivered over three years, in the absence of any visibility on the overall project cost.
The Department’s observations were based on revised project costs submitted by
Iarnród Éireann in respect of phase 1, which had increased to €104 million following
receipt of tenders (i.e. around 2.5 times the previous estimate). The Department
pointed out that the project had not been subject to any detailed appraisal.

But you are right in that if Foynes is used to justify not reopening rail lines, it won't have been part of some complex "killing it with kindness" plan. It'll be entirely down to Ryan's willingness to flout the rules in persuit of his own delusions.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123130550#Comment_123130550

Agree with your post apart from this bit "He got department spending rules changed". He didn't, he pretty much just ignored the spending rules per the Comptroller and Auditor General's report.

Oh and I'd change the second last sentence slightly… Green politics is like a religion. It must be all wind and s…

BowWow

Latest DroneHawk update…

https://youtu.be/PV-CDUjzIhY

Foynes Railway Project - February 2025 (Adare to Limerick)

Hibernicis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-CDUjzIhY

Latest update from Dronehawk. Starts with before, during and after shots from some key features at the Western end (Foynes station, Robertstown Viaduct, N69 road overpass among others) and then a fly over the line from Adare to Raheen.

All trace of the cement siding gone from MPost 2 (Cement Factory Junction) back towards Limerick but the new track kept to one side of the alignment. Double track on the Childers Road LC. Future proofing !!

Jamie2k9

Jim Meade more or less confirmed there will be passenger services in 2027 for RyderCup. Didn't listen to the full show just say a clip. Still claims freight from mid 2026.

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/future-of-rail-in-ireland-to-be-discussed-in-limerick-today/

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123130283#Comment_123130283

this nonsense again?

the days of government using x to justify not spending on rail are gone, it isn't going to fly with the public any more.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123130550#Comment_123130550

the gas licenses weren't refused, they just weren't viable.

relying on expensive gas long term isn't going to work anyway.

nuclear is more expensive then all the other generation sources put together and is unreliable and not dependable, so the greens are absolutely correct not to want to adopt it.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123196850#Comment_123196850

What a load of rubbish you post. We will be relying on gas for tge next 50+ years to name up the down time from renewables. He r

Set conditions for Barryroe that made the project no commercially viable. He put roadblocks on Corrib tgat slowed it's exploration until last year. He stalled and stopped the liquid gas storage facility in North Kerry which now looks like the government may have to build.

I coukd go on but none if this is strictly related to thus railway. However it shows the craziness of green politics. Nuclear us no longer more expensive its a green myth. The biggest issue with electricity is stability of supply. We have nearly the highest electricity costs in Ireland so it hard not to be an agnostic with relation to someone stating other options are more expensive

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123196850#Comment_123196850

As for your first point, the Germans would disagree with you about gas as their entire economic model was predicated on it until 2022. They needed it, among other things, to back up unreliable "renewables" - as will we given we also seem to be all-in on them. Securing our gas supplies will be essential.

And the French might disagree with you on the last point - they've been producing vast quantities of cheap, zero carbon energy for decades using nuclear:
https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/FR/72h/hourly

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123197002#Comment_123197002

This has been done to death on other threads, but our high electricity pricing is related to gas prices. If we had more gas in the mix our prices would be higher.

When it comes to gas, we are a price taker not setter. We have little gas sources and next to no competition in the market for gas.

Barryroe is not viable btw, and LNG costs more than current prices we pay for pipeline gas so will see costs increase.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123196850#Comment_123196850

“nuclear is ….. unreliable and not dependable”

What utter rubbish. About as accurate as your previous on-topic claptrap

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123197024#Comment_123197024

LNG is more expensive than pipeline natural gas?

I thought that because nat gas is so cheap in the USA, than US exported LNG would still be cheaper then nat gas imported by pipeline?

Hibernicis

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2025/02/22/green-light-for-rail-improvement-plans-in-limerick/

Foynes freight line briefly mentioned in the above article.

Limerick key developments include the Limerick to Foynes Freight Line.

Upon completion, the renewed track will represent an investment in the region of just over 2151m, with the revitalisation of the 42km railway line playing a key role in the rail freight vision.

Inactive since 2001, the line is being restored to support the return of rail freight services, with freight operations expected to begin by mid-2026. Trackwork is set for substantial completion over the coming weeks while signalling and telecommunication upgrade works continue across the line.

So opening for freight traffic has slipped again and is now "mid 2026", and the projected cost latest guesstimate is now €215m, approx 20 times Iarnrod Eireann's original estimate.

Expecting the line to be operational by mid 2026 is delusional bunkum anyway given that no customers have been identified and no freight handling facilities are planned or approved.

seekers

There was a map showing possible passenger use out as far as Askeaton

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204620#Comment_123204620

Pie In the sky. population Adare is 1200 people, Askeaton is the same. The Askeaton station is a good km out of the town. There is no access to this railway at Rathkeale town.

It's not viable to run a rail service on those numbers, it not viable at double, treble or even higher numbers

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204620#Comment_123204620

There are lots and lots of maps floating around. Anyone with a pack of crayons can and often does produce them. Here are a few that IE produced for a presentation to Limerick City & County Council in 2020. Make of it what you will, it has absolutely no standing whatsoever. In relation to the Foynes line, the location of the line and stations in relation to the villages, together with the low population means that the use of the line for passenger services is unrealistic. The only route to viability I can see would be creation of a new large housing zone adjacent to the line say somewhere around Patrickswell/Adare (along the lines of the developments planned and foreseen for "greater" Carrigtwohill on the Cork Midleton line).

Map source: (an FOI Request)

https://www.irishrail.ie/Admin/getmedia/9e9570a2-2025-47b3-9f0b-65547349e0d2/IE_FOI_609-Response-Pack.pdf

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123206362#Comment_123206362

You woukd need to concentrate nearly all urban development in that area of Limerick. Even with any of the plans above no access to UL, tge industrial area in Pleassy or the population in the Monaleen area.

Thee Ballingrane station is over two km from Rathkeale. It would take 20+ years of putting virtually all housing development along the Patrickswell/Adare corridor to make it remotely viable.

You still have the issue of getting from Childers road into Colbert Station. The total population of Limerick City is 210k approx. Admittedly that would exclude the population of the Clare boroughs of Limerick City.

People have unrealistic expectations of rail. If you were planning an inter urban route for Limerick city you would not here. What annoys me is this will set other rail projects back because of its stupidity

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123206502#Comment_123206502

it won't, those days are long gone where government can use screaming from the media or sean barrot etc to not build rail.

this will have no effect on other or future rail projects as that won't fly any more with the public who expect rail improvements and investment and reopenings etc.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214205#Comment_123214205

We'll see once the final costs and timeline of the Foynes reopening are known if the public expect rail improvements and investment and reopenings etc.

For reopening currently unused lines, Foynes is likely to be the final nail in the coffin.

Rulmeq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214301#Comment_123214301

I honestly don't understand the vitriol you guys all have for this reopening. We've got this so called "ambitious" all island rail project coming up, and in order to do that we're going to need people with experience in rail building etc. So this is like a practice project for the work that needs to be done, honestly I'd prefer if they had also electrified it, and closed all the level crossings to get a better idea of the issues that we will face in the other projects. But I guess it's more important that people can cr*p all over any project that doesn't directly benefit them.

Hotblack Desiato

It's not that this project won't directly benefit them, it's that it's not clear how it benefits anyone.

A "practice project"… jeez that takes the biscuit! Why not let them practice on something that would actually be useful when it's finished?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215438#Comment_123215438

Test projects to build expertise are fairly common in the private sector for large infrastructure. The justification being that the expertise gained can make things more efficient and avoid major problems when you come to the larger more expensive projects, and as a result you actually save money.

A more recent example in this country would be Intel with their latest FABs - they built a smaller version first specifically to drive efficiencies when building the big one. The small one was not of much use by itself iirc.

In our road building campaigns in the 2000s, subsequent projects tended to fair better from a Project management perspective because of the expertise built up in the then NRA.

In an era of massive cost inflation, efficiency savings are worth more than ever. If there are lessons learned from Foynes it is much better they are learnt here rather than on something far larger like the new Navan line

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214301#Comment_123214301

they will absolutely expect them, this is a given as times have changed.
like i said, commentators screaming in the media about rail spending having any effect is at an end, luas was the last big battle where they had any chance and they lost.
then it was the wrc southern section that was to stop rail investment altogether and that failed, dart expansion and metrolink are happening.
people have had it up to here with crap public transport because of what are ultimately dynosauric beliefs, they are aware rail will cost a bit, given what has been pumped into roads it's no longer a big deal.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214369#Comment_123214369

it's basically a dieing wasp flailing around.
there is nothing to see here, a disused rail line has been reopened as sufficient justification to do it has been shown.
anyone against it had plenty of time to put forward their arguments and objections and either they didn't or they weren't justifiable objections.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123214369#Comment_123214369

Always this "stop being mean to my favourite project" nonsense. Clearly no fact based argument to be made. It is costing multiple times the original estimate and is looking like it'll be a couple of years late completing. Then it still won't be able to load/unload freight at that stage so further cost will have to be incurred if they find customers.

The idea that "this will have no effect on other or future rail projects" is very misguided. It'll be harder to justify other projects, there will be far more scrutiny. They will have to use realistic figures with Foynes likely used as a benchmark, which isn't going to help anything given the cack-handed way it was handled. The idea that it is some sort of test project is also nonsense. They ignored all procedures relating to capital expenditure and costs had increased by a factor of 2.5 at tender award (nevermind any extras during the works). Ingoring procedure and making it up as you go along only to find you don't have enough funding is totally unsurprising and there is nothing to be learned from that.

Trying to make out that people questioning the Foynes reopening are anti-rail is disingenuous in the extreme. We want to see proper, meaningful investment in the rail network. Unfortunately Foynes is likely to hinder that, but some lads got to enjoy drone videos of the project online so they are happy.

And pulling in projects like Luas Metrolink and DART+ is real desperation, they are in no way comparable. There are plenty of worthwhile rail investments outside of Dublin too but aren't even being talked about because of all the time, effort and funding that is being thrown at Foynes.

Ireland trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123216474#Comment_123216474

People should just look at the business case for justification….