Foynes Line

end of the road

i think bringing back the stored 201s is probably a non-runner now to be honest given they have been out in the elements for years and a few at least will have been stripped of everything possible, not to mention the 2 more recent withdrawn ones i think are beyond repair anyway but am open to correction.
with whatever is left you might get maybe 2 or 3 back if even that but that's likely a big ask and a massive costly task so i can't see it happening.

i think what will happen with the 111s is NIR will loan one here and there as they did it before, 112 spending a few years down here back in the 2000s.

but i can't see them selling them as they will need 1 or 2 locos for various bits and the 111s are go anywhere.

they might perhapse sell their 2 201s alright but who knows.

wait and see and watch this space and all that.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123239478#Comment_123239478

imported from germany and hauled by road i believe.

to replace our own indiginous industry which was closed down to re-wet the bogs.

goingnowhere

None of the 3 NIR 111 have turned a wheel in recent months. 112 is the best of the three as IE overhauled it and used it for a while. The support/parts/staff are in place is easy to take them into the fleet if needed and NIR would be very happy to get some £ in.

For the weights and train lengths the 071 are still suitable.

All that said the number of locos hanging around Inchicore is crazy (and thats not counting the 201's) so there is a lot of capacity in the fleet if needed.

IE management are at early stage of looking at new locomotives, there were quite taken with the Stadler class 93 go anywhere 25kv/battery/diesel

Glaceon

I’d like to see 201 reinstated and preserved for its historical significance (first loco transported by air, heaviest cargo at the time) but I’d say that all 10 are probably too far gone at this stage.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123239484#Comment_123239484

I think he knows that, but it's spelt peat, not Pete. That's the joke.

Board Walker

Restoring the 201's in Inchicore is not going to happen as they have been pilfored for parts and its costing too much to restore.

Not sure where they will get drivers either, Tara mines is going by road at the moment because they dont have the drivers for the trains. Even tho its part of their planning approval to deliver to the port by road.

I told ya

So from engines, rolling stock, loading/unloading facilities, additional workshop capacity, etc., there will be significant capital outlay in addition to the track works. Then factor in the ongoing running and maintenance costs. So what will the cost per tonne per km be?

How will it compare to road haulage, in particular where the road vehicle and/or the trailer are available 24/7/365 to earn other revenues when not hauling 'Foynes freight'?

I take it there will be a significant lead-in time for this capital expenditure and realistically, I can't see any potential customer signing up for rail freight until all the pieces are in place with a guaranteed, cost competitive service in place.

This not pro/anti rail freight, the figures have to add up. No business should be expected to pay OTT and the public purse should not be expected to finance losses for the private sector.

Has any document/report been prepared/published outlining the total capital outlay, the expected annual revenues and running costs, and most importantly (IMHO) the expected/potential customers?

I still recall almost half a century ago, as a "GIBS" (any guesses where?) and at one of the first lectures I attended, in a lecture theatre of c.180 eager first years, the question was posed, "What's the first step in business?" - identify the paying customers.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123249925#Comment_123249925

Tara Mines is off due Dublin Port having infrastructure works which blocks the trains accessing the siding for unloading

The_Wanderer

Latest update to the Foynes Line rebuild gallery, with images from the Limerick City end. Rails and Sleepers have now been completed along the complete route.
Click https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/Officialevents/2025/Foynes-Line-Reconstruction/i-jkwqqNc

thosewhoknow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123249925#Comment_123249925

Just made this account to say that Irish Rail have gotten funding for getting all 10 spare 201s back into service.

Economics101

Looking at the economics of freight operations, two related items are crucial: (i) track access charges for rail, which I understand to be relatively high in Ireland compared to elsewhare in Europe and (ii) road tax on freight trucks, especially HGVs, which I understand were drastically reduced a few years ago. Lobbying by Verona Murphy on behalf of road hauliers was apparently crucial in this.

Strange that when there is so much hand-wringing on climate change and the need to curb emissions that the balance of incentives for rail versus road freight is all wrong. Its just basic free-market economics: get prices aligned with your objectives and you will get results. Fail to do this and you are pi**ing into the wind,

I told ya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123262614#Comment_123262614

Thanks for that. 10 fully working 201s would definitely tick the engine box.

Can you point us in any direction?.. press release, website…

end of the road

in reality it would be an absolute miracle if they get all of the 10 back into service.

i will believe it when i see them out and about.

thosewhoknow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123263258#Comment_123263258

The project is still in early phases (not due to be completed till 2030) so they haven’t publicly announced anything yet, but believe me it is on the agenda. Not sure what they’ll be used for though, as they’re struggling to find work for the 071s as is, but I’d imagine it’s in preparation for the Freight 2040 strategy.

Hotblack Desiato

Scrap can be restored if money is no object… do the taxpayers paying for this boondoggle and indeed the Foynes line with no traffic boondoggle get any input at all?

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265447#Comment_123265447

why would we?

sometimes things have to be done for the greater good against the will of some people.

not always but sometimes, foynes is an example of the sometimes where it is required and just.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265447#Comment_123265447

In fairness, do you get any input on what the rest of your taxes are spent on?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265447#Comment_123265447

We live in a parliamentary democracy - that's what we elect politicians to do.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264932#Comment_123264932

If its true I think having all by 2030 isn’t achievable. The level of work in 4 years combined with various works on the existing fleet over the time.

If the DD stock is replaced in next 6-8 years, that leaves at least 5 current 201s available. It’s equally likely IVs will be gone by 2040 and that leaves the remaining 201s available.

Could well be a ploy by IE to get costs for this and it will prove purchasing new locos achieves a far better cost/benefit.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264932#Comment_123264932

I hate to ask, if its going to take that long to bring them back into service what would be the point? Maybe as a fall back if the 071 replacement fleet is delayed? But even then that would be a lot of time to spend on units that will be approaching 40 by the time they are entering service. Do we have an idea to what extent the works will be? Just enough to get them back in service? Or maybe a full refit with a hybrid power train?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123266385#Comment_123266385

Yeah, through the Public Accounts Committee I expect wasteful expenditure to be highlighted and those responsible for it to be brought before the PAC Dail committee.

This is one guy's pet project and he bent the rules beyond the point of breakage to get it through. Now somebody (who?) is calling for locos which probably should be scrapped to be restored 🙄 Some of them might be reasonably restorable but to insist they all are reinstated into service doesn't seem to make much sense given the neglect and cannabilisaiton that's gone on.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123268476#Comment_123268476

that's not you having input or say though, you or me get a say via our vote and nothing more.
no this project was a necessary project to reconnect a 10t/coore port back to the rail network which looks to have been on the cards for a bit before the greens came into power.
all that happened here was simply a different method was used then what would be needed for a brand new railway, to do what was really at heart rebuilding an existing but out of use line and refurbishing the infrastructure.
that should really be treated the same as general relaying and refurbishment of infrastructure as happens on the rest of the network unless some change is needed like rising a bridge which might require a process to go through.

but ultimately it's quite right that this should not have to go through ridiculous levels of red tape, any red tape in fact given what it really is.

Hotblack Desiato

If it's necessary then the customers must be lining up, right? So where are they?

It wasn't necessary, Ryan lied.

The requirement for a cost benefit analysis is not "ridiculous levels of red tape". It's the most basic of basic stuff and an easy bar to meet for any project worth doing.

It's funny how some people think it's OK for rules to be ignored provided it's to support the thing they want.

I told ya

In relation to the 201s, I was told by a, now retired, fitter in Inchicore, that they were not suitable for the IE network. They were designed for hauling heavy/big loads over long distances, not stop/start short distance inter city work.

His take on it, not mine.

Apparently, there were grants (EU?) available at the time, so…

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269856#Comment_123269856

And we cone back to the reality that rail freight is really for to haul freight long distances 200km+. It's not really applicable to Ireland.you are not going to be hauling goods to Limerick, Dublin or Cork to unload and place on road transport to cally it 10-50km often back in tghe sane direction it came.

The only reason I can see for this railway line is if it was to transfer freight from large ships that needed a deep port to unload for the European market but that would require a dedicated rail line either on a bridge or under the sea between Ireland and the UK

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269435#Comment_123269435

it was necessary as 10t ports must be connected by both rail and road.
ryan didn't lie.
it's a rebuilding/relaying of an existing but out of use line, wasting time on cost benefit stuff for that is pointless as relaying and rebuilding and refurbishing goes on on the railway on an ongoing basis.
if there had been no line and a brand new one was being built from scratch then yes a cost benefit could apply because it's new infrastructure.
but it's not, it's a rebuilding/relaying of an existing one, so there is nothing to see here.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269903#Comment_123269903

well that's not the reality given rail freight is being hauled a lot less then the distance you pulled out just to suit your point but is mentioned nowhere else.
the actual reality is that rail freight is hauling freight medium and long distances and in certain instances quite short distances.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123270104#Comment_123270104

Not correct and a blatant lie by you. This has been pointed out to you multiple times on this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123270115#Comment_123270115

Again incorrect and a blatant lie while there may be exceptions for bulk point to point freight like ore etc, however commercial shipping freight requires distance to make it viable and I am not even making any inference of profitability

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123269856#Comment_123269856

from what i can gather he's partially right	the 201 i believe is from the product line that brought the uk class 59 and later on the class 66 which are freight locomotives.
the 201 coming between those classes of locos	all be it the 201 is a mixed traffic loco.
i do think in hindsight they were a bad buy as they aren't really go anywhere locos like all of the other classes	but given the 001 class was being retired around that time they did need something to replace them as there probably wouldn't have been enough locos to haul the passenger services and freight services that existed at the time.

metrovick001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123250450#Comment_123250450

Thats the official spin but they simply dont want trains there