Clare Daly TD

oscarBravo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Italian criminal courts don't use juries do they?

Nope:

Italy does not try anybody by a jury of peers: everyone is judged by professional judges or by a panel of judges (three or five or nine). The only exception to the use of professional judges is in the Corte d'Assise, which is made up of eight judges: two are professional, six are lay (they are called Giudici Popolari or Popular Judges, where 'popular' means 'of the people'). All wear a sash in the national colours. They are not technically jurors, as the term is understood in Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence. In Italian, Giudice (Judge) refers both to the eight of them together as a collective body and to each of them considered separately as a member of that body.

Baggy Trousers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

She drank alcohol and drove. She was stopped for making an illegal turn. She failed to give a road side breath sample. She was arrested and brought to the station were she gave a sample. Same treatment every other person in the country would get. It's textbook.

Would this have happened to say.....Alan Shatter, Phil Hogan, Enda Kenny?

http://claredaly.ie/statement-from-clare-daly-td/

I was arrested and handcuffed on the side of the road. I objected to being handcuffed and stated that I would willingly go to the Garda station.

When I was released a female Garda told me to ‘come back when you are sober’.

I was brought in a patrol car to the Kilmainham Garda Station – within 300 metres distance. At one point I was placed in a cell on my own.

I have received the official result of the test on the urine sample provided and the result is 45 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine, which is 33% below the allowable limit – 67 milligrammes

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html

An informed source has revealed the garda who stopped Mr Shatter felt he was not fully co-operative.

She was also asked by the then Fine Gael frontbench spokesman: "Don't you know who I am?"

A GARDA report filed on the incident in which Alan Shatter was stopped at a drink-drive checkpoint has gone missing, the Irish Independent has learnt.

Mr Shatter took the breathalyser bag and blew a quick puff, which was not sufficient to inflate the device.

He is said to have again provided a quick puff, which was equally insufficient to inflate the device.

The garda told him that he hadn't done it properly and Mr Shatter is alleged to have replied: "Check your law book, it's in the Constitution, you cannot stop me, I am going."

mynamejeff

did anyone here her on the radio this morning talking about the SCC ?

She is talking the shinner line on it predictably a anti justice platform

For any politician to go on radio and sprout the non factual nonsense she did beggars belief

She insisted that Italy have much worse problems with jury intimidation and that they have a system to protect jurys that we should have instead of the SCC.

It took me about 30 seconds to google the fact that Italy almost never use jurys. A single professional judge or panel of professional judges decide cases.

Little CuChulainn

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Would this have happened to say.....Alan Shatter, Phil Hogan, Enda Kenny?

Yes. Had Shatter not taken advantage of Dáil privilege he would have. Same with that Fine Gael minister who was stopped from driving by a Garda. If Daly had claimed she was coming from the Dáil she could not have been arrested. If you have an issue with that I suggest you seek a referendum.

Baggy Trousers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yes. Had Shatter not taken advantage of Dáil privilege he would have. Same with that Fine Gael minister who was stopped from driving by a Garda. If Daly had claimed she was coming from the Dáil she could not have been arrested. If you have an issue with that I suggest you seek a referendum.

Chief, sometimes there is "procedure" and sometimes there is right & wrong.
Don't hide behind procedure.

mynamejeff

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Chief, sometimes there is "procedure" and sometimes there is right & wrong.
Don't hide behind procedure.

How failure are you with the law ?

Baggy Trousers

mynamejeff wrote: »

How failure are you with the law ?

Here we go. Another excuse merchant.

I guarantee no FG TD would have been treated like Daly.

I would not vote for her but I know the difference between right and wrong.

Bongalongherb

Ah Clare Daly, she has 4 No.1 votes coming her way from here in two weeks.

Baggy Trousers

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Ah Clare Daly, she has 4 No.1 votes coming her way from here in two weeks.

Well she's 40/1 on favourite to win a seat.

Little CuChulainn

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Chief, sometimes there is "procedure" and sometimes there is right & wrong.
Don't hide behind procedure.

Is that a joke? Are you suggesting Gardaí should break the law and falsely imprison a person because you feel it is the right thing to do? Or are you suggesting they should let Clare Daly off with drink driving just in case she feels hard done by?

Baggy Trousers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is that a joke? Are you suggesting Gardaí should break the law and falsely imprison a person because you feel it is the right thing to do? Or are you suggesting they should let Clare Daly off with drink driving just in case she feels hard done by?

You still haven't answered my question. Would a Fine Gael TD be treated the same? Reminder here;

Would this have happened to say.....Alan Shatter, Phil Hogan, Enda Kenny?

http://claredaly.ie/statement-from-clare-daly-td/

I was arrested and handcuffed on the side of the road. I objected to being handcuffed and stated that I would willingly go to the Garda station.

When I was released a female Garda told me to ‘come back when you are sober’.

I was brought in a patrol car to the Kilmainham Garda Station – within 300 metres distance. At one point I was placed in a cell on my own.

I have received the official result of the test on the urine sample provided and the result is 45 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine, which is 33% below the allowable limit – 67 milligrammes

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html

An informed source has revealed the garda who stopped Mr Shatter felt he was not fully co-operative.

She was also asked by the then Fine Gael frontbench spokesman: "Don't you know who I am?"

A GARDA report filed on the incident in which Alan Shatter was stopped at a drink-drive checkpoint has gone missing, the Irish Independent has learnt.

Mr Shatter took the breathalyser bag and blew a quick puff, which was not sufficient to inflate the device.

He is said to have again provided a quick puff, which was equally insufficient to inflate the device.

The garda told him that he hadn't done it properly and Mr Shatter is alleged to have replied: "Check your law book, it's in the Constitution, you cannot stop me, I am going."

Looks like the good folk in Dublin Fingal think the same. Political policing.

Little CuChulainn

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

You still haven't answered my question. Would a Fine Gael TD be treated the same? Reminder here;

Would this have happened to say.....Alan Shatter, Phil Hogan, Enda Kenny?

http://claredaly.ie/statement-from-clare-daly-td/










http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dont-you-know-who-i-am-what-shatter-said-to-garda-29300483.html









Looks like the good folk in Dublin Fingal think the same. Polticial policing.

I did answer. I said yes. It was the first word in my reply. If Shatter had not invoked Dáil privilege he would have had the same treatment as Daly. If Daly had invoked Dáil privilege she would have had the same treatment as Shatter.

Baggy Trousers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I did answer. I said yes. It was the first word in my reply. If Shatter had not invoked Dáil privilege he would have had the same treatment as Daly. If Daly had invoked Dáil privilege she would have had the same treatment as Shatter.

So you're saying Shatter knows more "tricks" :rolleyes:

Ok let me rephrase, on the assumption that a FG TD is not coming from the Dail, would the same treatment be dished out to a FG TD 300m from a Garda station?
Not should; would

Little CuChulainn

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

So you're saying Shatter knows more "tricks" :rolleyes:

Ok let me rephrase, on the assumption that a FG TD is not coming from the Dail, would the same treatment be dished out to a FG TD 300m from a Garda station?
Not should; would

Yes.

Baggy Trousers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yes.

I don't agree. I believe, even though I cannot prove it, that it was political policing. Designed to discredit. I thought the dawn raid on Paul Murphy by 6 Gardaí was the same.

And I voted FG for 20 years but I will never do so again.

mynamejeff

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

So you're saying Shatter knows more "tricks" :rolleyes:

Ok let me rephrase, on the assumption that a FG TD is not coming from the Dail, would the same treatment be dished out to a FG TD 300m from a Garda station?
Not should; would

legal facts presented = Ignores
police procedure explained in detail = ignores
answering specific questions = ignores
daly presents inaccurate arguments on radio=ignores

is there anything that the police can actually do right or that daly can actually do wrong in your opinion ?

Do you know the difference between a argument and a discussion/debate ?

In one you uncover the facts and make a informed decision in the other you take a side and stick with it regardless of what is said.

do you see where im going here ?

Baggy Trousers

mynamejeff wrote: »

legal facts presented = Ignores
police procedure explained in detail = ignores
answering specific questions = ignores
daly presents inaccurate arguments on radio=ignores

is there anything that the police can actually do right or that daly can actually do wrong in your opinion ?

Do you know the difference between a argument and a discussion/debate ?

In one you uncover the facts and make a informed decision in the other you take a side and stick with it regardless of what is said.

do you see where im going here ?

No. Enjoy your "procedures" though. I've made my point.

By the way, you replied and COMPLETELY ignored the question. At least Setanta answered.

Little CuChulainn

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I don't agree. I believe, even though I cannot prove it, that it was political policing. Designed to discredit. I thought the dawn raid on Paul Murphy by 6 Gardaí was the same.

And I voted FG for 20 years but I will never do so again.

Whereas I have seen many people with no connection to politics go through the exact same procedures as Daly, Murphy and Collins over the last decade so it seems to me that you think they should be subject to some special treatment because of their position and political views.

mynamejeff

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

No. Enjoy your "procedures" though. I've made my point.

By the way, you replied and COMPLETELY ignored the question. At least Setanta answered.

Well kid you weren't asking me were you ?, i was just pointing out that your question was answered by someone else .

dont know why i bothered really . your attitude towards crime is fairly clear given that you are upset about criminals being woke up in the morning by the gardai lol how terrible for them. how daly must be frustrated that she wasnt involved in that debacle too

how do you feel about her ill informed and nonsensical rant about the SCC btw ?

Baggy Trousers

mynamejeff wrote: »

your attitude towards crime is fairly clear given that you are upset about criminals being woke up in the morning by the gardai lol how terrible for them.

Bingo. There it is, just there. I got you.
Paul Murphy TD, the criminal that frequents the Dáil on a regular basis needed a dawn raid and 6 Gardaí to detain him. The criminal is still walking the streets and attending our parliament. Will he re-offend you?
That'll be all. :P

mynamejeff

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Bingo. There it is, just there. I got you.
Paul Murphy TD, the criminal that frequents the Dáil on a regular basis needed a dawn raid and 6 Gardaí to detain him.
That'll be all. :P

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

O no he has got me lads !!!!! lol

well ive seen the videos from that incident and in my opinion there was crimes taking place . therefore the people committing those acts are criminals . ya follow ?

theres a lot of people with criminal convictions in the dail . more now than ever i think .
drink driving and fraudsters mostly .

now whats your point ?

you forgot to answer my question btw ?

Muahahaha

Just had a look at the odds over on Paddy Power, they have her as the clear favourite to top the poll in Fingal which is some going given she is a first time TD. Even James Reilly who has been at this game a long time is going to get beaten by her.

So the drink driving allegations have done nothing to stop her, the people of Fingal saw it for what it was, nothing more than a nasty Garda leak designed to sleight her reputation. It hasn't worked, if anything it has backfired.

I'd also imagine her stance on abortion has helped her stand out from the more conservative FF/FG candidates in the Fingal constituency. Fingal has a lot of young families who I'd think would be more in sync with Clare Dalys views on fatal fetal abnormalities than the other candidates policy of fudging and dodging the issue.

FreudianSlippers

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yes and no. You can technically measure the number of individual user checks in a certain period by manually counting them but due to the way PULSE is operated in the stations the figure would be very inaccurate.

Clare Daly was on RTE Radio today suggesting we follow the Italian system of protecting juries and do away with the Special Criminal court.

Italian criminal courts don't use juries do they?

It's probably easier to narrow it down to countries in Europe/Scandinavia that do have juries as we'd understand them. Most do not have juries at all or at least a jury trial as we'd recognise it.

Muahahaha

How do you feel about anonymous juries or juries done by video link Freudian?

seamus

Muahahaha wrote: »

How do you feel about anonymous juries or juries done by video link Freudian?

It doesn't really solve the core issue.

On another thread, Al Capone was brought up as an example of securing the conviction of a notorious gangster with a jury.

What's interesting about that case is that a full two weeks before the trial began, a list came to the attention of the FBI with ten names on it, allegedly the jury on the case. Jury selection hadn't even begun for the case.

When the day of the trial came, the names of the "selected" jury exactly matched the list that had been acquired two weeks earlier. Think about the level of infiltration and corruption required by Capone to pull that one off.

In that case the judge outwitted Capone by simply changing the jury for another court's jury, but tricks that like will only work once, gangsters will and have used more malicious ways of tampering with juries.

Even where you have an anonymous jury watching over video link, there are a lot of people involved with the access to the names and the selection process. This is the core reason the SCC exists - if someone has enough connections, there aren't enough systems in the world to prevent jury tampering.

By definition the number of cases requiring the SCC is tiny, so upheaving the entire criminal justice system just to find ways to shoehorn juries into these trials seems excessive and unecessary.

Seth Brundle

seamus wrote: »

It doesn't really solve the core issue.

On another thread, Al Capone was brought up as an example of securing the conviction of a notorious gangster with a jury.

What's interesting about that case is that a full two weeks before the trial began, a list came to the attention of the FBI with ten names on it, allegedly the jury on the case. Jury selection hadn't even begun for the case.

When the day of the trial came, the names of the "selected" jury exactly matched the list that had been acquired two weeks earlier. Think about the level of infiltration and corruption required by Capone to pull that one off.

In that case the judge outwitted Capone by simply changing the jury for another court's jury, but tricks that like will only work once, gangsters will and have used more malicious ways of tampering with juries.

Even where you have an anonymous jury watching over video link, there are a lot of people involved with the access to the names and the selection process. This is the core reason the SCC exists - if someone has enough connections, there aren't enough systems in the world to prevent jury tampering.

By definition the number of cases requiring the SCC is tiny, so upheaving the entire criminal justice system just to find ways to shoehorn juries into these trials seems excessive and unecessary.

awaits the "yeah but Gerry's IRA leader buddy only forgot to pay a small bit of tax" line yet again.

Muahahaha

Good to see Clare Daly get elected again. I've a feeling she is going to have a huge influence on the repeal the 8th campaign during the next Dail term. She is one of the few TDs in there that has her finger on the pulse of what people want in respect of having a debate on abortion in cases of fatal fetal abnormalities, rape and incest. Overwhelmingly people want a referendum and then let the population decide the issue once and for all.

The only TDs I've heard saying that they don't want a referendum is newly elected FF Jack Chambers who is pro-life, FF Jimmy Dooley saying he doesn't think we need one and IIRC 14 Renua candidates also didn't want a referendum either but none of them got elected. I'm sure there is plenty more in FG/FF who don't want to allow the people to decide but they're keeping schtum for the time being.

Daly has the bit between her teeth on this one so the issue is only going to be amplified further this Dail term. Especially when she starts bringing in women who had to go to England and smuggle their deceased baby onto Irish Ferries in a shoe box into the the Dail committee to tell their stories.

mynamejeff

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-cleared-of-leaking-td-arrest-details-34721421.html

so it wasnt the gardai

yet still gsoc invaded a gardas private life for no reason wonder will they say sorry

or did clare set it up herself for a little public sympathy and general garda bashing as standard from this repellent troll

Satriale

mynamejeff wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-cleared-of-leaking-td-arrest-details-34721421.html

so it wasnt the gardai

yet still gsoc invaded a gardas private life for no reason wonder will they say sorry

or did clare set it up herself for a little public sympathy and general garda bashing as standard from this repellent troll

Dont you mean "it wasnt that Garda" ?

The Gardai leak to journalists every day of the week.

Little CuChulainn

Satriale wrote: »

Dont you mean "it wasnt that Garda" ?

The Gardai leak to journalists every day of the week.

Funny how Gardaí are always guilty until found innocent. Daly was the only one who gained from the leak yet it must have been Gardaí. And of course they only caught her because they were following her, not because she doesn't bother with road signage. And she was arrested for political policing, not because she had just drank whiskey and failed to provide a sample.