Leo Again

skooterblue2

[QUOTE=efb;94098917 Should the lady with Jaundice be prosecuted?[/QUOTE]

"Jaundice is a yellow discoloration of the skin, mucous membranes, and the whites of the eyes caused by increased amounts of bilirubin in the blood. Jaundice is a sign of an underlying disease process."

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/jaundice/article_em.htm

Jaundice is a symptom of liver failure.... which can be attributed to cirrhosis of the liver. This means the liver isnt working properly and the blood is being detoxified properly. Best leave the science to the boys and girls wearing the big pants. Anytime you want to come over for dinner with some real professionals you are more than welcome. It was debated and agreed it did lessen the risks but noone would back it publicly.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

"Jaundice is a yellow discoloration of the skin, mucous membranes, and the whites of the eyes caused by increased amounts of bilirubin in the blood. Jaundice is a sign of an underlying disease process."

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/jaundice/article_em.htm

Jaundice is a symptom of liver failure.... which can be attributed to cirrhosis of the liver. This means the liver isnt working properly and the blood is being detoxified properly. Best leave the science to the boys and girls wearing the big pants. Anytime you want to come over for dinner with some real professionals you are more than welcome. It was debated and agreed it did lessen the risks but noone would back it publicly.

Could you be any more patronising?

Timberrrrrrrr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

When you sign .... you sign on your honour. This has been lost to society, along with hand shakes, your word is your bond, loyalty and character.
Dont give blood as if it was a donation ... give blood as if you were giving it to your "brother"* or best friend. If you cant give them the best better not to give at all.

*Brotherhood another thing that has been lost in society. Seeing all men as brothers who we are oblidged to help under certain conditions.

So nothing to stop anyone of those (and more) people banned from donating from lying on their form and donating?

skooterblue2

B_Wayne wrote: »

'Speaking in Limerick, Mr Varadkar said he wanted to consult with a number of patient groups and to get the advise of the Department of Health's Chief Medical Officer, adding that all of their views require consideration. '

well considering how they have been treated in the past ..... how do you think Positive Action and the Haemophilia Society are going to respond?

They arent going to let that happen again.

Anyone remember we were seriously looking at reopening the Nuclear fuel debate a few years ago and we would be within 10 year of opening 3 power stations in 'Ireland. All the plans were there and pretty Liz Bonnin came on and assured us it would all be grand storing spent Nuclear fuel in the Dublin and Kerry mountains? Chernobyl could never happen again. Then Fukashima happened.

It will happen again but we can lessen the chances of it

skooterblue2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So nothing to stop anyone of those (and more) people banned from donating from lying on their form and donating?

You would want to be a fairly sick puppy to be taking chance with other peoples lives and take at least two hours out of your life to do that. but you will always get "One"

Timberrrrrrrr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You would want to be a fairly sick puppy to be taking chance with other peoples lives and take at least two hours out of your life to do that. but you will always get "One"

I have donated hundreds of times, never once has it taken 2 hours

Anyway fran seems to think the gay folks would do it and i reckon (statistically) there would be more people getting tattoos than having anal sex.

fran17 wrote: »

But this is the whole crux of the issue.As you well know there is absolutely no way of gaining statistics regarding gay men who abstained for a minimum of 12 months because you cannot prove they have abstained.An issue like this which has gigantic consequences and domino effects that will effect every facet of the system cannot be regulated by ticking a box on a form.There must be a legal deterrent,with consequences,to counter it.
I would also be very sceptical to believe that a healthy active male,be him straight or gay,would abstain from sex for 12 months to be allowed to donate blood.It would be quite upstanding if one was to but again I would be quite sceptical of it.

Timberrrrrrrr

efb wrote: »

Could you be any more patronising?

FFS Don't challenge him :mad:

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So there is nothing behind it your opinions? there isnt even a level 4 carers cert? you dodge ever question like how did the blood get contaminated the first day? Why should the people who caused the cross contamination not be prosecuted but the people who covered it up should? you have opinons but nothing else.

That is a Massive "IF" and "IF" it does happen there will be a motion of no confidence in the IBTS director, Doctors will go running for the hills saying not on my insurance. Positive Action and Haemophilia society will be screaming blue murder. Little Leo will have to go back with his tail between his legs and say "not feasible at this time". What will the Irish Haemophiliac Association say ? Nuttin cos they dont exist!!! they are anecodotal.

Miss you are talking through your hoop and you have been caught out.

Wow. you have a qualification. Go you.

And there would not be an insurance issue for doctors - the are not responsible for testing the blood they provide nobody can ever be sued for taking a chance which equates to less than one in a million.

What are your legal qualifications? Have you even got a law degree?

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

Wow. you have a qualification. Go you.

And there would not be an insurance issue for doctors - the are not responsible for the blood they provide nobody can ever be sued for taking a chance which equates to less than one in a million.

What are your legal qualifications? Have you even got a law degree?

I am like JayZee I havent passed the Bar but I am smart enough not to put myself in that position.

That is what they guys at Pelican house told each other almost 40 years ago. It wont happen to me.

skooterblue2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I have donated hundreds of times, never once has it taken 2 hours

Anyway fran seems to think the gay folks would do it and i reckon (statistically) there would be more people getting tattoos than having anal sex.

well it used to take me half an hour to get there and half an hour back and between forms and queing and chilling afterwards ...two hours dont be long racking up. Yeah you get dopes with Tatts donating before the year is up and the ones with residue of anestethics as well. I never asked but I guess they take those ones out and put them aside after being tested. Like I said there is always ONE

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I am like JayZee I havent passed the Bar but I am smart enough not to put myself in that position.

That is what they guys at Pelican house told each other almost 40 years ago. It wont happen to me.

Miss you are talking through your hoop and you have been caught out.

Though we already knew that

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

Could you be any more patronising?

I am after having breakfast and I am only warming up.... you still havent explained how the blood for the Hep C got cross contaminated. Or offered a professional opinion. Little Leo dont count as he wants to blame the big bad doctors at the IBTS and those crazy addled wenches at Positive Action for scupping his plans. I would say something about the rolling out the Haemophiliacs but its too late for them to comment now.

Little Leo wants to be Taoiseach next time around and be a gay folklore hero, as the guy who almost got it. There is no way he will put his name to a final document on it.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

well it used to take me half an hour to get there and half an hour back and between forms and queing and chilling afterwards ...two hours dont be long racking up. Yeah you get dopes with Tatts donating before the year is up and the ones with residue of anestethics as well. I never asked but I guess they tick those ones out and put them aside after being tested. Like I said there is always ONE

I thought you had a responsibility for the blood used? Where is your fear of malpractice suits?

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Little Leo wants to be Taoiseach next time around and be a gay folklore hero, as the guy who almost got it. There is no way he will put his name to a final document on it.

Yes, you are certainly taking an objective view on this based on the actual facts. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

B_Wayne

My word, Scooter started off trying to argue from authority but seems to have gone off edge now....

skooterblue2

So when is this report due back Pelican house?

Timberrrrrrrr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

well it used to take me half an hour to get there and half an hour back and between forms and queing and chilling afterwards ...two hours dont be long racking up. Yeah you get dopes with Tatts donating before the year is up and the ones with residue of anestethics as well. I never asked but I guess they take those ones out and put them aside after being tested. Like I said there is always ONE

You really have no clue do you?

http://www.giveblood.ie/Become_a_Donor/Give_Blood/FAQs/

Tattoo - I just got a tattoo. Can I give blood?

No, you will be deferred for 4 months after getting a tattoo even if removed by laser treatment during that time.[/b]

http://www.giveblood.ie/Become_a_Donor/Keeping_Blood_Safe/Safety/Safety.html

Do not donate blood for 12 months after:You have visited a malarial areaYou were pregnant or gave birth to a babyYou received an autologous blood transfusion Do not give blood for 6 months after:You have had major surgery Do not give blood for 4 months after:You have had acupuncture. However, you will not need to wait 4 months if the acupuncture was performed by a medical practitioner registered with the Irish Medical Council or,
by a registered general nurse, registered with An Bord Altranais, working for a medical practitioner who is registered as above or,
by a chartered registered physiotherapist, registered with the Irish Society of Chartered Physiotherapists. A certificate from your practitioner is no longer required.You have had a piercing, tattoo or semi permanent make-upYou have had an endoscopy[/b]

fran17

B_Wayne wrote: »

The guy from the Haemophilia Society is in favour of removing as long as based on scientific evidence. So maybe the likes of Fran should stop pretending to be representative. It will be based on scientific evidence.
www[dot]herald[dot]ie/news/patients-to-have-say-in-gay-blood-ban-varadkar-30952243.html

I asked you already,will you please stop assuming what people in this forum are thinking.Its pointless and down right irritating.

skooterblue2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You really have no clue do you?

http://www.giveblood.ie/Become_a_Donor/Give_Blood/FAQs/




http://www.giveblood.ie/Become_a_Donor/Keeping_Blood_Safe/Safety/Safety.html

Do not donate blood for 12 months after:You have visited a malarial areaYou were pregnant or gave birth to a babyYou received an autologous blood transfusion Do not give blood for 6 months after:You have had major surgery Do not give blood for 4 months after:You have had acupuncture. However, you will not need to wait 4 months if the acupuncture was performed by a medical practitioner registered with the Irish Medical Council or,
by a registered general nurse, registered with An Bord Altranais, working for a medical practitioner who is registered as above or,
by a chartered registered physiotherapist, registered with the Irish Society of Chartered Physiotherapists. A certificate from your practitioner is no longer required.You have had a piercing, tattoo or semi permanent make-upYou have had an endoscopy[/b]

That is a massive change from when I last donated. Those are new regulations and it was a year for a Tattoo and Surgery and a total ban for Acupuncture. That is a change, those are the regulations and best practices laid down by Pelican house. I would be following those guidelines.

fran17

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Have you read the findings of that report on MSM?



AMONG both men and women who have experienced a same-sex partnership, only a minority reported practising oral and anal sex.

The majority of men (70%) who have had same-sex genital contact have never either given or received anal sex and less than 10% have had anal sex ‘in the last month’.

A minority of men (33%) who have had homosexual contact reported homosexual oral sex ‘in the last year’.

17% of men who have had homosexual contact had homosexual anal sex ‘in the last year’.

27% of men who have had homosexual contact reported never having homosexual oral sex.

68% of men who have had homosexual contact reported never having homosexual anal sex.

I don't doubt your information is true Joey.However HIV rates among msm have been rising since 2004,James Reilly's response while minister for health, and the fact of the matter is that approx. 50% of all new cases diagnosed each year come from less than 3% of the population.

murrayp4

fran17 wrote: »

A 2011 UK statistical and epidemiological review of blood service policy concluded that the introduction of blood from sexually active gay men into the system could increase the risk of HIV contaminating the blood stock by up to 500%.

Link to this study?

Timberrrrrrrr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You really have no clue do you?

http://www.giveblood.ie/Become_a_Donor/Give_Blood/FAQs/




http://www.giveblood.ie/Become_a_Donor/Keeping_Blood_Safe/Safety/Safety.html



That is a massive change from when I last donated. Those are new regulations and it was a year for a Tattoo and Surgery and a total ban for Acupuncture. That is a change, those are the regulations and best practices laid down by Pelican house. I would be following those guidelines.

And if they change the time limit for the gay community to donate blood you would also have no problem right?

skooterblue2

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And if they change the time limit for the gay community to donate blood you would also have no problem right?

That is a big IF I wouldnt be waving on such a delicate "IF".
"If me Aunt had balls she would be me Uncle"

how about If the IBTS said it was ok and if the Minister said it was ok and if neither of the two patients groups (IHS and PA) had any reservations and if all the professional bodies involved (too nummerous to count) all agreed then ........ Yes I would give it my full backing.

Sorry there were so many "If"s involved I had to take of my shoes and socks to count. Just was on to home this morning. Doesnt sound like one of the Patient representive bodies will be going along quietly. Wouldnt want to pin all your hopes on an "if" and an "and". I can tell you now the consultants wont go along with it either. They are notoriously conservative and they dont like to be told what to do by Government.

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

I asked you already,will you please stop assuming what people in this forum are thinking.Its pointless and down right irritating.

It's based on what you post. You've misrepresented numerous times in this topic. I'm not exactly the first person to make this rather fair conclusion...

skooterblue2

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Better example would be organs, Im not to sure if you cant get a hip quickly you'll die. If my options were a liver from someone who drank a little vs no liver at all I think I'll take the liver.

It's not second grade, just higher risk. There is probably nothing wrong with the blood.

you never read my above post. you never heard of Johnson and Johnson recalling duPuy hips? they were made with second rate HDPE and they degraded ... in the body. A hips is supposed to last 10 years with proper care and is a massive 6 month recovery (allowing for check ups and trauma healing physio theraphy). Protrosio is when the pody rejects the impant and pushes it out of the body and is attacked by the immune system. DuPuy had to find and recover the hips in people and replace them.

Dont get me started on Stryker in Cork. the FDA have threathen to take the running of the place over a few times. Then you had the incident with the ballon stents in Galway. Remember all those abortions in Our lady of Lourdes in Louth? Faulty equipement........ I could go on all day but a dodgy medical device ...... and we havent even gottent to law suits yet.

No understanding of Medical industry

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

Wow. you have a qualification. Go you.

The usual quote from someone who has none, wanna tip medicine/Science and engineering pays the bills.

floggg

Flem31 wrote: »

I wish you would stop making up assumptions of me and posting these errors.

If the previous minister had made the same weekly comments about an issue that wont affect anyone for a year, I would have the same problem with that also. Sexuality does not affect this discussion, picking the wrong priorities does.

I never thought for a minute that they would hold onto blood for a year to test. I have a vague memory that blood has only a short shelf life and I would assume that applies whether you are testing it or you are giving it to someone as part of treatment.

I agree that once donated, and tested like other blood, it will be available for use fairly quickly.

I welcome that the Minister has released a statement this morning re legislation on reducing the cost of drugs from pharmaceutical companies.
At last, we seem to have a minister who is announcing something that might have an impact in people's health and wellbeing in 2015 and shock horror it might even be part of the 25 priorities he published 10 days ago.

My issue was never about sexuality, it was always about improving the health system.

He has been talking about it for two weeks. And he has barely mentioned it in that time.

Where is the evidence that he is treating it as a priority, rather than dealing with the issue as it arises? Is there any evidence that he expedited the matter or has insisted it be looked at as a matter of urgency?

I obviously am not quote sure what your reference to Feb 2016 was intended to mean, so please explain.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The usual quote from someone who has none, wanna tip medicine/Science and engineering pays the bills.

So does my qualification. It also hasn't made me into a self righteous dick, so thats a plus too.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is a massive change from when I last donated. Those are new regulations and it was a year for a Tattoo and Surgery and a total ban for Acupuncture. That is a change, those are the regulations and best practices laid down by Pelican house. I would be following those guidelines.

I thought you were against relaxing rules for higher risk groups?

I would Not support or encourage patients to donate if there were a risk of infection like that. The whole system could collapse very easily. I still know people who feel betrayed after the Hepatitis scandal. The Liberals cry "We can learn", we clearly they didnt and they hushed it up again. No one lost their job, pension or was publicly repremanded.

fran17

floggg wrote: »

So does my qualification. It also hasn't made me into a self righteous dick, so thats a plus too.

That's very much uncalled for floggg.Not in the spirit of debate at all.