Leo Again

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

Do you need qualifications to see the decision should be made in accordance with all available evidence and after consulting with appropriate interested parties?

or to point out hypocrisy?

Well you wouldnt want heart surgeon work on a fuse box , would you?
Or you wouldnt want a Tea lady working on an IED?
Now woould you want a fisherman working as a farmer.

So why would you want a non relevent professional commenting on something they dont have experience on or dont fully comprehend?

Yoou dont see me commenting on the Soccer forum? I havent a clue so I dont comment and leave it to more highly qualified people ..... such as yourself.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Well you wouldnt want heart surgeon work on a fuse box , would you?
Or you wouldnt want a Tea lady working on an IED?
Now woould you want a fisherman working as a farmer.

So why would you want a non relevent professional commenting on something they dont have experience on or dont fully comprehend?

Yoou dont see me commenting on the Soccer forum? I havent a clue so I dont comment and leave it to more highly qualified people ..... such as yourself.

Surely be agreeing with the outcome of a report, we are acknowledging their expertise research and knowledge in the area???

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

Only the great learned Dr should speak. Shipman and Neary were learned Doctors...

yes they were and you are a clever girl, dont forget Mengele, MJ Druitt, McCoy Watson, Jeckel and Dre as well. Yoou werent asked if you were a doctor only if had an relevent medical training. As you decined to reply I presumed you had none and couldnt grasp the concepts talked about.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

yes they were and you are a clever girl, dont forget Mengele, MJ Druitt, McCoy Watson, Jeckel and Dre as well. Yoou werent asked if you were a doctor only if had an relevent medical training. As you decined to reply I presumed you had none and couldnt grasp the concepts talked about.

Grasp the concepts? :rolleyes:

In any event, have you a degree in statistics? Otherwise how can you accurately speak on the risk level involved and whether that is acceptable?

Timberrrrrrrr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Well first I only became aware of this today and I did check and there werent any mention from Positive Action. I dont really think it is in the same league as MSM and Tattoo parlours have been striclty regulated in recent years.

I dont think it is fair on either party to compare regulating an acupuncture clinic with MSM sex either .

Oh my

*shakes head*

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

yes they were and you are a clever girl, dont forget Mengele, MJ Druitt, McCoy Watson, Jeckel and Dre as well. Yoou werent asked if you were a doctor only if had an relevent medical training. As you decined to reply I presumed you had none and couldnt grasp the concepts talked about.

Dr Dre isn't actually a doctor.

Lucyfur

MOD

For Gods sake will ye quit with the snide remarks and digs at each other.

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

Surely be agreeing with the outcome of a report, we are acknowledging their expertise research and knowledge in the area???

There is no acknowledgment of any report being received. Read it carefully again. Medical staff are more careful than legal staff at wording. they arent saying a thing until they see the report and THEN they will respond. That is their way of playing for time.
"I am looking forward to receiving the report" = I am saying nothing until I have had a chance to read it and prepare a rebuttal.

"There is a working group examining a green paper on this piece of Legislation" = There is no way I am dealing with this hot topic but it must look like I am. I am going to leave this for my sucessor.

BTW who do you think commisioned the white paper on civil partnerships? and who was his friend who he ran for election as a TD?

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

There is no acknowledgment of any report being received. Read it carelly again. Medical staff are more careful than legal staff at wording. they arent saying a ting until they see the report and THEN they will respond. That is their way of playing for time.
"I am looking forward to receiving the report" = I am saying nothing until I have had a chance to read it and prepare a rebuttal.

"There is a working group examining a green paper on this piece of Legislation" = There is no way I am dealing with this hot topic but it must look like I am. I am going to leave this for my sucessor.

BTW who do you think commisioned the white paper on civil partnerships? and who was his friend who he ran for election as a TD?

Speaking in Limerick, Leo Varadkar said he has a report from the Irish Blood Transfusion Service that presents a number of options.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/leo-varadkar-says-blood-transfusion-ban-not-a-matter-of-equality-1.2085433

And, em, what?

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

yes they were and you are a clever girl, dont forget Mengele, MJ Druitt, McCoy Watson, Jeckel and Dre as well. Yoou werent asked if you were a doctor only if had an relevent medical training. As you decined to reply I presumed you had none and couldnt grasp the concepts talked about.

Looks like you are allowed be patronising and we are not

I'm well able grasp the concepts, I'm university educated if that's what you are worried about

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

Grasp the concepts? :rolleyes:

In any event, have you a degree in statistics? Otherwise how can you accurately speak on the risk level involved and whether that is acceptable?

Actually not in statistics perse...... how about a degree that combines Medical technology, calculus, differenciation, integration, statistics, Thermofluid dynamics and destructive technology. Ballistics, Quantum Physics, electrical science and human anatomy and a seperate degree in computer science.........

I have also written reports on Vioxx, DuPuy and the Hepatitis C scandal and the break down in the system. Lecturers said they were the most comprehensive and even handed reports thay had seen that year.

For FDA approval you need a minimum of 1 in 10,000 across a sample of 30,000. Oh an I am also familiar with the TUV and FDA regulation bodies. .......... and after all that we are still waiting on your qualifications

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

yes they were and you are a clever girl, dont forget Mengele, MJ Druitt, McCoy Watson, Jeckel and Dre as well. Yoou werent asked if you were a doctor only if had an relevent medical training. As you decined to reply I presumed you had none and couldnt grasp the concepts talked about.

I am a man as you will know add I have referred to msm, please address me as such

Timberrrrrrrr

floggg wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/leo-varadkar-says-blood-transfusion-ban-not-a-matter-of-equality-1.2085433

And, em, what?

NEWS Health

Leo Varadkar says blood transfusion ban not a matter of equalityMinister for Health says any decision on gay men donating blood will be based on science

Minister for Health Leo Varadkar has said blood donation is not an issue of equality and decisions on changes in blood donor deferral for any category of people will be made on the grounds of science. Photograph: Dara Mac Donaill/The Irish Times

Kathryn Hayes

Topics:NewsHealthBrian O MahonyChief Medical OfficerLeo Varadkar

Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 13:42

First published:Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 13:42

Blood donation is not an issue of equality and decisions on changes in blood donor deferral for any category of people will be made on the grounds of science, Minister for Health Leo Varadkar has said.

Speaking in Limerick, Leo Varadkar said he has a report from the Irish Blood Transfusion Service that presents a number of options.

Mr Varadkar is considering a policy review from the Irish Blood Transfusion Service on ending the lifetime ban on gay or bisexual men donating blood.

The Minister for Health said the report requires further consideration and that his department wants to consult with patient groups and to seek advice from the Chief Medical Officer.

“I think it is important to do that first because any decision that’s made should be made on the grounds of science.

So the btsb wish to shorten the ban but Leo is saying let's wait and see what the scientists and patient groups say first? Seems to blow the whole "gay agenda" bull**** out of the water.

The Irish Haemophilia Society (IHS) has also said it believes that any change in blood donor deferral for any category of people should be based on scientific evidence.

“If the deferral can be changed, based on scientific evidence, without increasing the risk to the safety of the blood supply, then it’s acceptable.”

The ban was introduced in the mid-1980s, at a time when concern about the spread of Aids was at its height.

Timberrrrrrrr

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Actually not in statistics perse...... how about a degree that combines Medical technology, calculus, differenciation, integration, statistics, Thermofluid dynamics and destructive technology. Ballistics, Quantum Physics, electrical science and human anatomy and a seperate degree in computer science.........

I have also written reports on Vioxx, DuPuy and the Hepatitis C scandal and the break down in the system. Lecturers said they were the most comprehensive and even handed reports thay had seen that year.

For FDA approval you need a minimum of 1 in 10,000 across a sample of 30,000. Oh an I am also familiar with the TUV and FDA regulation bodies. .......... and after all that we are still waiting on your qualifications

Forgot to list your masters on codollogy i see

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/leo-varadkar-says-blood-transfusion-ban-not-a-matter-of-equality-1.2085433

And, em, what?

Seen the article this morning... he is not saying anything...... none of them are.

they are all talking but they are saying "in the best interest of the patient" and things like that.They are not saying "We are implementing this by the end of the year.". Read between the lines..... None of them are welcoming it.

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

Dr Dre isn't actually a doctor.

yes he is just not an MD ... so he is kind of like Dr Phil

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

yes he is just not an MD ... so he is kind of like Dr Phil

THE DOCTORS I QUOTED WERE MEDICAL DOCTORS

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

THE DOCTORS I QUOTED WERE MEDICAL DOCTORS

No they are not they were all struck off...... one for knocking off old dears and the other for ........ actually I am not going to say because I know someone who gave evidence at the trial and I wont comment any more about that case

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

No they are not they were all struck off...... one for knocking off old dears and the other for ........ actually I am not going to say because I know someone who gave evidence at the trial and I wont comment any more about that case

They were, at one point, PAST TENSE

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Actually not in statistics perse...... how about a degree that combines Medical technology, calculus, differenciation, integration, statistics, Thermofluid dynamics and destructive technology. Ballistics, Quantum Physics, electrical science and human anatomy and a seperate degree in computer science.........

I have also written reports on Vioxx, DuPuy and the Hepatitis C scandal and the break down in the system. Lecturers said they were the most comprehensive and even handed reports thay had seen that year.

For FDA approval you need a minimum of 1 in 10,000 across a sample of 30,000. Oh an I am also familiar with the TUV and FDA regulation bodies. .......... and after all that we are still waiting on your qualifications

Lol. Did you just post about your lecturer telling you how great you are?

I'm really happy for you.

I don't have medical qualifications or statistics - but you don't need any for a position of leave it to the experts.

Or to spot hypocrisy and double standards.

Kurtosis

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Actually not in statistics perse...... how about a degree that combines Medical technology, calculus, differenciation, integration, statistics, Thermofluid dynamics and destructive technology. Ballistics, Quantum Physics, electrical science and human anatomy and a seperate degree in computer science.........

I have also written reports on Vioxx, DuPuy and the Hepatitis C scandal and the break down in the system. Lecturers said they were the most comprehensive and even handed reports thay had seen that year.

For FDA approval you need a minimum of 1 in 10,000 across a sample of 30,000. Oh an I am also familiar with the TUV and FDA regulation bodies. .......... and after all that we are still waiting on your qualifications

Despite all your qualifications etc. you haven't provided anything evidence-based to support your opposition to this policy.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Seen the article this morning... he is not saying anything...... none of them are.

they are all talking but they are saying "in the best interest of the patient" and things like that.They are not saying "We are implementing this by the end of the year.". Read between the lines..... None of them are welcoming it.

So you read the article, but still claimed there were no reports yet?

And they are saying no decision has been made. That's it.

And could you explain your cryptic references to a white paper on CPs etc.

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

Lol. Did you just post about your lecturer telling you how great you are?

I'm really happy for you.

I don't have medical qualifications or statistics - but you don't need any for a position of leave it to the experts.

Or to spot hypocrisy and double standards.

Really!?!?!!!? you trying to get into my good books?

then if you dont understand how the two blood scandals occured, and you dont understand maths graphs , correlation and graphs..... and frequencies.... how are you going to intpret a whole report on the future of the IBTS ?
Dont see me debating over on the motor forum Car A vs. Car B, do you? Because I have no underrstanding and freely admit it so I dont get involved.
Its a tad more complex then blood gets taken tested and redistributed....... Way more serious. big boy stuff.
If you think I am being double standard.... think who would you like compiling a health report about you? Someone strict and honest or Someone who is a bit vague and well is going to tell you what you want to hear.

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

So you read the article, but still claimed there were no reports yet?

And they are saying no decision has been made. That's it.

And could you explain your cryptic references to a white paper on CPs etc.

oh yes he received it he hasnt done anything with it. I too have recieved a bill and policy document from Irish Water and I am reviewing it next time I got to the bathroom. I worked for the European Union information service when I was on summer holidays. The amount of reports we recieved and Binned was unreal, never read or accessed. He does have a policy review on the way...... and a consultative process and that is it. I seriously doubt that the IBTS initiated that conversation with the health board.

The cryptic thing about the white paper on civil unions was started by Michael Mc Dowell.... see how long it took to get from white paper to legislation (10 years ago). The TD he ran in Wexford was Colm O Gorman. See how short voters memories are. Leo is playing a smart card. He knows by the time that review gets written and reviewed by all relevent bodies.... he will be long gone, and on to greater things. This isnt going to fly with the other bodies, but by then it will be someone elses problem.

So why doesnt he release the report now for viewing?

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Really!?!?!!!? you trying to get into my good books?

then if you dont understand how the two blood scandals occured, and you dont understand maths graphs , correlation and graphs..... and frequencies.... how are you going to intpret a whole report on the future of the IBTS ?
Dont see me debating over on the motor forum Car A vs. Car B, do you? Because I have no underrstanding and freely admit it so I dont get involved.
Its a tad more complex then blood gets taken tested and redistributed....... Way more serious. big boy stuff.
If you think I am being double standard.... think who would you like compiling a health report about you? Someone strict and honest or Someone who is a bit vague and well is going to tell you what you want to hear.

I SAID LET THE EXPERTS DECIDE!

And you haven't shown yourself to be sincere and honest. You have applied different stipulations to change of rules on this matter than you do others.

And you initially started out by saying you were against the changes no matter what.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

oh yes he received it he hasnt done anything with it. I too have recieved a bill and policy document from Irish Water and I am reviewing it next time I got to the bathroom. I worked for the European Union information service when I was on summer holidays. The amount of reports we recieved and Binned was unreal, never read or accessed. He does have a policy review on the way...... and a consultative process and that is it. I seriously doubt that the IBTS initiated that conversation with the health board.

The cryptic thing about the white paper on civil unions was started by Michael Mc Dowell.... see how long it took to get from white paper to legislation (10 years ago). The TD he ran in Wexford was Colm O Gorman. See how short voters memories are. Leo is playing a smart card. He knows by the time that review gets written and reviewed by all relevent bodies.... he will be long gone, and on to greater things. This isnt going to fly with the other bodies, but by then it will be someone elses problem.

So why doesnt he release the report now for viewing?

What has Colm O'Gorman or CP got to do with anything.

I don't really see much point in responding to the rest. It's kind of hard to argue with people who claim to know with full certainty other people's motivations and futre intentions.

I prefer to deal with facts.

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

I SAID LET THE EXPERTS DECIDE!

And you haven't shown yourself to be sincere and honest. You have applied different stipulations to change of rules on this matter than you do others.

And you initially started out by saying you were against the changes no matter what.

I agree I said if the IBTS changed its policy and everyone else agreed then I would agree. Best international standards. I didnt have the information that there was a new test that shortened the infection to true positive for HIV from 3 months to 2 weeks. However this still isnt accurate enough in my opinion. Still a deeply flawed concept.

I am afraid you chastising me here is having no effect. You have shown no understanding of the workings of Blood, infections, statistics and then you tell me I have been dishonest .... have I hidden or concealed information? Have I mislead anyone? have I urged caution? Yes. Are other Nations trying it? Yes. Do I think we are competent to follow in their foots steps... hell no.

On the other hand you have been demanding professional opinions without showing your own prior learnings, and then critising mine. That is out of order. " Remember it is the recipient that takes the risk not the doner"

Kurtosis

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I agree I said if the IBTS changed its policy and everyone else agreed then I would agree. Best international standards. I didnt have the information that there was a new test that shortened the infection to true positive for HIV from 3 months to 2 weeks. However this still isnt accurate enough in my opinion. Still a deeply flawed concept.

I am afraid you chastising me here is having no effect. You have shown no understanding of the workings of Blood, infections, statistics and then you tell me I have been dishonest .... have I hidden or concealed information? Have I mislead anyone? have I urged caution? Yes. Are other Nations trying it? Yes. Do I think we are competent to follow in their foots steps... hell no.

On the other hand you have been demanding professional opinions without showing your own prior learnings, and then critising mine. That is out of order. " Remember it is the recipient that takes the risk not the doner"

You have yet to provide any substantive evidence-based or statistical reason based on this case for your opposition. You have just argued from authority and used anecdotes.

skooterblue2

floggg wrote: »

What has Colm O'Gorman or CP got to do with anything.

I prefer to deal with facts.

that was a demonstartion of how long it takes to get an idea from white paper to legislation passed by the Senate. When you want something like that done in law you have to prepared to wait a long time.

You havent got any fact you have an Irish times article that rambles and a report you admit you cant comprehend. You dont have prior learning in this field. I am sure you are wonderful at what you do ... but this aint it.

If you deal with facts? You should be able to produce them. I dont feel I have to ... they have alread been presented. if 50% of new HIV cases come from 3% of the population and growing rapidly since 2004 ? That is astonishing. That means you are dealing with a high risk group. I am done for the day.. enjoy. When this sugar storm blows full belt Leo will be long gone.

floggg

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I agree I said if the IBTS changed its policy and everyone else agreed then I would agree. Best international standards. I didnt have the information that there was a new test that shortened the infection to true positive for HIV from 3 months to 2 weeks. However this still isnt accurate enough in my opinion. Still a deeply flawed concept.

I am afraid you chastising me here is having no effect. You have shown no understanding of the workings of Blood, infections, statistics and then you tell me I have been dishonest .... have I hidden or concealed information? Have I mislead anyone? have I urged caution? Yes. Are other Nations trying it? Yes. Do I think we are competent to follow in their foots steps... hell no.

On the other hand you have been demanding professional opinions without showing your own prior learnings, and then critising mine. That is out of order. " Remember it is the recipient that takes the risk not the doner"

Funny, you are claiming expert knowledge yet it seems didn't actually know the current rules or the latest testing procedures.

And I haven't sought to debate any medical issues at all, so I am at a loss as to why you are trying to fault me on my lack of credentials in that area.

I have been pointing out double standards, hypocrisy and assumptions in your own arguments.