Property Market 2015

April 73

helimachoptor wrote: »

Full refurb

- New heating and plumbing through out
- New windows
- Insulation throughout and plastering/ painting
- 2 internal walls knocked
- Garage conversion
- 2 new bathroom suites
- all new flooring/tiling
- new kitchen
- Plastering
- New internal doors ( 2 external doors)

nearly 2 months of work

That's a lot of work in fairness. People will pay money not to have to do all that themselves & live through the upheaval.
I presume it didn't cost €100k to do it though. An asking price is just that. No guarantee it's actually achieveable.

helimachoptor

sapper wrote: »

Sounds like you made the house into a desirable family property - in my experience of the recent market family homes which tick all the boxes (large clean living spaces, large gardens etc) do still get a lot of interest when it comes to bidding.

Ive also seen a lot of high asking prices - more than likely estate agents touting for business by quoting astronomical valuations

Garden is big, 160 foot long * 33 foot wide and in good condition

April 73 wrote: »

That's a lot of work in fairness. People will pay money not to have to do all that themselves & live through the upheaval.
I presume it didn't cost €100k to do it though. An asking price is just that. No guarantee it's actually achieveable.

Agree, work didnt cost 100K, thankfully we had a relative do a lot of the work and his tradesman gave pretty competitive prices so cost was just over half that figure

helimachoptor

helimachoptor wrote: »

Was an avid follower and occasional poster of this thread throughout the year.

Offer accepted July
Planning permission pain and holidays etc delayed us, so closed in October
Renovation finished last week

EA dropped in saturday (we were in the process of moving in!!!!) to see if we wanted to sell (diff EA than who we bought from)

Adding in all of our costs, the chap still expected us to make near 100K profit..

"you do realise we have just moved in"

EA "yes and you've done a great job and made this a proper family home, people will pay money etc, we expect this to sell for total costs + 100K"

Mental ted!

You should remortgage to release the equity and then buy an investment property, perhaps in Bulgaria or Cape Verde? :rolleyes:

Seriously, congrats on getting through house-hunting, buying and renovation - probably the most hectic period of your lives! Now you can enjoy it. Christmas should be really nice.

Shedite27

I'm a first time buyer who would have loved to have done a project like that. Problem was the amount of money we'd need up front. Bank explained that we'd need to pay the deposit on the purchase price of the house (bout €60k deposit), and then cover the cost of the renovations ourselves (probably another €70k). If the final evaluation came through as we'd expected they'd release the funds to cover the renovation cost.

But as we had no way of raising the renovation cost even for a few months, we had no alternative but to buy turnkey home.

There's a lack of people in the position the poster above.

mel123

helimachoptor wrote: »

Garden is big, 160 foot long * 33 foot wide and in good condition

Agree, work didnt cost 100K, thankfully we had a relative do a lot of the work and his tradesman gave pretty competitive prices so cost was just over half that figure

Would you sell it *if* you did make a 100k profit??
Its a very tempting offer in fairness

Bob24

helimachoptor wrote: »

Was an avid follower and occasional poster of this thread throughout the year.

Offer accepted July
Planning permission pain and holidays etc delayed us, so closed in October
Renovation finished last week

EA dropped in saturday (we were in the process of moving in!!!!) to see if we wanted to sell (diff EA than who we bought from)

Adding in all of our costs, the chap still expected us to make near 100K profit..

"you do realise we have just moved in"

EA "yes and you've done a great job and made this a proper family home, people will pay money etc, we expect this to sell for total costs + 100K"

Mental ted!

You can thank that EA for opening your eyes, it is time for you to start a career as a property developer! Best job in Ireland ;-)

More seriously ... congrats and enjoy your home!

helimachoptor

mel123 wrote: »

Would you sell it *if* you did make a 100k profit??
Its a very tempting offer in fairness

Not a hope..

SarahMollie

helimachoptor wrote: »

Not a hope..

This made me smile

I love that you're able to walk away from quick money because you love your home.

I know a girl who got a site from family land to build a house with her new husband. they spend the first year of their married life living with her parents, while the new house was being built. Apparently they could have afforded to rent a 2bed apartment but didnt want to spend the money.

Once built, they were approached by an EA to sell at quite a profit. They sold, and are now still living with her parents (probably for another 12 months at least) and building again on more of her parents land (although the parents charged them for the site this time!). Whatever about not spending the extra to rent the first time, they've made a profit of €150k+ last time round, so not doing so it madness in my book.

I know from a financial POV this is probably eminently sensible, but I really don't think there is any amount of money that would persuade me to spend the first 2+ years of married life living with my parents (or in laws!) just to save money if I didnt absolutely have to.

helimachoptor

SarahMollie wrote: »

This made me smile

I love that you're able to walk away from quick money because you love your home.

I know a girl who got a site from family land to build a house with her new husband. they spend the first year of their married life living with her parents, while the new house was being built. Apparently they could have afforded to rent a 2bed apartment but didnt want to spend the money.

Once built, they were approached by an EA to sell at quite a profit. They sold, and are now still living with her parents (probably for another 12 months at least) and building again on more of her parents land (although the parents charged them for the site this time!). Whatever about not spending the extra to rent the first time, they've made a profit of €150k+ last time round, so not doing so it madness in my book.

I know from a financial POV this is probably eminently sensible, but I really don't think there is any amount of money that would persuade me to spend the first 2+ years of married life living with my parents (or in laws!) just to save money if I didnt absolutely have to.

we wouldnt do it for a few reasons

1 - hassle of renting somewhere while looking again
2 - 2nd baby due in Jan
3 - close to good schools, amenities, transport and in SCD
4 - Big garden for kids (way out of proportion for most other houses in dublin) if my maths are correct garden is about 500 sq meters
5 - wife designed the house, her cousin did the renovations (he wont put up with her twice, so that 100K will evaporate :pac: )


Finally this is our home, i'll be dying it the damn thing!

cherryghost

We are finally closing our deal on a house in Clondalkin this Friday. The seller informed me yesterday that I could keep all the furniture inside too. Delighted and utterly taken aback because I was summing up crazy amounts of money just to get the basics in

Thargor

What sort of furniture/quality did you get?

cherryghost

Thargor wrote: »

What sort of furniture/quality did you get?

Decent sofa, 2 armchairs. 3 double beds (1 of which is brand new), Fridge, bookcase, warddrobe.

Basically the fella was renting and has nowhere to put the stuff, other than sell it or give it to us. Over the moon.

Congrats cherryghost! Hope all goes well from here.

That's great about the furniture - buys you time to get things bit by bit.

You can still ask for a walk-around before collecting the keys just to make sure they aren't using this as an excuse to dump loads of junk on you. You're entitled to 'vacant possession' i.e. an empty house, unless otherwise agreed.

If you're getting furniture for free you might give some leeway if there are some things left that you'd rather not have. But our solicitor advised us that if there is a skip-load of junk to clear then they would forward the invoice for the skip to the seller's solicitor.

We were left a freezer which we presumed was working. Filled it with meat etc. from the freezer in the place we had been renting.

Two days later we realised that while the lights were on and it was humming away like a freezer should, it wasn't actually keeping the food cold! Turned out to be beyond repair and we had to buy a new one in a hurry. I'm sure there were €30-€40 worth of meat and frozen pizzas in it which were then fit for the bin.

Kept the washing machine though so that saved us a packet. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.

seamus

Appliances aren't so bad though; if you get a new one delivered, they'll take the old one away. It's the furniture that's a bitch. I had to throw out a old-style coal bunker (2mm steel, razor-sharp edges, 20kg of coal in it) when I moved in. Pain in the...

Cuddlesworth

seamus wrote: »

Appliances aren't so bad though; if you get a new one delivered, they'll take the old one away. It's the furniture that's a bitch. I had to throw out a old-style coal bunker (2mm steel, razor-sharp edges, 20kg of coal in it) when I moved in. Pain in the...

Elbow.

gaius c

cherryghost wrote: »

Decent sofa, 2 armchairs. 3 double beds (1 of which is brand new), Fridge, bookcase, warddrobe.

Basically the fella was renting and has nowhere to put the stuff, other than sell it or give it to us. Over the moon.

Ask for a walkabout on the morning of closing and check areas like the attic because once the money has gone through, you've no comeback.

handlemaster

gaius c wrote: »

Ask for a walkabout on the morning of closing and check areas like the attic because once the money has gone through, you've no comeback.

I had the attic trick alright. Not much put into it but enough

Barely Hedged

Villa05 wrote: »

You cant have a normal appetite when supply of the food source is strangled, Its cut throat not normal

Given what happened to all the inputs to the property market over the past 8 years and their residual effects that are still being felt today (for example insolvent builders), how you would have done things differently?

MarkAnthony

So when do we get to start calling each other eejits for the predictions 11 months ago. Will he have to wait for figures in Jan '16 or later?

Cuddlesworth

MarkAnthony wrote: »

So when do we get to start calling each other eejits for the predictions 11 months ago. Will he have to wait for figures in Jan '16 or later?

End of Feb I think.

El_Dangeroso

I placed a caveat on mine that it was based on full 20% deposit for everyone.

Since that didn't come to pass I am exempt from judgement

MarkAnthony

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I placed a caveat on mine that it was based on full 20% deposit for everyone.

Since that didn't come to pass I am exempt from judgement

Like it, like it - getting the excuses in early. Do you partake in motor Sport? :pac:

The_Conductor

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'll go with a 5% fall in Dublin property prices, and a 7-8% rise in non-Dublin property prices, with a broadly neutral overall picture. I'd also go with a massive uptick in the number of properties on offer- and a commensurate lengthening in sale times- which I imagine could head for the 10-12 week mark in the more vibrant markets (Dublin/Cork/Galway)- and much longer elsewhere.........

Wonder which of us will be most accurate?

This was my prediction back at the start of January.

My reading of the current situation is- we are now firmly in negative territory in the Dublin area- the only saving grace is the 'normalisation' of CSO reporting (where you get a 3 month average running tally, updated monthly- rather than monthly spot prices (as they state monthly spot prices would be disruptive and cause unnecessary comparisons while a 3 month running average contains fewer spikes and troughs)).

At best- Dublin house prices are now broadly neutral (probably negative- and becoming more so- if the 3 month averaging is removed)- and Dublin apartment prices are firmly negative- and becoming more so.

Rural property (to encompass the rest of the country- other than Dublin)- is still rising in price- but at a constantly decelerating rate- currently of around 10%- giving us a running total of an overall 7%'ish increase in property price (and this is falling).

The other prediction I made was of lengthening times to sell properties- my suggestion of 10-12 weeks- looks a little rosy right now- the times have lengthened and are now running on average at significantly more than this (though the new year may reverse this- esp. when lending institutions have 2016 waivers to play with again- though they have simply deferred some 2015 sales into 2016- to make use of these self same waivers.

On the brightside- it looks like the predictions of private sector wage growth (IBEC and ISME) have come to pass- and look set to continue in 2016. This increase in wages- with low inflation- is aiding affordability measures for a significant cohort of the market. Small scale public sector pay restoration (on average of less than 2%) due to commence in January- will add to this state of wellbeing.

Anyhow- we'll be mid-end Jan before we get 2015 outcomes to beat each other up over.........

Jaketherake

The_Conductor wrote: »

This was my prediction back at the start of January.

My reading of the current situation is- we are now firmly in negative territory in the Dublin area- the only saving grace is the 'normalisation' of CSO reporting (where you get a 3 month average running tally, updated monthly- rather than monthly spot prices (as they state monthly spot prices would be disruptive and cause unnecessary comparisons while a 3 month running average contains fewer spikes and troughs)).

At best- Dublin house prices are now broadly neutral (probably negative- and becoming more so- if the 3 month averaging is removed)- and Dublin apartment prices are firmly negative- and becoming more so.

Rural property (to encompass the rest of the country- other than Dublin)- is still rising in price- but at a constantly decelerating rate- currently of around 10%- giving us a running total of an overall 7%'ish increase in property price (and this is falling).

The other prediction I made was of lengthening times to sell properties- my suggestion of 10-12 weeks- looks a little rosy right now- the times have lengthened and are now running on average at significantly more than this (though the new year may reverse this- esp. when lending institutions have 2016 waivers to play with again- though they have simply deferred some 2015 sales into 2016- to make use of these self same waivers.

On the brightside- it looks like the predictions of private sector wage growth (IBEC and ISME) have come to pass- and look set to continue in 2016. This increase in wages- with low inflation- is aiding affordability measures for a significant cohort of the market. Small scale public sector pay restoration (on average of less than 2%) due to commence in January- will add to this state of wellbeing.

Anyhow- we'll be mid-end Jan before we get 2015 outcomes to beat each other up over.........

I had a little hobby for a few days of reading peoples previous predictions on the housing market just to see am i the only one who gets it wrong and I read the more or less exact same post from you from 2013

I cant find it now, but im sure you can find all of your own previous predictions better than i can.

If its any consolation ive been wrong in my predictions every year too, so ive given up even trying

alastair

The_Conductor wrote: »

This was my prediction back at the start of January.

My reading of the current situation is- we are now firmly in negative territory in the Dublin area- the only saving grace is the 'normalisation' of CSO reporting (where you get a 3 month average running tally, updated monthly- rather than monthly spot prices (as they state monthly spot prices would be disruptive and cause unnecessary comparisons while a 3 month running average contains fewer spikes and troughs))."

At best- Dublin house prices are now broadly neutral (probably negative- and becoming more so- if the 3 month averaging is removed)- and Dublin apartment prices are firmly negative- and becoming more so.

Rural property (to encompass the rest of the country- other than Dublin)- is still rising in price- but at a constantly decelerating rate- currently of around 10%- giving us a running total of an overall 7%'ish increase in property price (and this is falling).

The other prediction I made was of lengthening times to sell properties- my suggestion of 10-12 weeks- looks a little rosy right now- the times have lengthened and are now running on average at significantly more than this (though the new year may reverse this- esp. when lending institutions have 2016 waivers to play with again- though they have simply deferred some 2015 sales into 2016- to make use of these self same waivers.

On the brightside- it looks like the predictions of private sector wage growth (IBEC and ISME) have come to pass- and look set to continue in 2016. This increase in wages- with low inflation- is aiding affordability measures for a significant cohort of the market. Small scale public sector pay restoration (on average of less than 2%) due to commence in January- will add to this state of wellbeing.

Anyhow- we'll be mid-end Jan before we get 2015 outcomes to beat each other up over.........

Sorry to say you've been consistently wrong on your price index predictions all along this year, and worse, caught out misrepresenting the CSO data when called on it. Both Dublin house and apartment prices are firmly in the positive territory for the year to date, and there's not a hope that either will fall to anywhere near -5% by end of January. No need to wait for that inevitability to sink in. No logic in pretending 3 month averaging changes the underlying reality of ongoing price growth.

Tristram

No horse in this race myself. Just looked up the CSO Statbank for residential property price index, specifically for apartment prices and house prices in Dublin and they appear (to my eyes at least) to show an overall increase through 2015 to October. Apartment prices rose from 70.8 to 76.2 and house prices from 86.9 to 92.3. Is there other data that shows prices didn't rise or even fell?

frank_scorpio

alastair wrote: »

Sorry to say you've been consistently wrong on your price index predictions all along this year, and worse, caught out misrepresenting the CSO data when called on it. Both Dublin house and apartment prices are firmly in the positive territory for the year to date, and there's not a hope that either will fall to anywhere near -5% by end of January. No need to wait for that inevitability to sink in. No logic in pretending 3 month averaging changes the underlying reality of ongoing price growth.

anyone who believed house prices were going to fall this year , was just completely out of touch with the economic reality of the country , dublin , cork and galway are absolutely booming

the only major urban area left with real value is limerick and stuff is becoming very scarce

I Am The Law

frank_scorpio wrote: »

anyone who believed house prices were going to fall this year , was just completely out of touch with the economic reality of the country , dublin , cork and galway are absolutely booming

the only major urban area left with real value is limerick and stuff is becoming very scarce

I'd really like to know where this misinformation comes from and why it gets repeated on here so often? Second part is correct as there is a major shortage of stock for sale which is why there is extremely poor value to be had in Limerick. This is even more apparent when you compare house prices to the low wages levels of some of new jobs announced in Limerick in recent times. I just can't see how young people, couples or otherwise will ever be able to afford to buy homes in the future with the constant aspiration of people to return the nonsense of the "absolutely booming" type of narrative we are so familiar with on this thread. Looks like we are in for another year of "talk it up, talk it up" for 2016.

I Am The Law

junk_hoarder wrote: »

i dont know what your benchmark is but limerick is at least 30% cheaper than galway , 35 % cheaper than cork , 60% cheaper than dublin and around 20% cheaper than any of the major commuter towns in kildare , meath or wicklow

are you comparing it to the midlands or the north west ?

My benchmark is trying to find a house to buy for the last 14 months, could you expand on the mix of properties in your generalized percentages above, consider the following heading house age, condition, location, no. of beds and so on. Also factor in annual income levels, central bank rules and cash buyers.